"The Thread for A Thread Dedicated to DIY Speaker Build Options" - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 04-11-2013, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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I didn't want to just go ahead and start a bona fide thread without some more insight/opinion so I figured this may be a good place to start.

In a nut shell:

It doesn't take long to discover that there are a TON of build threads both here (AVS) and all over the www. That's great of course, but it can get a bit dizzying when you're a bit of a novice (like me) and are looking for certain options, at a certain price-point, with a certain level of expertise/time allowance in mind.

So what about a thread dedicated to such things? I suppose there's a myriad of ways of setting it up, but it could be as simple as making divisions amongst builds in regard to budget, design (2 or 3 way, sealed/ported, etc), or design goals (hi-output/HTmusic, etc).

Sticking to proven builds- with measurements being a bonus- sounds like a good baseline to me, but really the main goal would be a one-stop area where folks could get a good idea what's available to them on the DIY dark-side.

I also think it would be a great avenue for some of the nice guys here to start getting more credit/exposure for their expertise and/or services offered to the community.

Thoughts?

thanks,

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #2 of 16 Old 04-11-2013, 07:57 AM
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This sounds like a great idea. I don't have much input other than limiting the jibber jabber and keeping on task. Sometimes these threads can go on for 3-5 pages before any useful information is laid out. By then most people (myself included) will get bored or tired of reading and get no real info when it may be the very next post on the next page.

Look at me already doing it on this post, lol. I hope you get what I'm trying to say.

I look forward to such a thread!
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post #3 of 16 Old 04-11-2013, 08:24 AM - Thread Starter
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^ thanks and I concur with your thoughts re the OT stuff sometimes. My main wish would be for multiple people to be able to update the initial post/posts. That way it doesn't hinge on one person to keep the latest and greatest current. I don't know if this is possible, but I'm doubtful as I do not believe I've seen it elsewhere- at least on avs.

I'd be willing to do it- and I have plenty of time right now- but I'm in a bit of a transition period, employment-wise and I cannot guarantee I'll have this kind of time, perpetually.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #4 of 16 Old 04-11-2013, 09:43 AM
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There is a master thread of proven designs at PETT...
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?211558-Links-to-existing-DIY-speaker-designs

And AVS has the analog for subs
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1104368/master-index-of-diy-subwoofer-projects/0_100

Peruse them and you quickly drown in all the options. What's missing is the kind of thing you mention: what folks are actually building today and how they come out relative to the designer's intent. Kind of a virtual DIY get-together...

Have fun,
Frank
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post #5 of 16 Old 04-11-2013, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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^ thanks for links. I feel some kind model organization- rather than clicking on 50 individual links to sites with multiple builds- would really help out a lot of folks. It's nice that they're at least consolidated there, though.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #6 of 16 Old 04-11-2013, 12:04 PM
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Would it be possible/allowable to have a "community" screen name for such a purpose?

Example idea would be to have access for a select few members who would share a screen name and password. Initial post could be to introduce who will be able to post/edit the thread. Each post/edit could be accompanied by the posters actual screen name.

Just a quick thought...
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post #7 of 16 Old 04-11-2013, 01:12 PM
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in my estimation, there are just too many options for this to work.

it was originally what i was going to do with the "master list..." but after a while i discovered that everybody seems to want to sort on something different.

so now i just view the list as a partial inspiration for folks to get a sense of some of the different possibilities.

often, folks don't even know what they want and their budgets and other constraints change as they see what is available, so if a person starts off sorting, they might miss something that might make more sense.

also drivers come and go and prices change, so that makes it even more of a pita to keep updated.

sealed, ported, horn, tuning frequencies, size enclosures, xmax, inductance, power handling, duratex, gloss black, veneer, slot port, round port, dual opposed, down firing, front firing, plate amp, pro amp, flat pack, full kit, plans, no plans, movies, music, listening level, frequency extension, infinite baffle, infinitely confused....there are just way too many different ways to slice and dice subs for what you are talking about.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #8 of 16 Old 04-11-2013, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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^ gloss black, duratex, movies, xmax, power handling, etc.

Sorry, but I think you're needlessly over-complicating this.

I don't think anyone is anticipating an exhaustive list, just some of the more popular, proven, options.

Surely having some point of "jumping off" would serve those interested in/within the hobby better than what currently exists?

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #9 of 16 Old 04-11-2013, 03:40 PM
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Sort of like a flow-chart or decision tree with links to designs at the ends of the branches? Neat idea but that sounds like a lot of work unless it was really limited. How many 2-way designs with a 5-6" woofer and dome tweeter do you include? 2? 3? 20?
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post #10 of 16 Old 04-11-2013, 03:50 PM
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Would be nice to have the builds sorted out in a category but its going to be a lot of work.

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post #11 of 16 Old 04-11-2013, 06:19 PM
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"Sorry, but I think you're needlessly over-complicating this."

well, go for it then. :-)

every person is going to want to search on different things and every time that you add another variable, the amount of hassle increases at an exponential rate because you have to not only update the one that you are working on, but go back and research the whole list over again.

home theater shack ran into the same problem. there is no logical and agreed upon reasonable set of variables for a subwoofer taxonomy.

their solution was simply to categorize builds by driver.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #12 of 16 Old 04-11-2013, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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What about something as simple as

2 way designs under $100 per unit.
2 way designs $100-$200
2 way designs $200+

Ditto for 3 way designs.

