So I'm thinking about adding some more bass... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 28 Old 04-05-2013, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I did a DIY sub project about a year ago. The thread for that can be found here for reference:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1401923/first-subwoofer-build-progress-thread#post_22359758

Anyway, so many people I talked to said this was a good start, but I will probably get the bug and want to add more. They were right! Don't get me wrong, this sub I made has been great and I have no complaints at all. It does a fair job shaking my walls a little bit but I want more. I can't decide if I need to add a second sub to a different part of the room to help with room balance, or to just buy a matching driver, a new amp and build some type of dual driver system. My room is much more wide than deep. It is 12 x 22, with the shorter distance being where I sit to the TV. The sub is currently in the corner (to my left as I sit) about 10 feet away. I've considered adding another sub to the opposite side of the room, which would be an end table to my couch. Perhaps a down firing sub? If I chose to make a two driver box, I have a little more room to spare. My current box is a two port, 12" TC Sounds driver, O Audio 500w amp (interior dimensions 22.25H x 27.25L x 18.25W - roughly 6.3 F3). I could go a little wider and taller, but not deeper. I've seen some people praise a THT box, but I'm not positive that I have the space to go with something that large.

With that said, I am seeking a little direction and suggestions. Thanks in advance for your input.

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post #2 of 28 Old 04-05-2013, 07:31 PM
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Its generally better to use matching subs. Either placed symmetrical to the center seat. Or you could stack them and gain 6db.
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post #3 of 28 Old 04-06-2013, 11:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaison View Post

I did a DIY sub project about a year ago. The thread for that can be found here for reference:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1401923/first-subwoofer-build-progress-thread#post_22359758

Anyway, so many people I talked to said this was a good start, but I will probably get the bug and want to add more. They were right! Don't get me wrong, this sub I made has been great and I have no complaints at all. It does a fair job shaking my walls a little bit but I want more. I can't decide if I need to add a second sub to a different part of the room to help with room balance, or to just buy a matching driver, a new amp and build some type of dual driver system. My room is much more wide than deep. It is 12 x 22, with the shorter distance being where I sit to the TV. The sub is currently in the corner (to my left as I sit) about 10 feet away. I've considered adding another sub to the opposite side of the room, which would be an end table to my couch. Perhaps a down firing sub? If I chose to make a two driver box, I have a little more room to spare. My current box is a two port, 12" TC Sounds driver, O Audio 500w amp (interior dimensions 22.25H x 27.25L x 18.25W - roughly 6.3 F3). I could go a little wider and taller, but not deeper. I've seen some people praise a THT box, but I'm not positive that I have the space to go with something that large.

With that said, I am seeking a little direction and suggestions. Thanks in advance for your input.

The TC drivers are nice, but a bit pricey. You may be better off with dual-opposed HO-18's, probably more displacement per occupied cubic foot, as space is probably a concern in such room.

You can literally never have too much bass. For example, my niece and her girlfriends (9) were in my theater today listening to 9 subwoofers at full blast from clones and iTech's powering 21" subs etc etc playing their Bieber and Thrift Shop music. They didn't reach for their ears or nothing, because there is no audiable distortion to take notice of. "You can be loosing your hearing and it's a completely pleasurable experience." But it was only 99cents biggrin.gif
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post #4 of 28 Old 04-07-2013, 01:45 AM
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i'd say just keep going in the same direction until you have the >20hz stuff covered in spades.

a diy version of this with some decent 15's and good power might work
:
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/xv30

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post #5 of 28 Old 04-07-2013, 05:40 AM
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Vaison- I highly recommend buying a Dayton HO18 or HO15, or maybe even an HF15 or a UM15 all from Dayton. Take your pick. If I were you I would build a new enclosure for the new 15" driver, that would make 2 different enclosures and depending on where you locate them, that should smooth out the response. I recommend either selling the TC Sounds 12" driver and buying 2 Daytons, or buying another TC Sounds driver. The later will cost more, plus it might be a step down from the Daytons inn terms of output and extension.
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post #6 of 28 Old 04-07-2013, 06:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't have an intention to ditch the first box unless I were to go with the current driver in a dual driver box. Since everyone is suggesting a new box across the room, the first box will stay. I think box #2 will have a 15" driver in it and the most logical place for me is to make some type of end table. My goal size would be 32 long, 25H (that includes legs under it for down firing), and 20W. Anything larger in that space will be problematic. If I go with a 15' driver, I can't get another TC Epic because their largest is a 12. The other TC models are too expensive for me. The Daytons are the popular choice? While I have gotten help from others with WINisd for my last build, I remember xmax being discussed and part of the reason I went with the TC driver over the Dayton. Is that something that I shouldn't worry about?

