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post #1 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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If you had a choice between (16) FTW-21's (7 cubic feet each sealed) powered by (4) Lap clones vs. (24) SI-18's (5 cubic feet sealed) powered by (6) SV5000's which would you choose?

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post #2 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 05:14 PM
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Whoa! What are you going to use them for?
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post #3 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Foundation testing. biggrin.gif They are going in a dedicated theater in the house I am building. The theater is going to be 25x16 with 10' ceilings.

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post #4 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 05:34 PM
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What about a combination of the 2? The FTW's dig deeper and the SI's wheelhouse is higher up so you would have the best of both worlds? Not sure how hard it is to integrate 2 different drivers in a room but I bet others will chime in on that.


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post #5 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auburnu008 View Post

If you had a choice between (16) FTW-21's (7 cubic feet each sealed) powered by (4) Lap clones vs. (24) SI-18's (5 cubic feet sealed) powered by (6) SV5000's which would you choose?

No competition, I'd choose FTW. Because then you could later upgrade to 24 21's tongue.gif ...but that's just me.

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post #6 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 05:41 PM
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With that many drivers i honestly dont think you will notice any difference. 24 of the SI can dig as deep as you want without issues...
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post #7 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 05:43 PM
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Holy smokes. I'd go 21s for 2 reasons. More power and more displacement per enclosure. They are good up to 80hz no prob at all, probably higher if really needed to go any higher.

On another note may want to widen your room if at all possible though. I've got 8 21s across aprox 18' wide room with 2 more 21s above outer 2. You don't want a bunch of these behind a screen. You may have great plan but just throwing my 2 cents out there.
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post #8 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 05:51 PM
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112 cu ft total for FTW-21's vs 120 cu ft total for the SI18's.

~8% more sd with the 24 SI18's.

SI18's are rated for 600 watts, correct? FTW-21's are rated for twice that.

$175 (non pre-order price) x 24 = $4200.

$440 (pre order price) x 16 = $7040.

Given the sensitivity increase and double the power handling the FTW-21's should get significantly louder- but, they're also way more expensive.


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post #9 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 05:51 PM
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You won't need that many bro, I promise...

You guys are crazy....
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post #10 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 06:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel975 View Post

112 cu ft total for FTW-21's vs 120 cu ft total for the SI18's.

~8% more sd with the 24 SI18's.

SI18's are rated for 600 watts, correct? FTW-21's are rated for twice that.

$175 (non pre-order price) x 24 = $4200.

$440 (pre order price) x 16 = $7040. ~$11200 with shipping

Given the sensitivity increase and double the power handling the FTW-21's should get significantly louder- but, they're also way more expensive.

Dont forget shipping the FTW to the US and exchange rate puts them around $700 each. I dont know shipping for the SI
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post #11 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 06:18 PM
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Dont forget shipping the FTW to the US and exchange rate puts them around $700 each. I dont know shipping for the SI

Trust me, shipping will not be $250+ each on the pre-order.

That is of course, you want to pay that much, then well....

You guys are crazy....
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post #12 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 06:27 PM
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Thats how much it cost for me to get my pair shipped to MN. However a pallet of them will be cheaper but I dont know by how much.
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post #13 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 06:27 PM
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You won't need that many bro, I promise...

No such thing my friend.

OP, makes sure to take lots of pictures. I'd go for the 21s.

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post #14 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 06:35 PM
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Because they're both COMPLETELY overkill here is my vote.

16, FTW 21's!

Why? Because I couldn't imagine trying to build 24 enclosures and cutouts for all those 18" subs and also installing and wiring 6 amps that go with them. It would be less work all around if going with the FTW's. Now if it was based solely on $$$ I would go with 12, SI 18's and three amps.

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post #15 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 06:40 PM - Thread Starter
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I know this probably sounds like a troll post. Especially since I have been making threads about it for forever but I swear it is going to happen. Just not sure what route to take. I will post a little more in detail about my current plan once I get back to my computer. I am typing this on my phone.

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post #16 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 06:45 PM
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My vote is for 8 subs, 12 max!

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post #17 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 07:26 PM
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It took me about a month to build 4 subs....and you want to build 16 or 24... Oh god. My vote would be the 21's .


