Was looking at getting Seaton Submersive F2 but alot of people are recommending DIY...... - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 86 Old 03-28-2013, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ozziedog View Post

Alright, it is his sub and ultimately he should listen to everyone's advice but build what he wants. I am just thinking he lives in Canada and could get the UXL cheaper than those of us here in The USA. It was a big debate as to how many Dayton or SI 18's it would take to match the UXL-18 so the UXL should easily beat the 15's in a similar side box. You are talking no more floor space just a bigger woofer and better performance.

Now keep in kind that I am not a expert like bossobass or mark seaton or many others on here this is just my take on it. I just think same size, same price, and more performance.

The UXL 18 would be able to handle more power. So if he wants to get the full potential of it you'd have to buy more power. This may cost more depending on what he would use to power the 15"s. Or he could get an ep4000 and cover all options.

I agree that the OP should take all the advice here but should ultimately build what he wants to build. Many of the designs mentioned here will work extremely well, so it's almost a matter of personal preference now.

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post #62 of 86 Old 03-28-2013, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Louquid View Post

Many of the designs mentioned here will work extremely well, so it's almost a matter of personal preference now.

Yeah I don't think there was a bad suggestion on here. It's not like anyone suggested "bose acoustimass" or anything so all suggested setups will be phenomenal.
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post #63 of 86 Old 03-29-2013, 06:08 AM
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All true, you two. smile.gif It's not that 18" drivers are a bad suggestion, in fact some of them (if available) are great options! Just that the guy doesn't want something that big. There's an enormous dimensional difference between 3ft3 box housing dual opposed 15" SSDs and a 5ft3 box housing a single 18" SI or Dayton. That's all I'm talking about. I would love to have a space where I could put a bunch of huge subs, although I'd probably always gravitate towards the smallest/best solutions possible, just because I don't like ostentatiousness.

Absolutely, once you get into this hobby your conceptions of what size & aesthetic is acceptable changes a lot. But it's still also a fact that most people think a mini-fridge sized sub box with rough edges or non-square assembly, visible screw or brad nail holes, etc. in a functioning living room is an eyesore.

I made my two dual opposed boxes as small in the face dimensions as possible because floor space is at a premium (I and a friend or 2 work out in this space 5-6 days a week), and because I didn't want them to look conventional. Actually, I think the finished boxes are just under 3ft3 internal, but it works out fine in practice.

4x SSD-15s in two 3ft3 boxes, dual opposed, an EP4000 powering them in 4ohm stereo, with a MiniDSP for the low end. Yep, they're only being pushed about half as hard as they could go, but that is MORE than enough - as bosso said, pretty close to reference levels at 5hz in my space as measured, and I'm thinking it's closer to 3hz. If not, all that's required is more amp down the road.
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post #64 of 86 Old 03-29-2013, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by nube View Post

All true, you two. smile.gif It's not that 18" drivers are a bad suggestion, in fact some of them (if available) are great options! Just that the guy doesn't want something that big. There's an enormous dimensional difference between 3ft3 box housing dual opposed 15" SSDs and a 5ft3 box housing a single 18" SI or Dayton. That's all I'm talking about. I would love to have a space where I could put a bunch of huge subs, although I'd probably always gravitate towards the smallest/best solutions possible, just because I don't like ostentatiousness.

Absolutely, once you get into this hobby your conceptions of what size & aesthetic is acceptable changes a lot. But it's still also a fact that most people think a mini-fridge sized sub box with rough edges or non-square assembly, visible screw or brad nail holes, etc. in a functioning living room is an eyesore.

I made my two dual opposed boxes as small in the face dimensions as possible because floor space is at a premium (I and a friend or 2 work out in this space 5-6 days a week), and because I didn't want them to look conventional. Actually, I think the finished boxes are just under 3ft3 internal, but it works out fine in practice.

4x SSD-15s in two 3ft3 boxes, dual opposed, an EP4000 powering them in 4ohm stereo, with a MiniDSP for the low end. Yep, they're only being pushed about half as hard as they could go, but that is MORE than enough - as bosso said, pretty close to reference levels at 5hz in my space as measured, and I'm thinking it's closer to 3hz. If not, all that's required is more amp down the road.