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post #7 of 28 Old 04-07-2013, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone willing to model with WINisd using the following two drivers in a 5.5cu ported box?

The SI HT 15
http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=60

The Dayton HO 15
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-469

Using this amp
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-807

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post #8 of 28 Old 04-07-2013, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaison View Post

Anyone willing to model with WINisd using the following two drivers in a 5.5cu ported box?

The SI HT 15
http://stereointegrity.com/index.php?id=60

The Dayton HO 15
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-469

Using this amp
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-807

better yet u could do it your self
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post #9 of 28 Old 04-08-2013, 02:10 AM
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I'd rule out the 15" Dayton HO, only 12mm Xmax. The HF only has 14mm Xmax. Which is ok, but not great.

Here's some others I would consider.

in the $200 range -
Dayton UM15 - Fs: 19.5Hz; Xmax: 19mm; Sens: 86.5db (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-514)
RE Audio SR Pro 15 - Fs: 23Hz; Xmax: 18mm; Sens: 87.6 (http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/RE-Audio-SRPRO15-15-Dual-2-Ohm-640-Watt-Peak-Pro-Woofer-SRPRO15D2-REA13-SRPRO15-D2)
Alpine SWR-1522D - Fs: 22Hz; Sens: 87db; Xmax: 20.7 (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7033_Alpine-SWR-1522D.html)

In the $200-$350 range -
RE Audio SE Pro 15 - Fs: 22Hz; Xmax: 18mm; Sens: 88db (http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/RE-Audio-SEPRO15-15-Pro-Dual-2-Ohm-1280-Watt-Peak-Woofer-SEPRO15D2-REA13-SEPRO15-D2)
RE Audio SXX 15D2 - Fs: 27.8Hz; Xmax; 22mm; Sens: 90.4db (http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_27320_RE-Audio-SXX15D2.html)

I had some Alpine type R subs a few years back and they were the best car subs I've ever owned. And yes, I've owned JL's as well. They were fantastic and I wouldn't hesitate to use them in a home setup if I still had them.
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post #10 of 28 Old 04-08-2013, 02:44 AM
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I have not seen any of those SR Pro-15's, or the SE Pro-15's or that Alpine recommended before. Are those all going to be sonically superior to the Dayton HO15's or HF15's? What about the UM-15 compared to those?
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post #11 of 28 Old 04-08-2013, 12:48 PM
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Now I can't be for certain in regards to the RE Audio drivers, but RE used to have a good rep in the car audio biz. I threw those in there due to decent looking specs in that price range.

As I said, the published Xmax for the Dayton 15HO is only 12mm. That isn't much. I've been contemplating building a new sub for a few months now and was really considering one of the Dayton Reference HF drivers. But now the UM's are out and I'm hearing a lot of good things about them. I just haven't had a chance to model one yet.

With the HO's, you get a little more power handling and smaller enclosures, at the expense of LF extension. The HF's handle slilghtly less, require a box a little bigger and have better low end extension.

As for the Alpine, the Type R 10's I had a few years back were so absolutely wonderful in the SQ department. They delivered tons of distortion free LF and were extremely articulate. I had two 10's back then and they outperformed four 12in JLs in every aspect. But this was quite a few years ago. I'm not sure how they are nowadays. But looking at those specs, I might just model one for giggles. The specs look nice. If I were to narrow it down, I 'd have a hard time choosing between the Dayton UM15 and the Alpine. Modeling in Bass Box Pro would decide the winner for me.

Infinity Reference series car subs have a great reputation for home sub duty. Before the UM's came out, I was trying to decide between a 12in Infinity Reference or a Dayton HF. Sadly, I can't seem to find any 15in Infinity Reference drivers. That was the first one I looked for as a suggestion.