Subwoofers could be divided similarly.

Either could be taken one step further if someone REALLY thought one loudspeaker was more music or HT orientated. I'm in the camp that a speaker needs to produce accurate, dynamic sound so I really don't make much of distinction between the two, but if someone was really so compelled, go for it.

Finishing and cabinet materials are of course up to the discretion of the DIY'er with ANY design- no real sense in convoluting the thread with them. Differing tweeter designs could simply be included within their $-category, proper.

Breaking all the available DIY designs into a million sub-categories was never the intent. That would be a mess and no better than simply pasting a million links to projects, for better and worse.

If this proves to really be particularly onerous it can get scrapped, no probs. I just never imagined it would become so.

Thanks,
James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #13 of 16 Old 04-11-2013, 07:26 PM
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I think you'd be complicating it by sorting by price - though I understand the impulse, given saving money is one of the common factors driving DIY. I'd personally want them sorted by design intent (full range, music with sub, HT, center channel) but I see how that gets blurry and complicated as well (line arrays, jack's of all trades, etc). But that's part of LTD02's point.

Whoever is going to keep it organized has to make that decision. IMO, a spreadsheet is really the way to organize this kind of data, but that's not terribly convenient for forums.
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post #14 of 16 Old 04-11-2013, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Correct: a SS isn't possible.

So, there would have to be some sort of division, somewhere. Budget seems like the simplest, most straight forward starting point to me. You could then view design methodologies within.

I've seen this work quite well with b&m speakers that obviously contain all the same characteristics- as a matter of fact, really, more when you consider the hundreds of manus and thousands of models. I think the problem here is that it appears some feel this would be a clearing house with hundreds and hundreds of designs when really- ideally at least- it would be a few dozen of the most proven designs. And yes, I feel 30+ designs really can cover the performance/budget gamut very well. Think about it as a "best of" or "best/well known" options.

How those are determined/updated was the thrust of this thread, but it doesn't appear it's going to get past the opinion that thousands of one off DIY builds already exist with more to come so it's pointless to consolidate some of the better/proven projects.

It's cool. No harm in throwing the idea out there. I suppose people can just continue to sift through the same (seemingly endless) DIY speaker corridors I am. No shortage of them, that's for certain...it's just much more tedious and chancy for noobs who cannot easily discern what offers the best/better performance for the $.

Thanks all

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #15 of 16 Old 04-12-2013, 04:51 AM
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At the risk of adding to the wank smile.gif, I think that presenting DIY designs is a useful way is a really interesting challenge.

If you, too, think that sounds interesting, you may enjoy this "Everything is Miscellaneous" talk:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3wOhXsjPYM


There are a lot of ways to begin a search. Here are just a few that come to mind, with some ideas about how each ways of seeking could be served:

* I just want to build speakers, but have no idea what to build... perhaps using my amazing powers of vision to browse a random collection of project pics will help me find a lead that I want to follow. Or some word-clouds from the text of the designs, and I'll click on some words that sound interesting to see designs where that word is mentioned.

* I want to use a specific driver... a web search serves this approach pretty well.

* I'm already familiar with many DIY designs... show me what's new, or popular.


So maybe you found an "in" and are looking at a particular design. What kind of "related" designs/builds could we show to help you continue your exploration?
* certainly other builds of the same design would be interesting
* other designs that use common drivers (or waveguides)
* other designs with similar words in their descriptions, or similar tags if we can get people to add tags (e.g. "constant directivity", "soft dome", "folded horn")
* similar specs such as driver size, cabinet dimensions, max SPL, sensitivity, crossover freq, crossover slope, with these specifics culled from the build descriptions and maintained by the community (similar to tags)
* builds the were published around the same date
* other designs by the same designer, or builders
You could algorithmically "score" other builds/designs for their relatedness, and show the top scorers with an indicator of why it's related (e.g. "also tagged with 'high sensitivity'", "also uses DNA-360", etc.). Use what people actually click on to help train and refine the relatedness scoring algorithm. Also show some randoms, so users don't get stuck in a dungeon, or if there are no strong "relateds".

So, this would basically be a web site. It is a potentially complicated undertaking, but you could start simple. I suggest making the info all community-maintained so that the burden does not fall on one person to enter it all (submit a build, add specs, tags, etc.). A "build" could be defined as a URL or collection of URLs. Maybe have some smarts to be able to crawl a thread on a web forum, so that you'd only have to enter one URL for a build thread. You'd probably also want a "design" entity, though not all "builds" would be associated with a "design". You could add metadata for the drivers, designer, builder, tags, crossover specs, etc. to these entities. You'd have to be mindful of content rights issues (who owns a build thread on a web forum?), but you can index the text from the links, show a snippet, and present the links along with their metadata. This could be an interesting project for a Computer Science student, or a software engineer that is looking for a project. smile.gif

-Max
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post #16 of 16 Old 04-12-2013, 09:07 AM
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Over on SMD Forum, they put together the final build thread and has only pics of the build along with the original poster's comments. All other comments are removed and it makes for a nice easy flow. I don't know who set them up like that. Just food for thought.
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