So you are running two duel opposed cabinets with duel SSD-15's in each? How do you like those? Will they really go down to 5hz? I wonder how the SSD-15's stack up against the Dayton UM15's? I have two single UM-15's that I am in the process of building the enclosures for. I thought about going with the SSD-15's instead but was steared away from them by several friends that advised me to get the UM-15's. The SSD-15's are substantionally more than the Dayton's, so I guess its not really apples to apples. LoL
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post #65 of 86 Old 03-29-2013, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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With all this talk on box size, would the 3 cu ft box from DIY sound group be a good box for 1 ultimax 15? As mentioned, I would start with 2 and possible go to 4 in the future. I would get the ep4000 amp just to be ready.

And about the ep4000 amp, Mark mentioned and I have read that they are noisy. How noisy are they really? I also read about a fan upgrade to make it silent?

Everyone's help is much appreciated.
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post #66 of 86 Old 03-29-2013, 11:35 AM
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If you cant build a box, A sonotube sub is much easier to build.

Bossobass' subs are all based on sonotubes and are dual opposed sealed enclosures...

Should make your building a little bit easier

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

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post #67 of 86 Old 03-29-2013, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

With all this talk on box size, would the 3 cu ft box from DIY sound group be a good box for 1 ultimax 15? As mentioned, I would start with 2 and possible go to 4 in the future. I would get the ep4000 amp just to be ready.

And about the ep4000 amp, Mark mentioned and I have read that they are noisy. How noisy are they really? I also read about a fan upgrade to make it silent?

Everyone's help is much appreciated.

 

3cu ft is a little small for that driver but it will work. The Ep4000 is noisy, definitely distracting during quiet scenes in a movie. You can swap the fan for a much quieter one but a quieter fan also pushes less air.

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post #68 of 86 Old 03-29-2013, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I would prefer a box over a tube I think.

As for the box then, if 3 cu ft is too small, what is a good size? Not huge though.

The ep4000 is really that noisy?
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post #69 of 86 Old 03-29-2013, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

So you are running two duel opposed cabinets with duel SSD-15's in each? How do you like those? Will they really go down to 5hz? I wonder how the SSD-15's stack up against the Dayton UM15's? I have two single UM-15's that I am in the process of building the enclosures for. I thought about going with the SSD-15's instead but was steared away from them by several friends that advised me to get the UM-15's. The SSD-15's are substantionally more than the Dayton's, so I guess its not really apples to apples. LoL

Yes, I am running two 3ft3 dual opposed cabs each with 2 SSD-15s in them. So far I freaking love them and, yes, they really do 5hz and below. Unsure how they stack up to the Dayton, but the SSD are in tiny cabs.



http://www.avsforum.com/t/1428124/ssd-15-dual-opposed-vertical-sub-build

I only stopped the measurements at 5hz when I first got them dialed in. I need to redo that measurement as soon as the granite tops are finished (soon).
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Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

With all this talk on box size, would the 3 cu ft box from DIY sound group be a good box for 1 ultimax 15? As mentioned, I would start with 2 and possible go to 4 in the future. I would get the ep4000 amp just to be ready.

And about the ep4000 amp, Mark mentioned and I have read that they are noisy. How noisy are they really? I also read about a fan upgrade to make it silent?

Everyone's help is much appreciated.

The EP4000 is really noisy. You will absolutely need to do a fan mod. You will also need some way to EQ. Sealed subs tend to roll off gradually, but often the roll off starts around 50-60hz. To get good response, you will almost definitely need to EQ.

I also think you should seriously consider the dual opposed option using sonotube. But, if that's not your aesthetic, so be it.
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Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

If you cant build a box, A sonotube sub is much easier to build.

Bossobass' subs are all based on sonotubes and are dual opposed sealed enclosures...