Here's specs on the Alpine. I'm gonna go model it since I have nothing better to do -
http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/500/500WR1522D.PDF
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post #12 of 28 Old 04-08-2013, 01:32 PM
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Wow, this Alpine is modeling decent in a sealed box. At 2ft3, f3/f10 is 43.7Hz / 23Hz. With 750wrms, Xmax never exceeds 16mm and SPL is as follows -
50Hz @ 113.8db
40Hz @ 111.8db
30Hz @ 108.9db
20Hz @ 103.7Hz
15Hz @ 99.4db
10Hz @ 93db

Models fairly well in a ported enclosure with a 750w input as well.
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post #13 of 28 Old 04-08-2013, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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@zagnutty - It is interesting that you suggest the Alpine driver. It was one of the considerations when I built the first box. I don't recall exactly why I chose the TC over the Alpine, but I pretty much took advice from everyone and deduced it to a final choice. After looking at some old PM's, one of the reasons the Alpine was ditched was because of aesthetics. With this upcoming build, the driver will be not be seen so I don't care how it looks. I hadn't considered a sealed box since I was thinking ported again. I will have to go read some threads on pros and cons of each. Would it make a difference having one ported and one non-ported in the same system?

I also found my original thread where I asked for advice. The Epic driver modeled out at 108db at 20hz, if I am reading it correctly.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1377276/looking-for-a-little-help-to-plan-a-build/30

LTD02 basically did the calculations for me and offered a lot of advice. I just made a final decision and built it. He's really good with WINisd and I wasn't, so that is why I reached out for an expert to run the specs for me, cookieattk.

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post #14 of 28 Old 04-08-2013, 03:33 PM
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You will learn more doing simulations yourself, after a period of befuddlement... BTW, I use Unibox for no apparent reason...

Some general comments...
In the following, a driver is "happy" in a sealed box at a Qtc of 0.7, where response is flattest.
A driver "likes" a vented box that protects Xmax while yielding flat response to the lowest F3 achievable.

Ultimax series looks great on paper, can't wait to hear them. For U15...
- happy when sealed at 4 cu ft, F3 of 31Hz but since it's sealed, an F10 of 18Hz
- vented it demands 15 cu ft tuned to 15Hz for an F3 of 13.5Hz

Dayton RSS390-4 HF, but these hit Xmax at half power.
- it's happy in 3.5 cu ft with an F3 of 33Hz, F10 of 19 Hz.
- vented it likes 13 cu ft tuned to 15Hz for an F3 of 15Hz.

Dayton RSS390-4 HO
- sealed it's happy in 1 cu ft for an F3 of 51Hz. Hoffman's Iron Law at work...
- vented it likes 4 cu ft at 23Hz for an F3 of 22Hz

SI HT15
- selaed it's happy at 2 cu ft with an F3 of 39Hz
- vented it likes 5.5 cu ft at 20Hz for an F3 of 20Hz, but with excursion to spare at 500W.

I'm seeing one monster sub (at a very competitive price), a good sub with too little excursion and a couple car subs, intended for small boxes. My sub is very similar to the Umax 15 (Tempest X), and in a sealed box, it's a great match to the O-audio amp; I like the 16Hz filter/boost setting. If you build that, put the new PE amp on your vented box.

Don't forget room gain... it's what makes a sealed sub flat in-room well into the infra-sonic range. .

Have fun,
Frank
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post #15 of 28 Old 04-08-2013, 05:55 PM
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sometimes having subs that work well in small enclosures is good, as it allows you to use many of them. there are different approaches and a place for all the drivers mentioned.


Listen. It's All Good.
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post #16 of 28 Old 04-08-2013, 07:14 PM
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I honestly don't know if mixing ported and sealed will have any odd effects. Other than maybe phasing and group delay. But I don't know enough about these to say for sure.

Also, could the Eminence LAB15 be a candidate? I get some interesting output in a 3-7ft3 ported box tuned between 15 and 20Hz. Some pretty big output numbers like 108db @ 20Hz with 500wrms input. Tuned at 15Hz, Xmax is hit at about 14Hz.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=290-575

Or Eminence Kilomax Pro-18A. Getting about 104db @ 20Hz with 800wrms input, 2.5ft3 sealed. 107db @ 20Hz with 500wrms in 5ft3 ported & tuned to 20Hz (two 4in vents). Hits Xmax at about 15Hz. Would want to use a HP filter on this though, as it comes close to Xmax in the 40-50Hz range.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=290-434


