New Sundown X Series drivers - Wow! - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 56 Old 04-11-2013, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

Can someone post the TS specs of the Z series V4 so we don't have to register on another site?

Thanks!!

All of the Z v.4 T/S specs aren't published yet as we did some tweaking for production compared to prototypes -- all of the complete specs will start to roll out some time in May as will the full production X T/S specs (they are a bit different from the prototypes specs posted).

- Jacob Fuller
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post #32 of 56 Old 04-11-2013, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundownz View Post

We aren't ready to release any solid information but the SI HT line will grow to include some bigger drivers; Nick will be the one to come out with that information when it's available. When they are ready they will be more optimized for the HT realm than Sundown products.

I know you said Nick will have the details later, but do you know if "bigger drivers" means 21" drivers or does it mean heavier 18" drivers with a higher x-max?
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post #33 of 56 Old 04-11-2013, 07:23 AM
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We'll announce what is coming a bit down the line. As of right now there is no information ready to release.

- Jacob Fuller
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post #34 of 56 Old 04-11-2013, 09:05 AM
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post #35 of 56 Old 04-11-2013, 09:28 AM
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Depending on final TSP's these look to be good candidates for LLT's; good xmax, but an xlim nearly twice the xmax. The need for a subsonic filter becomes less of a requirement. I won't get any, because I'm one of those inductance snobs, but these could be good for some folks.

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post #36 of 56 Old 04-11-2013, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

Depending on final TSP's these look to be good candidates for LLT's; good xmax, but an xlim nearly twice the xmax. The need for a subsonic filter becomes less of a requirement. I won't get any, because I'm one of those inductance snobs, but these could be good for some folks.

Sure. Although the current SI 18's are already well suited for LLT use. Whether or not one wants to use a HPF is up to them. I have never used one on mine.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #37 of 56 Old 04-11-2013, 01:15 PM
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nice bit on inductance by sundownz:

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/sundown-audio/534072-shorting-rings-why-do-we-use-them.html

i'd be interested to hear your thinking on what if any effects remain in the scenario where:

1. inductance is made linear with respect to coil position with shorting rings and pole sleeves, and
2. any frequency effects of energy storage in the bass are eq'd out

is there then any difference (other than the low pass filtering effects) between a driver with a low inductance and one with a high inductance?

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #38 of 56 Old 04-11-2013, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

nice bit on inductance by sundownz:

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/sundown-audio/534072-shorting-rings-why-do-we-use-them.html

Very interesting and informative with nice graphs clearly showing the effects of different motor designs.

Picking a nit though:

".. the field can be absorbed by a conductive material in or around the coil -- so shorting rings come into play."

A magnetic field is not absorbed by a non-magnetic conductor.

I believe the way it works is that a conductive ring acts as a 1-turn electromagnet whose field opposes that induced by the coil current, canceling the inductance modulation it causes.

Noah
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post #39 of 56 Old 04-11-2013, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

nice bit on inductance by sundownz:

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/sundown-audio/534072-shorting-rings-why-do-we-use-them.html

i'd be interested to hear your thinking on what if any effects remain in the scenario where:

1. inductance is made linear with respect to coil position with shorting rings and pole sleeves
2. any frequency effects of energy storage in the bass are eq'd out

is there then any different (other than the low pass filtering effects) between a driver with a low inductance and one with a high inductance?

Excellent write-up!

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #40 of 56 Old 04-11-2013, 02:53 PM
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Zaph often tests Le(x) on the drivers he tests. But he only tests small drivers. I should give it a try on my sub and see if I can show any inductance change with x position.

A great write up that is actually useful on the subject.
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post #41 of 56 Old 04-11-2013, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Jacob, I'm considering a 10 or 12 inch driver for my home setup. But here's the catch. This isn't mainly for HT use. I use my gear for about 95% music and 5% movies. I don't even currently have any surround speakers at the moment.

My mains are Infinity IL40's. Some big towers with 8in woofers that cleanly play down t0 the 30-35Hz range with ample output, sometimes too much to be honest (contrary to some reviews saying they lack in this area). How can I expect one of these to perform from 30Hz on down? I'm looking for clean and articulate. From what I'm reading, these are some stiff beasts, so my natural assumption is that they will be relatively articulate. Is this a fair assumption and can I expect them to perform as a SQ sub as opposed to a SPL sub? But I also want it to be able to deliver some "nice" output really down low where some HT material exists. My absolute limit on a driver is where the X 12in sits, that is $300. I actually would prefer a 10 due to size limitations I have for the enclosure.

Thanks
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post #42 of 56 Old 04-11-2013, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zagnutty View Post

...these are some stiff beasts, so my natural assumption is that they will be relatively articulate. Is this a fair assumption...

IMO no.

Not that they wouldn't be, but I don't see how stiffness is relevant.

Noah
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post #43 of 56 Old 04-11-2013, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zagnutty View Post

Jacob, I'm considering a 10 or 12 inch driver for my home setup. But here's the catch. This isn't mainly for HT use. I use my gear for about 95% music and 5% movies. I don't even currently have any surround speakers at the moment.

Not to put down these speakers, but, for musicality these would not be my first choice. I would instead go after something with a low Le and supple suspension, which is the opposite of what these drivers have to offer. Maybe 2, 12" dayton audio HF's?

YID DIY
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post #44 of 56 Old 04-12-2013, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

IMO no.

Not that they wouldn't be, but I don't see how stiffness is relevant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

Not to put down these speakers, but, for musicality these would not be my first choice. I would instead go after something with a low Le and supple suspension, which is the opposite of what these drivers have to offer. Maybe 2, 12" dayton audio HF's?