Should make your building a little bit easier

They are easier to build, although bossobass uses a stronger material and custom extrusions for his subs, not sonotube material. I would have gone this route had I been able to source that material locally. There are just a TON of benefits to a cylindrical enclosure. Plus, I think that shape gives you a ton of options to make it look very aesthetically pleasing compared to a typical black box.
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Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

3cu ft is a little small for that driver but it will work. The Ep4000 is noisy, definitely distracting during quiet scenes in a movie. You can swap the fan for a much quieter one but a quieter fan also pushes less air.
Yes, quieter usually equates to lower CFMs, but not always. Also, program material is 1/6th or 1/8th duty, and even at max output, the amp is unlikely to get hot with even slightly reduced airflow from the quiet fan option(s). I consider this mod to be a definite requirement for almost every EP4000 owner.
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post #70 of 86 Old 03-29-2013, 12:27 PM
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How big a room you have those subs in Nube?? Sweet response graph btw. smile.gif
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post #71 of 86 Old 03-29-2013, 12:42 PM
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How big a room you have those subs in Nube?? Sweet response graph btw. smile.gif

In this rental house, the layout sucks. The living room opens to the kitchen and the rest of the house without the ability to seal any of it off, so it's about 3500cubes total. Something like that, anyway.

That graph was taken without mains on, xo at 80. Since then, I've changed the xo to 100 and I have granite tops coming, which will require me to remeasure and re-EQ. I'll update that thread when it's all said and done, perhaps in the next week or two. Plus, at some point in the next couple of months I'm building some new mains with the TD12X drivers that should be shipping soon, so that will likely force a redo, too.
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post #72 of 86 Old 03-29-2013, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by nube View Post

In this rental house, the layout sucks. The living room opens to the kitchen and the rest of the house without the ability to seal any of it off, so it's about 3500cubes total. Something like that, anyway.
I hear ya. Our home has a VERY similar layout only bigger (around 8300cubes) so i know the feeling.
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post #73 of 86 Old 03-29-2013, 01:26 PM
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I overlaid Nube's FR and mine, using the SSD's. He uses PEQ, I used L/T and we both got to the same place.



As Nube points out, I don't use sonotube. I tried a few back when but the walls are too thin, etc. The Ravens were custom extruded 1/2" PVC in an hourglass shape. Most inert enclosure ever. The ones shown in the pic are made with a tube similar to Sono, but are custom made to my spec diameter and wall thickness.

I built 2 full stack towers like the one shown in the pic. 16x15" driven by the 1st clones I ordered 3 years ago. They were either FP9K or FP12K, can't remember (but only a dB or so diff). Yeah, I'd put that system up against any multi-driver system on this forum. At reference level to 3 Hz, 8x15" is all I need. More amp/drivers just gave headroom and I don't do the crazy hot stuff to see how high it will go, so just don't need it. I ran sweeps and stopped at 130dB because it's just stupid and make a wreck outta my nerves for no good reason.
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post #74 of 86 Old 03-29-2013, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

I overlaid Nube's FR and mine, using the SSD's. He uses PEQ, I used L/T and we both got to the same place.



As Nube points out, I don't use sonotube. I tried a few back when but the walls are too thin, etc. The Ravens were custom extruded 1/2" PVC in an hourglass shape. Most inert enclosure ever. The ones shown in the pic are made with a tube similar to Sono, but are custom made to my spec diameter and wall thickness.

I built 2 full stack towers like the one shown in the pic. 16x15" driven by the 1st clones I ordered 3 years ago. They were either FP9K or FP12K, can't remember (but only a dB or so diff). Yeah, I'd put that system up against any multi-driver system on this forum. At reference level to 3 Hz, 8x15" is all I need. More amp/drivers just gave headroom and I don't do the crazy hot stuff to see how high it will go, so just don't need it. I ran sweeps and stopped at 130dB because it's just stupid and make a wreck outta my nerves for no good reason.

How can you post something like that and not explain how you built those subs? They look gorgeous lol.
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post #75 of 86 Old 03-29-2013, 02:02 PM
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What kind of price tag do those Ravens come with Bosso??
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post #76 of 86 Old 03-29-2013, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bossobass View Post

I overlaid Nube's FR and mine, using the SSD's. He uses PEQ, I used L/T and we both got to the same place.