I'm still trying to find some others that might be good candidates. I didn't know I could get a TC Epic 12 for less than $200! Now I must re-evaluate my own choices.
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post #17 of 28 Old 04-09-2013, 04:56 AM
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there are several options. most of the sealed will model the same. most of the ported will more or less model the same. with only 500 watts, any of these options will work. it is kind of up to you to choose which set of tradeoffs make the most sense for you. there is no universally single "right" answer.

dayton 15" ho in 5 cubic feet, port tuned to 20hz, 500 watts, 12mm excursion with that power in that cab. spec'd xmax is probably quite under-rated. gray.

stereo integrity 15" ht in same cab with same power produces pretty much same thing. red.

dayton 18" ho in 4 cubic feet sealed, 500 watts. blue.

jbl w15gti in 4 cubic feet sealed, 500 watts. orange.

dayton 15" um in 4 cubic feet sealed, 500 watts. aqua.

TWO dayton 15" ho in 5 cubic feet sealed, 500 watts. green.

dayton 18" ho in 5 cubic feet, port tuned to 20hz, 500 watts. brown.

alpine swr 1522d in 5 cubic feet, port tuned to 20hz, 500 watts. yellow.


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post #18 of 28 Old 04-09-2013, 05:22 AM
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so what does it all mean?

if you have unlimited money, get the highest excursion linear drivers that you can (2 lms ultras). put them in a sealed enclosure and power them with a ton of power (approximately 8kw would be good for the pair).

if you have less than $3000 for drivers and amps, a ported option with a decent driver and a 500 watt plate amp will work well. :-)

stereo integrity 15" ht15d2 (make sure to get the dual 2 ohm so it can be wired for 4 ohms net), 500 watts, 5 cubic foot enclosure, 20hz tuning. red.

green is dayton dvc385-88 driver, which sometimes goes on sale for $99, same power, same enclosure. green.

excursion is 15mm for either driver, which is fine. plate amps have a high pass, sometimes you can adjust it. be sure that you don't get one with a high pass around 30hz or you will miss some of the fun.

two 3" flared ports that are 16" long would be about the minimum amount of porting that i'd suggest. good luck whichever way you go.



edit: ultras added just for fun. pink line.


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post #19 of 28 Old 04-09-2013, 12:57 PM
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This Alpine really looks interesting, especially for $200. It's too bad I don't have room for a 15, or I would consider it.

Personally, I'd stay away from the SI. I've seen too many iffy things posted about it. That's my opinion though.

The dvc385-88 is kind of surprising. But it's only rated at 350wrms. That's both coils combined, not each.

Nobody has played around with modeling the RE Audio drivers? I'm looking at, and modeling a couple more. If any look good, I'll post info.
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post #20 of 28 Old 04-09-2013, 02:27 PM
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I have found about 20 more candidates that look like good performers. But quite a few of them are in the $300-$350 range. I have to do some rough modelling of them and will report back with the ones that look good.

In the meantime, has anyone seen the new Sundown X series subs? Pretty freakin beefy at 45-51lbs (10in to 18in)
And I quote -
"Linear x-max is around ~30mm one-way by 70% BL with a total mechanical clearance of 50mm in the motor."
10 is $280 and 18in is $350. If these things perform as good as they look, there's a serious new player in the "bang for your buck" category! ETA on them is June 30th.
Found TS specs -
http://www.emfcaraudio.com/x-series/
Pics of them -
http://forum.realmofexcursion.com/sundown-audio/76701-sundown-x-10-x-15-x-18-prototypes-here.html
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post #21 of 28 Old 04-10-2013, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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LTD - thanks for the models. You say I can do any of those as sealed right?

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post #22 of 28 Old 04-10-2013, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Zag - what bad things did you hear about the SI drivers?

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post #23 of 28 Old 04-10-2013, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaison View Post

Zag - what bad things did you hear about the SI drivers?
*Also interested in finding out*

smile.gif
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post #24 of 28 Old 04-10-2013, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaison View Post

Zag - what bad things did you hear about the SI drivers?

+1, am seriously considering an SI, excursion at rated power is hard to beat.

