Dual Opposed Prototype - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 30 Old 03-27-2013, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
A short intro:

I had built one DIY subwoofer so far and of course in the process spend way too much time browsing the DIY galleries here and on a few other forums. This gave me a lot to think about and I immediately began planning another build. Courtesy of Popalock, I found a great deal on a pair of TC Sounds LMS Ultra drivers so my choices where either two sealed or a dual configuration. I'm a little short on space so I went with a dual opposed in a medium sized box. The form factor is relatively small considering that there are two gigantic drivers in it. For more information you can check out this thread.

Anyways, I got talking to a friend of a friend who happens to own and operate his own speaker company and from whom I've purchased a few pairs of speakers and he liked my build idea. I asked him if he could CNC cut it for me and he agreed on the condition that I created the CNC files myself. We also talked about the possibility of offering this as a flat pack sometime in the future if the build came out well.

Well, he got busy so I decided to make a prototype while I waited, I've got the drivers and the plans and nothing to do so why not. Anyways, here's what I've got so far. If anyone has any questions, comments, praise, or insults, let'em fly.











fuzz092888 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 30 Old 03-27-2013, 07:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Looneybomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 4,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Your "friend's" speaker shop isn't in your signature is it? If so, Dennis would be a good friend to have!

And now for the obligatory "Moar pics!".

Stole this one from ya. I like how you have all three axes braced.

YID DIY
Looneybomber is offline  
post #3 of 30 Old 03-27-2013, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Haha, no. Dennis doesn't do his own cabinet work, unfortunately. I do help Dennis out from time to time concerning his website, but that's about it. The friend I referred to is John from Source Technology Speakers. He sure does make great stuff with that big CNC machine. When I picked up a pair of towers from him I got to sneak a quick look at the workshop. I only wish my vehicle was bigger so I could've taken more home.

Hopefully tomorrow there will be more pics. I'm pretty happy the progress so far. biggrin.gif
fuzz092888 is online now  
post #4 of 30 Old 03-28-2013, 07:55 AM
Member
 
bluesidan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Anxiously waiting for more info....
bluesidan is offline  
post #5 of 30 Old 03-28-2013, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

Your "friend's" speaker shop isn't in your signature is it? If so, Dennis would be a good friend to have!

And now for the obligatory "Moar pics!".

Stole this one from ya. I like how you have all three axes braced.

Actually all 4 are. The fourth is just obscured due to the angle. Thanks!
fuzz092888 is online now  
post #6 of 30 Old 03-28-2013, 02:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BeerParty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New Hampshire, USA
Posts: 1,076
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzz092888 View Post

Actually all 4 are. The fourth is just obscured due to the angle. Thanks!

There is a 4th axes? eek.gif Who know? Here I am with decades of experience thinking there were only three axes out there... biggrin.gif

fuzz - I think the 3 axes Looneybomber was referring to are these:


Which means that with 3 axes of bracing you brace all 6 panels of your cabinet.

Chris

"It hurts to admit when you make mistakes - but when they are big enough, the pain only lasts a second."
--Despair, Inc. "Regret"

My AviaTrix TM Build
BeerParty is offline  
post #7 of 30 Old 03-28-2013, 03:36 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerParty View Post

There is a 4th axes? eek.gif Who know? Here I am with decades of experience thinking there were only three axes out there... biggrin.gif

fuzz - I think the 3 axes Looneybomber was referring to are these:


Which means that with 3 axes of bracing you brace all 6 panels of your cabinet.

Whoops, scanned that quick on tapatalk.

Yes there is, just like a 4th dimension tongue.gif
fuzz092888 is online now  
post #8 of 30 Old 03-28-2013, 04:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,544
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 433 Post(s)
Liked: 732
Those 2 vertical braces look identical to the ones for the upcoming dual opposed flat pack I was working on.

I like your idea for the longer beams running down the sides of the box but I wonder how difficult that would be to assemble for the average Joe.
Erich H is online now  
post #9 of 30 Old 03-28-2013, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Those 2 vertical braces look identical to the ones for the upcoming dual opposed flat pack I was working on.

I like your idea for the longer beams running down the sides of the box but I wonder how difficult that would be to assemble for the average Joe.

Everything slots together with dados, so those longer pieces are in a dado on the walls and in a dado in the interior braces. They can even be glued to the respective walls prior to gluing the walls together so it should be simple.