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post #18 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 07:48 PM
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16 of the 21's....because then you can do a DBA.

A good number for DBA with 18's (assuming you are buying more than 16) would be 32.
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post #19 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 08:28 PM
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FTW 21" no question. Quality vs Quantity. I'll always choose quality.

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post #20 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 09:13 PM
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being the owner of 4 SI's, that quality argument doesnt hold water with me and i have heard it from you before. i have owned several high quality ID subs before these SI's (Rythmik FV15HP, SVS PB and SB 13 Ultra to name a few), also THTLP's with Dayton HF drivers, and these SI's sound every bit as good if not better than any other sub i have had.

not trying to start a fight, just saying. i know your close to the owner and all, but we need to stay non bias here. this driver is definitely appealing at this pre order price. anyone looking at either of the hot 18's should check these out. no question.

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post #21 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

being the owner of 4 SI's, that quality argument doesnt hold water with me and i have heard it from you before. i have owned several high quality ID subs before these SI's (Rythmik FV15HP, SVS PB and SB 13 Ultra to name a few), also THTLP's with Dayton HF drivers, and these SI's sound every bit as good if not better than any other sub i have had.

not trying to start a fight, just saying. i know your close to the owner and all, but we need to stay non bias here. this driver is definitely appealing at this pre order price. anyone looking at either of the hot 18's should check these out. no question.

Well said.

Just something to remember; a higher "quality" driver that is pushed further than a lower "quality" driver (quantity over quality), won't sound any better, in fact it can in all actuality sound worse. I've had the pleasure of running an Ultra, and for what I was looking to spend on this current build, I'm pretty sure positive my 6 driver SI setup would outperform my single Ultra, and sound just as good doing it. Oh, and up until just recently, I could have purchased all 6 of them for about the price of one Ultra. Let's also keep in mind the amp to drive them will cost about 1/2 as much as well. wink.gif

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post #22 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 10:20 PM
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being the owner of 4 SI's, that quality argument doesnt hold water with me and i have heard it from you before. i have owned several high quality ID subs before these SI's (Rythmik FV15HP, SVS PB and SB 13 Ultra to name a few), also THTLP's with Dayton HF drivers, and these SI's sound every bit as good if not better than any other sub i have had.

not trying to start a fight, just saying. i know your close to the owner and all, but we need to stay non bias here. this driver is definitely appealing at this pre order price. anyone looking at either of the hot 18's should check these out. no question.

I'm not talking specifically mach 5, any quality driver. TC, Exodus, JBL as well as countless others. You say to stay non bias but are recommending the SI's will sound just as good, which you have........ and I'm recommending the 21's, which I have...... Problem?
And I've built with the SI's already, 4 in fact for customers. The first 2 did not turn out well, both drivers went up in smoke with 500 watt plate amps, I replaced them with daytons, there was a whole thread about it. You can have any sub you want but just because you don't think it's a valid reason to go with higher quality drivers, doesn't mean it's not. How bout you ask anyone with high quality drivers what they think about the subject? you'll get the same response as I had.
I'm speaking from experience, though I may not have as much as Ricci, Bosso, Scott and a bunch of other guys, I've still had well over 100 subs and built over 60 builds. I have drawn my own conclusions from my experience and I stand buy it 100%.

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post #23 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 10:24 PM
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What is the Le of the FTW-21?
How do they perform at 120Hz?

I'm thinking 4 FTW-21 drivers and the rest in 18" drivers if necessary.
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post #24 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 10:30 PM
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^ Brian and bass addict

I agree where the before post went but comparing 6si to an ultra rolleyes.gif

That's six times the space and six times the cost of wood and 6 times the TIME of building the enclosures (if separate), 6 times the baffles cuts , etc.... And all to compare to one driver with more power.

Don't get me wrong the SI has its place but its not in comparison with higher power handling/high Xmax drivers. They have their pros but many cons that price won't overtake it's cons. If someone wants to take up a LOT of space and use a bunch of drivers to perform as well as some other brands with fewer drivers while saving money then the SI is a fit. There are just a lot of drivers that cost anywhere from a little more to a whole lot more that will out perform them and take up a vastly smaller space.