Edit: for the price smile.gif
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post #25 of 28 Old 04-10-2013, 11:41 AM
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"You say I can do any of those as sealed right?"

well, you can, you just lose about 8db or so around the tuning frequency and somewhat less above that.

sealed is great if you have the money for twice the drivers and twice the amp. ported is better if you are trying to get the most sound with the least bucks.

zag, unless you are going to be running sine waves at the tuning frequency, i wouldn't worry about the power specs on the dvc. model it up and look at the power tab. most everywhere current is relatively modest.

the alpine is interesting, but again that excursion is not without a cost--high inductance. the upgrade from the "s" line to the "r" line is primarily a copper sleeve to try to help manage inductance. the high le/re suggets that it is only partially successful. an impedance sweep and frequency sweep would be revealing. how much this matters, hard to say, but enough to warrant at least 2 product lines at alpine (3 if you count even more inductance work in the x line).

there is a klippel of the swr10 and the bl is both flat and symmetrical (almost perfect +/-10mm). the 12 and 15 are probably similar, but the 12 has been updated and i haven't seen a klippel on the new ones.

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post #26 of 28 Old 04-10-2013, 11:44 AM
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"+1, am seriously considering an SI, excursion at rated power is hard to beat."

it would be interesting to see how the dayton 15" ho compares with the si 15" ht. their big brothers perform quite similarly and both are roughly the same price.

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post #27 of 28 Old 04-10-2013, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaison View Post

Zag - what bad things did you hear about the SI drivers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MemX View Post

*Also interested in finding out*

smile.gif

I didn't necessarily hear anything bad. But I think remember reading some things about the stitching of the surround to the cone. Maybe it was a fluke, as bad apples do make it into the basket with the good ones sometimes.



I've modeled a few "budget" drivers for this project. Here's what I got so far. It's quite long, and I got a few more. Not feeling well this evening, so don't know if I'll get them done tonight. And while I haven't modeled the new X series from Sundown, I would seriously look into those, and even consider one. I was considering either a TC Epic or Dayton HF, but I'm really reconsidering my choices now after seeing those.

On with the good stuff!



Modeling all with 500w input unless otherwise noted. Most drivers are 15's, with an 18 here and there.

RE Audio SXPro15D2 - $358
http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/RE-Audio-SXPRO15-15-Triple-Stack-Magnet-Rubatek-Foam-Surround-Pro-Woofer-

SXPRO15D2-REA13-SXPRO15-D2

Models nicely in 4ft3, two 4in ports, tuned to 24.93Hz, heavy fill
F3 - 40Hz
F6 - 26Hz
F10 - 21Hz
Custom Amplitude Response doesn't start to really drop off until Fb (25Hz)
115.4db @ 50Hz
114.5db @ 40Hz
113db @ 30Hz
106db @ 20Hz
98db @ 15Hz

Xmax of 22mm isn't reached until 12.5Hz
Group Delay peaks @ 19.5msecs @ 21Hz
Vent Velocity peaks at 15.1m/s @ 20Hz
Three 4in ports may be used to lower VV to 10m/s @ 21Hz, or a single 6in port for 13.4m/s @ 20-21Hz

RE Audio SX18-D2 - $339
http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/RE-Audio-SX18-D2-18-Dual-2-Ohm-SX-Series-Car-Subwoofer-SXX18-D2-SX18D2-

SXX18D2-REA-SX18-D2

Again, models nicely. Rather large enclosure based on the approx. 6ft3 you mentioned in your measurements. Two

6in ports tuned to 28Hz with heavy fill.
F3 - 33.81Hz
F6 - 26.5Hz
F10 - 22Hz
Gradually slopes off from about 50Hz to 25Hz, where amplitude starts to slope more sharply.
119db @ 50Hz
118db @ 40Hz
115db @ 30Hz
107db @ 20Hz

Xmax of 22mm is never exceeded with 500w. Peaks at 19.2mm @ 7.5Hz and lower.
Group Delay peaks at 19.59msecs @ 21Hz
Vent Velocity peaks at 9.5m/s @ about 21.5Hz. Three 6in ports could be used to lower it to 6.34m/s

RE Audio SRX15D2 - $219
http://www.woofersetc.com/p-8399-srx15d2-re-audio-15-srx-series-dual-2-ohm-subwoofer.aspx

Can be used in sealed or ported enclosures.
RE recommends 2ft3 is optimal for this driver. modeling in Bass Box Pro shows 3ft3 is better. Can get a couple

extra db and Xmax is still very well under it's limit at max power of 300w.

Sealed with "typical" filling -
Qtc - 0.621
F3 - 47.59Hz
F6 - 34Hz
F10 - 25Hz
112.9db @ 50Hz
111.1db @ 40Hz
108db @ 30Hz
102.1db @ 20Hz
Xmax peaks at 11.5mm @ 7Hz. Plenty of extension left. If power handling rating is conservative and driver can

handle more, then Xmax would hit 18mm @ approximately 750w. 20Hz would be about 106db at this power level.