At least that's the hope biggrin.gif
fuzz092888 is online now  
post #10 of 30 Old 03-29-2013, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Got some work done today. All pieces are completely together (not assembly though) so they're ready for a dry fit tomorrow or whenever I get time. I'm sure I'll have to do some shaving here and there to get everything to fit perfectly, but I guess I'll find out. I dread the dry fitting since this thing weighs nearly twice as much as I do. Each piece weighs somewhere between ~25lbs - ~40lbs or more. Anyways, enough complaining.





fuzz092888 is online now  
post #11 of 30 Old 03-30-2013, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
fuzz092888 is online now  
post #12 of 30 Old 03-31-2013, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Managed to sneak in a little work today. Did a little planing and fitting. The parts I did work on fit pretty well, the other parts.....well they need a little more love.





fuzz092888 is online now  
post #13 of 30 Old 03-31-2013, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Only have two more pieces to fit and it's time to start gluing.



fuzz092888 is online now  
post #14 of 30 Old 04-01-2013, 07:50 AM
Advanced Member
 
djkest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 25
So you decided to skip the "smaller holes" on the internal braces? I thought that would be a good idea, since those middle pieces are only about 30% voided. Not sure if that would add some sort of "cavity resonance" but maybe not. You could densely stuff fiberglass in that middle section.
djkest is offline  
post #15 of 30 Old 04-01-2013, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkest View Post

So you decided to skip the "smaller holes" on the internal braces? I thought that would be a good idea, since those middle pieces are only about 30% voided. Not sure if that would add some sort of "cavity resonance" but maybe not. You could densely stuff fiberglass in that middle section.

I didn't skip them, but good eye smile.gif. I'm just deciding how I want to do them. I injured my circle jig for my router so I'm trying figure out if I want to just use forstner bits and cut more but smaller holes or go with the original plan and cut the 4 larger holes with a makeshift jig.
fuzz092888 is online now  
post #16 of 30 Old 04-01-2013, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Now comes the boring part. Gluing and waiting.

fuzz092888 is online now  
post #17 of 30 Old 04-01-2013, 08:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BllDo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 1,152
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 109 Post(s)
Liked: 96
Wow. Having just a little clamp envy. Looks very nice.

Is there a reason you doubled up the center dividers? It seems like a single thickness would be fine and take up less volume. Just curious.

-




Is it solipsistic in here, or is it just me?
BllDo is offline  
post #18 of 30 Old 04-01-2013, 09:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 3,950
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked: 876
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post

Wow. Having just a little clamp envy. Looks very nice.

Is there a reason you doubled up the center dividers? It seems like a single thickness would be fine and take up less volume. Just curious.

So it could hold the weight of a house... That's the beefiest damn box anyone will ever see!

I miss my babies... frown.gif
popalock is offline  
post #19 of 30 Old 04-02-2013, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post

Wow. Having just a little clamp envy. Looks very nice.

Is there a reason you doubled up the center dividers? It seems like a single thickness would be fine and take up less volume. Just curious.

Well the original plan was to have more bracing, but the size of the cabinet and the size of the drivers really limited what would fit. I doubled up on the bracing because there's less of it and I really wanted more surface area to glue and hold the four walls together and give it plenty of structural rigidity. Overkill: Check. Ability to withstand natural disaster: Check. Ability to move without hernia:____
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

So it could hold the weight of a house... That's the beefiest damn box anyone will ever see!

I miss my babies... frown.gif

During the dry fit I couldn't resist standing on it and giving it a few knocks. I feel like I could hit it with a sledge hammer and the interior would be just fine.
fuzz092888 is online now  
post #20 of 30 Old 04-06-2013, 11:12 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
40419251-ECCB-4692-AA8C-8B7C106BF6CB-2629-000002EDCA626139_zps82e4f9d8.jpg

FFA55827-703C-4662-8EA1-3D326D70009E-2629-000002EDD4DB08A0_zps79b93f34.jpg
fuzz092888 is online now  
post #21 of 30 Old 04-07-2013, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Done for now. Stuffing and dropping the drivers in either tonight or tomorrow depending on how everything looks.



fuzz092888 is online now  
post #22 of 30 Old 04-08-2013, 01:36 PM
Advanced Member
 
djkest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 677
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Looks like you decided to nix the additional holes. It should be fine without them. how much room is there around the motor/magnet assembly?
djkest is offline  
post #23 of 30 Old 04-08-2013, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by djkest View Post

Looks like you decided to nix the additional holes. It should be fine without them. how much room is there around the motor/magnet assembly?