But like I said, I liked where the before post was going. The SI is a quality driver but has its limitations.
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post #25 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 10:35 PM
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N8,

I heard about one going up in smoke but not all of them. What's the link or what were the specs?
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post #26 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 10:37 PM - Thread Starter
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My original plan was to get 16 SI-18's and build 4 towers of 4 and bridge a SV5000 to each tower. Then after seeing a couple of SI builds with 8 drivers under the screen I went up to 24 by adding 8 under the screen and still doing the 4 towers. Now after seeing this 21's are back I am second guessing that and also thinking about 4 towers of 21's. The price difference isn't really a big factor in the decision. And I hear SI is working on a beefy 18" driver as well. Decisions decisions.......

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post #27 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

What is the Le of the FTW-21?
How do they perform at 120Hz?

I'm thinking 4 FTW-21 drivers and the rest in 18" drivers if necessary.

I'd run a graph for you but my avr is out for repair. Maybe someone could run a sweep as I'd like to see myself. They are perfectly fine at 80hz in 6.5cuft and would imagine are fine up to 100 and possibly even higher. If nobody runs a sweep I will in about 2 weeks.
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post #28 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 10:51 PM
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I'd run a graph for you but my avr is out for repair. Maybe someone could run a sweep as I'd like to see myself. They are perfectly fine at 80hz in 6.5cuft and would imagine are fine up to 100 and possibly even higher. If nobody runs a sweep I will in about 2 weeks.

Thanks, I'm really curious to know as large powerful drivers often come with a compromise of high inductance as well.
LMS 5400 is the only rare beast I've seen that is large, powerful, and relatively low inductance.
Anyone want to send a unit to Ricci for testing?
I'd like to see some distortion numbers as well.
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post #29 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 10:58 PM
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^ Brian and bass addict

I agree where the before post went but comparing 6si to an ultra rolleyes.gif

That's six times the space and six times the cost of wood and 6 times the TIME of building the enclosures (if separate), 6 times the baffles cuts , etc.... And all to compare to one driver with more power.

Don't get me wrong the SI has its place but its not in comparison with higher power handling/high Xmax drivers. They have their pros but many cons that price won't overtake it's cons. If someone wants to take up a LOT of space and use a bunch of drivers to perform as well as some other brands with fewer drivers while saving money then the SI is a fit. There are just a lot of drivers that cost anywhere from a little more to a whole lot more that will out perform them and take up a vastly smaller space.

But like I said, I liked where the before post was going. The SI is a quality driver but has its limitations.

My point was extreme but why can't you understand the pertinence with my post. I was exactly the person that had an Ultra and just recently build 6 SI's. Your above post further impresses upon the fact that they perform equally for less. (See continued response below that SQ isn't just related to driver alone but FR as well).

It's funny you mention six times the price for the wood. So let's use your math. Let's see here; a single Ultra requires one sheet of 3/4" MDF, and my six required 6 sheets. That's $48.00 compared to $288.00. So I spend $240.00 more so far. (I'm going to bypass your time estimation as I built 2 cabs and it didn't take me 6x as long). My six SI's were around $1050.00ish shipped. So now I've spent $200.00 more on drivers, using the current Ultra pricing, which is less than it was when I ordered my SI's. Now let's figure $550.00 for dual EP4000's compared to 1700.00 for dual clones for the Ultra (one will inevitably grenade requiring you to purchase a second biggrin.gif).

I have now built a much better setup for over $700.00 less than the Ultra. smile.gif

On a serious note, most everyone on this forum has more than one subwoofer. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that most have more than four. So why isn't a six to one a valid argument? Also take into consideration that I have a much, much better chance at smoothing out room response with a multi setup approach. wink.gif If you have money to burn and are extremely limited on space, and don't care about a great FR, then sure, the Ultra is a great driver. But for the majority of us, it makes much better sense going other directions.

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post #30 of 55 Old 04-11-2013, 11:08 PM
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How about 8 x FTW-21 and 8 x LMS-5400?
How big of a room would you need to not die from head explosion (implosion from SPL?) with this setup?
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