Thanks guys. My first choice was a Dayton HF actually. It's still at the top of the list. Curious how a TC Epic would compare to the HF.
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post #45 of 56 Old 03-02-2014, 01:19 AM
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Well, they are out now. They are $410 each for a 15.

Specs:
Product Description

X-15 D2:

1250 watts RMS
Re : 3.68 ohms
Fs : 20.51 Hz
Qes : 0.42
Qms : 4.81
Qts : 0.39
Le : 4.00 mH
Sd : 729 cm^2
Vas : 107 L
BL : 21.79 NA
Mms : 422 g
Cms : 142 uM/N
Sens : 85.17 dB 1w/1m

The sensitivity is low. The xmax isn't listed but I read 4" peak to peak. Designed for extension. I doubt it can beat an IDMAX for SQ but I am most curious.

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IDMAX 12INFINITY RS3 / POLK MONITOR 10/ALTEC 501 / INTEGRA 50.3/PARADIGM DSP 3400 / GOLDENEAR AON3

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post #46 of 56 Old 03-02-2014, 03:17 AM
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Xmax was listed as 30mm by 70% Bl and 50mm mechanical clearance. I would love to have a ZV4 with softer suspension but the X series are better value in my eyes. $409 for the X-15 and 585 for the 15" ZV4. These subs wont be the best SQ drivers but good enough for me and below 60hz. I would get a pro audio driver or other over a IDMax for SQ.

And Jacob or Sundown if your reading this I never got a response to my email I sent you. Is there a number I could call or another place to send an email?
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post #47 of 56 Old 03-02-2014, 03:48 AM
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Im looking for a 15 or 18 that plays 40hz and down. The advertised purpose of this sub is extension. I may try one. Maybe an 18. I am disappointed that there are no sealed/vented box recommendations on their web site.

NAD M15 /NAD M25 / PSB STRATUS GOLD / PSB STRATUS 6C /DENON AVR 3300/CARVER TFM 45/35 - ANTHEM MCA3/NAD T163
IDMAX 12INFINITY RS3 / POLK MONITOR 10/ALTEC 501 / INTEGRA 50.3/PARADIGM DSP 3400 / GOLDENEAR AON3

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post #48 of 56 Old 03-02-2014, 03:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tritiumglo View Post

Im looking for a 15 or 18 that plays 40hz and down. The advertised purpose of this sub is extension. I may try one. Maybe an 18. I am disappointed that there are no sealed/vented box recommendations on their web site.

They post full specs, model your own.

EDIT: Oh, jesus, they have full sketchup drawings of boxes for you.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/index.php/products/subwoofers/item/x-series.html "Box Specs and Cut Sheets"
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post #49 of 56 Old 03-02-2014, 05:47 AM
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Just happen to be modelling the X15 and ZV4 15. Both like a 1.75cuft sealed cabinet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

They post full specs, model your own.

EDIT: Oh, jesus, they have full sketchup drawings of boxes for you.

http://www.sundownaudio.com/index.php/products/subwoofers/item/x-series.html "Box Specs and Cut Sheets"
Just happen to be modelling the X15 and ZV4 15. Both like a 1.75cuft sealed cabinet.

Wow I have been to their site so many times and never clicked on the box designs. Pretty awesome find.
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post #50 of 56 Old 03-02-2014, 05:50 AM
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That is a good find. The link that has enclosure recommendations is blank.
The box spec and cut sheet is where the goodies are. Missed that. thx.

NAD M15 /NAD M25 / PSB STRATUS GOLD / PSB STRATUS 6C /DENON AVR 3300/CARVER TFM 45/35 - ANTHEM MCA3/NAD T163
IDMAX 12INFINITY RS3 / POLK MONITOR 10/ALTEC 501 / INTEGRA 50.3/PARADIGM DSP 3400 / GOLDENEAR AON3

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post #51 of 56 Old 03-03-2014, 07:14 AM
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Dammit, I was reading through this and thought that SI were releasing new HT drivers! Then I realised the posts were from this time last year... :facepalm: lol
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post #52 of 56 Old 07-04-2014, 05:22 AM
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Lookie what I did

notnyt likes this.
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post #53 of 56 Old 07-04-2014, 07:58 AM
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Nice! That is a beefy surround. I'm guessing you are powering it with the clone?
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post #54 of 56 Old 07-04-2014, 09:51 AM
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For now yes, I'll be getting a serviced Crown K2 next week on trial, if it does the job I'll use that one. The clone is normally used to power 4 dual opposed subs.
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post #55 of 56 Old 07-04-2014, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by TimVG View Post
For now yes, I'll be getting a serviced Crown K2 next week on trial, if it does the job I'll use that one. The clone is normally used to power 4 dual opposed subs.
Very nice.
How do you like the performance of the sub? Does it have good extension as SA claims?

NAD M15 /NAD M25 / PSB STRATUS GOLD / PSB STRATUS 6C /DENON AVR 3300/CARVER TFM 45/35 - ANTHEM MCA3/NAD T163
IDMAX 12INFINITY RS3 / POLK MONITOR 10/ALTEC 501 / INTEGRA 50.3/PARADIGM DSP 3400 / GOLDENEAR AON3

An Observer of many philosophies, a slave to none.
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post #56 of 56 Old 07-04-2014, 11:15 AM
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Very nice.
How do you like the performance of the sub? Does it have good extension as SA claims?
This is a great driver, very well built and ditto performance. The stroke this thing can produce is incredible.
I've owned two ported 2012 captivators, currently own 4 dual opposed subs with eigth 12" drivers in total. And this thing still amazed me when I let it cut loose. Tuning is around ~14hz (actually 16hz, but I used enough dampening material to counter port and box resonances, this lowered the tuning and overall efficiency a bit).
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