There are holes. They were added after some of those pictures were taken since I kinda forgo about them. I calculated a pretty tight fit but won't know for sure until I get a driver installed.
fuzz092888 is online now  
post #24 of 30 Old 04-08-2013, 05:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 3,950
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked: 876
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzz092888 View Post

Done for now. Stuffing and dropping the drivers in either tonight or tomorrow depending on how everything looks.

Looking good man!

Getting very close to that thing becoming an immovable object...

How much does the box weigh again? 200lbs, or so right?

Man, that box is going to weigh more than one of my quad 18 boxes.
popalock is offline  
post #25 of 30 Old 04-08-2013, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Looking good man!

Getting very close to that thing becoming an immovable object...

How much does the box weigh again? 200lbs, or so right?

Man, that box is going to weigh more than one of my quad 18 boxes.

Yea, pretty much. With the drivers in you can't budge the thing.

I found out that using the AB 800.2 is like trying to power a C5 with the engine from the Toyota Prius. It went directly into clipping at -15 during Real Steel. Flight of the Phoenix -20 was about as high as I dared to go. This thing needs 2400 watts per driver minimum to avoid clipping it would seem. I actually turned off two of the other subs because they were squealing for mercy, and I mean squealing. The Outlaw was making awful port noise and the Source Tech with passive radiator was not happy. Possibly bottoming out. The dual opposed and the the large sealed with the Pierce Audio driver weren't even breaking a sweat, and as far as I can tell the other Source Tech sub was trying to keep up without anything bad happening.






fuzz092888 is online now  
post #26 of 30 Old 04-09-2013, 08:26 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Looneybomber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 4,668
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzz092888 View Post

Whoops, scanned that quick on tapatalk.

Yes there is, just like a 4th dimension tongue.gif

Haha, braced for all eternity, right?

YID DIY
Looneybomber is offline  
post #27 of 30 Old 05-08-2013, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
So I had some time today and I thought I'd do a little test. It's not really valid for anyone else except me, but maybe it will give you guys an idea of what this thing can do.

Test Conditions: Sub is being run by an AB International 1100A, which pushes 800W/ch @ 4ohms. One channel per driver, gain knobs all the way up. The Sub was 3.4 meters away with one driver facing me and the other facing away from me (this was done from the LP). Signal was being run, from the computer > AVR > miniDSP > Amp. I did this because I wanted to know what I was getting out of this thing, I can run this test again bypassing all DSP if anybody really wanted me to. I used REW to run a CEDIA burst tone at the frequencies listed on data-bass, up to 125Hz. Sub was leveled to 81db using the channel level on the AVR and then the AVR volume was set to 0.0. The sub channel level was set to +2.5 on the AVR. This was the safest level I could go to without destroying the amplifier. Measured using a Galaxy CM-140

Hz | db
10 | 96.7
12.5 | 96.9
16 | 97.1
20 | 102.3
25 | 103
31.5 | 102.8
40 | 107.8
50 | 109
63 | 103
80 | 95.1
100 | 103.6
125 | 104.6

Without DSP it would definitely change things, as would a free field test, as would give these drivers the proper amount of power (~4000 watts each). All in all I'm pretty happy with it, especially since it's not the only subwoofer I'm running.
fuzz092888 is online now  
post #28 of 30 Old 05-10-2013, 03:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
popalock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 3,950
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked: 876
Send a message via Skype™ to popalock
More powwwwaaaaa!!!!!!!

I'm really surprised that you were even able to get the Ultras to move at all with 800 watts.

You weight that thing yet? 400lbs or so?
popalock is offline  
post #29 of 30 Old 05-10-2013, 03:52 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
fuzz092888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 491
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

More powwwwaaaaa!!!!!!!

I'm really surprised that you were even able to get the Ultras to move at all with 800 watts.

You weight that thing yet? 400lbs or so?

They moved a surprising amount during the 10hz and 12hz tones, but they definitely need more.

I would if I had any way to biggrin.gif My best guess is the cabinet weighs at least 200lbs....low end. I'm still trying to figure out how to get it high enough to get these wheels I bought for it under the thing.
fuzz092888 is online now  
post #30 of 30 Old 05-10-2013, 04:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
yelnatsch517's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 980
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzz092888 View Post

They moved a surprising amount during the 10hz and 12hz tones, but they definitely need more.

I would if I had any way to biggrin.gif My best guess is the cabinet weighs at least 200lbs....low end. I'm still trying to figure out how to get it high enough to get these wheels I bought for it under the thing.

The LMS5400 can take 900 watts without hitting xmax until 2.5hz. You can give it bit more power :-D
yelnatsch517 is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off