2300 Sq Ft Garage - Detailing Studio / Photo Studio / Movie Theater Convertible - Advice? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 18 Old 03-22-2013, 09:59 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ahheck01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I've got a 2300 Sq Ft Garage in which I run a detailing studio. About 1300sq ft of that will be sectioned off with a black curtain (the horizontal line in the middle of the room) part of the time, and used as a photo studio for cars and other large objects. The ceilings are 14 feet. Here's the rough floor plan for the business functions of the space:


The overall rectangle is 50x60, so the 2300sq ft doesn't include bathrooms and break room. The blue rectangles are the dimensions of a 2013 honda accord.


Now, in the evenings, the flat (which is basically a 10' by 20' frame with a white piece of spandex stretched over it, which is conveniently the material commonly used for DIY projector screens), can be dropped down against the west (left) wall. I have a BenQ w1080st on its way.


So I'd like a speaker system that can be used for the theater, and also be used for music for the studios during the day. So the theater space at 1300 sq ft, 14 foot ceilings, that's 18,200 cubic feet. That's a lot of space - even more when you consider that there's just a curtain separating that from another 14,000 cubic feet.

I'll drop the bomb right now... I'm a bit budget conscious. I know I could easily spend $10k to get this done, but that's why I'm thinking DIY - what's the best bang for the buck for filling this space with decent quality sound? The ceilings are insulation sealed in plastic, and the floors are concrete with an epoxy coating. I'll probably have some fabric along the drywall walls to help get rid of the echoing.

So what's the most efficient approach here? I would imagine using tapped horn subwoofers, but this is still fairly new territory for me.


Here's roughly what the setup would look like in the theater section:



The brown squares are chairs and the green rectangle is the ping pong table.

Gosh I love ping pong.

Anyway, thoughts?
ahheck01 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 Old 03-22-2013, 10:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,663
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 293 Post(s)
Liked: 536
What's the listening distance and desired SPL? Do you like it pretty loud, or just casual background music and the occasional rom com. How much space do you have for speakers? Want to go in-wall? That setup looks like that could work, especially if you don't want big clunky speakers in the way of your work area.

Horn subs are a good idea. Hides the woofer from being damaged too.
tuxedocivic is online now  
post #3 of 18 Old 03-22-2013, 10:15 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ahheck01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

What's the listening distance and desired SPL? Do you like it pretty loud, or just casual background music and the occasional rom com. How much space do you have for speakers? Want to go in-wall? That setup looks like that could work, especially if you don't want big clunky speakers in the way of your work area.

Horn subs are a good idea. Hides the woofer from being damaged too.

If there's no major downside, I'd probably hang the speakers from the ceiling actually. Keeps it off the floor, but I don't think I want to do in-wall.

As for SPL? I'd like to really impress people (including myself) with a great theater experience. It doesn't have to be insanely over-the-top audiophile quality music, but it would be nice to have pretty good range coverage for listening during the day.
ahheck01 is offline  
post #4 of 18 Old 03-23-2013, 06:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
petew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Albuquerque, NM USA
Posts: 2,051
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 41
If you haven't run across this thread it's worth a look.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1342983/building-a-dinner-theater-w-diy-speakers-subs-etc




High Desert Theater -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Building Bass - 
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Surrounds -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Storage -
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

petew is offline  
post #5 of 18 Old 04-04-2013, 07:14 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ahheck01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post

If you haven't run across this thread it's worth a look.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1342983/building-a-dinner-theater-w-diy-speakers-subs-etc




It doesn't seem like that's too far off, though the thread is really hard to follow. I'm not sure if I should use what he uses and why - he doesn't go through his decision making process as much as shows "here's what I did".
ahheck01 is offline  
post #6 of 18 Old 04-05-2013, 07:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
djkest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
12" Fusion Tempests. smile.gif

Resonably priced, play loud, sound good. Not too huge.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
;
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
;

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
djkest is offline  
post #7 of 18 Old 04-05-2013, 08:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coctostan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Indy
Posts: 1,960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 128
Are you looking for 2-channel + sub or full surround?

Either way, for the fronts, I would suggest something like these: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-series-kits/fusion15-kit.html

If that is too much for your budget you could do these: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-series-kits/fusion12-kit.html

For surrounds I would go with these: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/alpha-series-kits/alpha8-kit.html

All of these could be "flown" which basically means you would hang them from the upper corners angled down at the audience.

Given the sensitivity of these speakers you should be able to stick to receiver power, even in your large room. If you wanted, you could upgrade to separate amps for the front speakers.

As far as subs go, you will definitely want either a pro woofer in a large vented cabinet or some sort of a horn design. I'm not up on what the latest horn designs are. These could also be hung at the ceiling to wall junction to save floor space. Others can probably chime in with better suggestions on the subwoofer part.

That is what I would do if you want to do DIY. The other option would be to buy some good quality PA monitors like QSC K12's or KW122s. The K12's are around $850ea and are powered monitors. You could use K8s for surrounds for around $600ea.

They are similar to the kits above although not quite as refined. I'm just putting that out as an option. You would probably still want DIY subs because most pro subs only reach about 35hz.
coctostan is offline  
post #8 of 18 Old 04-05-2013, 01:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Looneybomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 4,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 23
I saw garage audio and my first thought was Cerwin Vega speakers on craigslist. This is a step up it looks like. Go with horn designs and get lots of ceiling and wall treatments in there.

YID DIY
Looneybomber is offline  
post #9 of 18 Old 04-05-2013, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ahheck01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

Are you looking for 2-channel + sub or full surround?