As Nube points out, I don't use sonotube. I tried a few back when but the walls are too thin, etc. The Ravens were custom extruded 1/2" PVC in an hourglass shape. Most inert enclosure ever. The ones shown in the pic are made with a tube similar to Sono, but are custom made to my spec diameter and wall thickness.

I built 2 full stack towers like the one shown in the pic. 16x15" driven by the 1st clones I ordered 3 years ago. They were either FP9K or FP12K, can't remember (but only a dB or so diff). Yeah, I'd put that system up against any multi-driver system on this forum. At reference level to 3 Hz, 8x15" is all I need. More amp/drivers just gave headroom and I don't do the crazy hot stuff to see how high it will go, so just don't need it. I ran sweeps and stopped at 130dB because it's just stupid and make a wreck outta my nerves for no good reason.

Yeah, that would be really scary to run sweeps anywhere close to those levels. I did a sweep (VERY quickly paused the omnimic to get it recorded and paused the playback) that was around 110 and it scared the crap out of me even with ear plugs in. Heh, I imagine it sweeps like that could tear up gear pretty quick. eek.gif
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post #77 of 86 Old 03-30-2013, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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What does a minidsp actually do how do you know the correct model to get?
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post #78 of 86 Old 03-30-2013, 02:59 PM
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What does a minidsp actually do how do you know the correct model to get?

The MiniDSP is an active parametric EQ solution. It can also be programmed to perform advanced biquad functions, enabling the creation of Linkwitz Transforms. However, you have to have an accurate method of room measurement to utilize this, and all other user-defined, EQ solution(s). REW + a calibrated USB mic is a good start if you have a laptop that can do HDMI output.

The MiniDSP 2x4 balanced (and 2.1 biquad advanced plugin) is likely what you want. You could also ping bosso for a custom L/T circuit after your build is completed and you have room measurements done.
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post #79 of 86 Old 03-30-2013, 03:02 PM
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"...you have to have an accurate method of room measurement to utilize this..."

that is a little bit of a stretch. best results are obtained that way, but measurement gear isn't required to use a mini dsp.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #80 of 86 Old 03-30-2013, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"...you have to have an accurate method of room measurement to utilize this..."

that is a little bit of a stretch. best results are obtained that way, but measurement gear isn't required to use a mini dsp.

While technically true, how else would you know what and where to EQ? I consider an SPL meter, while rather rudimentary, to be included in the broad definition of "room measurement" tools.
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post #81 of 86 Old 03-31-2013, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info guys. What type of glue or bonding agent is typically used when putting together the faltpacks?
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post #82 of 86 Old 03-31-2013, 07:35 AM
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post #83 of 86 Old 03-31-2013, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

Thanks for the info guys. What type of glue or bonding agent is typically used when putting together the faltpacks?

 

Any quality yellow wood glue is fine, Titebond III or II is recommended. Titebond III has a longer opening time than II so it gives you some time to work with before it sets.

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post #84 of 86 Old 03-31-2013, 06:05 PM - Thread Starter
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What's that pt stuff I have read about?
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post #85 of 86 Old 03-31-2013, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

If you cant build a box, A sonotube sub is much easier to build.

Bossobass' subs are all based on sonotubes and are dual opposed sealed enclosures...

Should make your building a little bit easier

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What's that pt stuff I have read about?

It's PL Premium. Not pt, and it is very nasty stuff but it binds rediculously and expands as it dries so it is good to fill gaps from poor cuts. I used it on my first few builds including some horns where once you seal up the top panel, you can never get back into the box to fix any air leaks. On a simple sealed sub build, I would suggest the titebond, and then perhaps a bead of pl inside the box on each corner of the box, but some would tell you even that is a little overkill. I just like to be extra extra safe biggrin.gif

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post #86 of 86 Old 04-01-2013, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

Thanks for the info guys. What type of glue or bonding agent is typically used when putting together the faltpacks?



I would use Titebond II for CNC flatpacks. You shouldnt need much working time and the tolerances are close enough for good seal without any additional hooplah.

However a bead of sealer(caulk,PL, or glue) on the interior seams is always cheap/good insurance.

I reach for the PL when I make my own cuts redface.gif
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