Ported -
RE recommends a 3ft3 box tuned at 34Hz
A box of 5.25ft3, three 4in ports, and "heavy" filling provides a few extra db. Other than a much more

consistant group delay, and a few extra db, there isn't much difference.The following is with the mentioned

5.25ft3 box -
F3 - 28Hz
F6 - 23.31Hz
F10 - 19.25Hz
Starts sloping off around 40Hz
300w input:
116db @ 50Hz
115db @ 40Hz
113db @ 30Hz
106.5db @ 20Hz

Xmax is reached at about 16.5Hz
Group delay is a little high, peaking around 17msec @ 19Hz
Vent velocity maxes at 10m/sec between 18-19Hz

MTX TR7515-22 - $219
http://www.woofersetc.com/p-6895-tr7515-22-mtx-15-1200-watt-dual-2-ohm-subwoofer.aspx

Sealed or ported
MTX recommends 1.75ft3 for sealed. Using larger doesn't provide much benefit, if any at all. Sealed gives less

performance than the above mentioned RE driver.

Ported -
This driver may have potential. MTX recommends a 2.5ft3 box, but no tuning frequency. Using the "suggest fb"

button in Bass Box Pro, it recommends 30.65Hz. This give numbers and models similar to the above drivers.

However, Xmax is reached with 500w input at 19Hz. For fun, I modeled it in a 6ft3 box, tuned to 18Hz.
F3 - 29.57Hz
F6 - 18.42Hz
F10 - 14.5Hz
Shallow slope until about 16Hz, then drops off sharply
115db @ 15Hz
114.5db @ 40Hz
113db @ 30Hz
110.5 @ 20Hz
107db @ 15Hz

Xmax is reached around 14.65Hz
Group Delay get wonky and rises above 20msec once we get to 20Hz and lower.Hits 30msec at 18Hz, 40msec around

16.5Hz and continues to rise to a peak of 45.34msec @ 14.82Hz.
Vent velocity peaks at 21.5m/s @ 15Hz, 13.5m/s @ 20Hz, 5.5m/s @ 30Hz

SSA Icon 15 - $360
http://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com/products/icon-15-sound-solutions-audio-15-1250w-icon-series-subwoofer.html

Sealed or ported.

Works well in a 3ft3 sealed enclosure with no filling.An enclosure up to 5.5ft3 can be used for only a couple

extra db (maybe 2), but the driver will start running out of Xmax around, and below, 20Hz. Even with only 500w

input. More on this below.
Qtc - 0.63
F3 - 46.69Hz
F6 - 34Hz
F10 - 25Hz

Output
114.5db @ 50Hz
113db @ 40Hz
109.5db @ 30Hz
103.5db @ 20Hz

Xmax is well controlled in a 3ft3 box. Even with 1000wrms, Xmax never exceeds published rating of 21mm. It

peaks at 18.7mm @ 8Hz.

Ported 5ft3, tuned to 20Hz, one 6in port, no filling
F3 - 28.42
F6 - 20Hz
F10 - 15.93Hz

SPL w/500wrms input:
116.6db @ 50Hz
115.9db @ 40Hz
114.5db @ 30Hz
111.1db @ 20hz
105.5db @ 15Hz

Xmax of 21mm is reached at 15Hz with 500wrms. With 1000wrms, 16.52Hz is Xmax limit (111db!).
Group Delay peaks at 35.3msec / 15.65Hz. But 20Hz is 23msec. Shouldn't be any problems with group delay.
Vent Velocity, with a 6in port and 500wrms, it peaks at 19.9m/s @ 16Hz. A slotted port may be considered,

especially if using more than 500wrms.
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The rest of the drivers I came across that I thought would be good candidates didn't model so greatly. All had similar results. Some of those results had to be reached with quite high group delays. The last one I modeled above, the SSA Icon, modeled better than any of these remaining drivers. So my "research" stops here. I did model the new Sundown X series 15 just for fun though. And while it looked good, it's low sensitivity does come into play. It likes a lot of juice, but didn't hit Xmax in modeling with 1500wrms until about 13Hz. If OP has the power to run one of these behemoths, I would definitely consider one.
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