Either way, for the fronts, I would suggest something like these: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-series-kits/fusion15-kit.html

If that is too much for your budget you could do these: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-series-kits/fusion12-kit.html

For surrounds I would go with these: http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/alpha-series-kits/alpha8-kit.html

All of these could be "flown" which basically means you would hang them from the upper corners angled down at the audience.

Given the sensitivity of these speakers you should be able to stick to receiver power, even in your large room. If you wanted, you could upgrade to separate amps for the front speakers.

As far as subs go, you will definitely want either a pro woofer in a large vented cabinet or some sort of a horn design. I'm not up on what the latest horn designs are. These could also be hung at the ceiling to wall junction to save floor space. Others can probably chime in with better suggestions on the subwoofer part.

That is what I would do if you want to do DIY. The other option would be to buy some good quality PA monitors like QSC K12's or KW122s. The K12's are around $850ea and are powered monitors. You could use K8s for surrounds for around $600ea.

They are similar to the kits above although not quite as refined. I'm just putting that out as an option. You would probably still want DIY subs because most pro subs only reach about 35hz.

Thanks for the advice! What would be an extraordinarily cost-effective way to treat the walls and ceilings?
ahheck01 is offline  
post #10 of 18 Old 04-05-2013, 07:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Looneybomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 4,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Old carpet (after steam cleaning it)?

YID DIY
Looneybomber is offline  
post #11 of 18 Old 04-05-2013, 08:11 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ahheck01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

Old carpet (after steam cleaning it)?

Would it have to be full coverage, or would a pattern of patches work?

Since it's a detailing studio, I need to minimize light absorption. Not ideal for theater, but business before pleasure!
ahheck01 is offline  
post #12 of 18 Old 04-08-2013, 11:34 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coctostan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Indy
Posts: 1,960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahheck01 View Post

Thanks for the advice! What would be an extraordinarily cost-effective way to treat the walls and ceilings?

That is a good question. It likely depends on how ugly or pretty you want it. The ugliest would be to crudely attach some 2" OC703 fiberglass panels to the first reflections. If you wanted the the fiberglass panels to look better you would want to wrap them in fabric. I would imagine you don't want flammable material on the walls so if you cover them in fabric that should be considered.

I'm not an acoustic treatments expert, but I think this basic approach should work well. Of course it will have to fit between whatever lighting you need for your workspace. The use of directivity controlled speakers like the ones I suggested will help to mitigate the effects of a highly reflective room, but treatments would help on top of that.
coctostan is offline  
post #13 of 18 Old 04-09-2013, 07:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Looneybomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 4,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 23
I was thinking some old carpet attached to a backing board in a convoluted fashion that could then be attached to the wall. Old carpet is dirt cheap if you get it on the curb after a heavy rain when folks rip it out of their flooded basements. And by convoluted, I mean it would look like this.



If you put a white sheet over it, or kept white sheets around your lighting for photos, it'd help keep things bright for ya.

YID DIY
Looneybomber is offline  
post #14 of 18 Old 04-09-2013, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
ahheck01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 85
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post


If you put a white sheet over it, or kept white sheets around your lighting for photos, it'd help keep things bright for ya.

I do need to keep things looking nice aesthetically. Wouldn't putting a sheet over it hamper the effectiveness of the uneven surface by providing an even surface? Or will no sound bounce off of a white sheet?

By the way, I need giant stretches of white fabric anyway - anyone know of a good source of large pieces of fabric that reflect light well without spending an arm and a leg?
ahheck01 is offline  
post #15 of 18 Old 04-09-2013, 01:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Looneybomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 4,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 23
All but the highest frequencies will go through a thin cotton sheet. As frequencies decreases, sound absorbers must increase in thickness.

And I am no interior designer or accoustical engineer, but my idea wouldn't be to have the sheet(s) up against the wall where the sound absorbers are, but away a bit in some fashion. For example, something like this. They're not up against the ceiling and affords you the ability to hide lighting behind them, which is great for diffusion of hot spots when shooting.


YID DIY
Looneybomber is offline  
post #16 of 18 Old 04-09-2013, 01:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coctostan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Indy
Posts: 1,960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 128
I agree with Looneybomber but I wouldn't mess with old carpet. It needs to be at least 1-2" thick fiberglass or similar.

Do keep in mind that lining your walls with cotton sheets is probably a fire hazard especially if you are dealing with cars in the same space. It might be against code in your area. Either way, proceed with caution.
coctostan is offline  
post #17 of 18 Old 04-10-2013, 10:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Looneybomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 4,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by coctostan View Post

I agree with Looneybomber but I wouldn't mess with old carpet. It needs to be at least 1-2" thick fiberglass or similar.

Do keep in mind that lining your walls with cotton sheets is probably a fire hazard especially if you are dealing with cars in the same space. It might be against code in your area. Either way, proceed with caution.
Oh, good looking out. I forget about fire/safety codes all the time. I still burn my yard and other things despite moving into the city. Country living is so much nicer. No one cares what you do!

YID DIY
Looneybomber is offline  
post #18 of 18 Old 04-11-2013, 05:07 AM
AVS Special Member
 
coctostan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Indy
Posts: 1,960
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

Oh, good looking out. I forget about fire/safety codes all the time. I still burn my yard and other things despite moving into the city. Country living is so much nicer. No one cares what you do!

Being involved with race cars for years I've seen countless fires where cars are operated indoors. Of course a detailing shop is not as volatile but it is good to be cautious about that. If something were to happen and insurance didn't cover it you could be personally liable especially if your corporate structures are not setup properly.
coctostan is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off