Just another Dual 18" dayton build thread.. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 50 Old 04-19-2013, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, it started with me looking for a better sub for my surround sound system, and now ive been talked into going the DIY route. I got talked into going from one 18" to two of them before i finished the first. Ive posted many small threads asking all the small questions, and hopefully Ive gained enough knowledge to really get the ball rolling. I figured i would go ahead and start a new thread and post my progress from the start. I wish i could afford what some of ya'll have built in these threads, as I am in awe of some of them (Gorrila, Carp, Sibuna, etc..), but Im pretty happy/excited about what im working with for starters.

Ive got the Onkyo 809 receiver, a CV1800 powering the front L/R speakers which are both CV XLS-15's. Ive got an XLS-6C for Center speaker and XLS-6's for the back left and right.

For the sub setup, I got an EP4000, 2 Dayton 18" HO subs, a 10 pound carton of polyfil, a tube of PL premium, 16 ounces of wood glue, half a gallon of duratex, a 9" textured roller, simple little binding posts, black chrome spikes for the feet, and 50ft of 12 gauge wire.

Ill post what pics i have here in a couple of posts. I only have my phone for a camera, so sorry about that. I really want to thank all of the regulars on these forums, for they are who talked me into this, and also the reason Ive got the confidence to pull this off. I have zero experience with woodwork, caulking, painting, finishing things like this. Wish me luck! Here is where i am so far..



got the flatpack for the first one in from DIYsoundgroup, and did a quick dry run at the office.



started gluing the first one here. I dont really have much for tools (basically none, lol. I live in a one bed apartment). I didnt even have clamps at this point.



moving right along on the glueing of first box.. got a buddy to lend me a couple assorted clamps.



This was a pleasant treat, i have a buddy who runs a CNC for a living.. he said he could make me a box in no time, for no cost. He even had MDF lying around. I threw him 50 bones anyhow for making my life easier.. This is also where i finally decided to move forward with two of them from the getgo, instead of one.. Ive got the ep4000 which is good for two, anyhow, so why not.



Gluing the second box together..



still gluing number two..



while number two is drying, i got number one sanded down. Ive got to tell ya'll, the fun of "DIY" went right out the window at this point. I sanded by hand. Thats not much fun at all smile.gif . anyhow, it makes it all that much more satisfying, now that ive got so much of me invested in these badboys. Ill post a few more pics on the next post so as not to congest it in one post. Making progress..
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post #2 of 50 Old 04-19-2013, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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got my ep4000 in.. Nice.. not as pretty as the CV1800 (i like dark black, not this greyish color, but i dont mind too much, ill be probably placing this amp on the sub in the corner for starters).



Booom, one sweet set of gloves for use with the PL premium..



Just testing the placement of where the second sub will go.. for a one bed apartment, with lots of speakers in it, I still dont think it'll look or feel too congested once these badboys are complete. That makes me happy smile.gif


Thats all ive got so far. after i get outta work today, ill hit up happy hour at my local watering hole, then go home and play with my 10 inches of caulk, and get all that taken care of this weekend, hopefully.

On monday, a half gallon of duratex should be here, so I can get to painting. Ill also be filling a couple of tiny little spots with some drywall spackle, so hopefully the painting process goes smooth. Ive never done this, so Im a bit nervous about getting it right.

My first sub should be here by thursday at the latest, from what I hear. So hopefully by the end of next week, Ill have the first one up and running!
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post #3 of 50 Old 04-19-2013, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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the other sub will go on the opposite side of the couch, BTW.

Im thinking when i get all this done, there's lots more ill want to do, now that ive been introduced to these forums.. I want to build two smaller "rack" style cabinets to replace my entertainment center, so i can get a center channel speaker to match the left and rights, and have a cabinet on each side for my components. I also want to build ALL my speakers for the system now, and get rid of the CV's. But lets not get ahead of ourselves smile.gif . It'll happen though, Ive got it stuck in my head.

This stuff is kinda expensive for someone like me, but golly it sure is fun, and it gets you hooked rather quickly. I blame all the regulars on here for that. lol.
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post #4 of 50 Old 04-19-2013, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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the other crazy thing.. the more i read, the more i want to do. WAF isnt an issue for me, and after reading some of the IB threads and the Folded Horn threads.. I think i could have easily put two rediculous horns right where these subs are going. I have zero qualms with a noise-making fridge sitting on each side of me smack dab in the living room cool.gif .. again, in time.. gotta walk before ya crawl, allegedly
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post #5 of 50 Old 04-19-2013, 01:52 PM
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looking good. sealed subs tend to have a highish natural rolloff point, so can often benefit from eq to help bring up the bottom end.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #6 of 50 Old 04-19-2013, 01:59 PM
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Jealous that you will actually have your drivers. Ordered my Daytons 3 weeks ago, they were supposed to be in yesterday and now it's pushed back 2 months! frown.gif
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post #7 of 50 Old 04-19-2013, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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its not pushed back two months. i called. their computers do that by default. there was an issue at the chicago train station with a seperate cart. they should be in tuesday for the people that already ordered. and there is a second batch coming shortly after. Hope that made your day, it made mine!

LTD.. i know its hard to guess right, but where would you guess these would roll off at without eq.. just ballpark.. Im just curious, because it will take me a bit to be able to buy an eq, and mic and learn rew and whatnot. im hoping ill enjoy it as is, in the mean time. Hope its not TOO high. I dont want to be dissappointed after $1100, lol smile.gif
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post #8 of 50 Old 04-19-2013, 02:17 PM
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Inroom? Probably around 30hz just like every one else. wink.gif

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #9 of 50 Old 04-19-2013, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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awww man frown.gif i want to be at 20hz at least.. what about with a BFD a cheap mic, and REW? Again, i know the room matters, but just ballpark.. if it gives a slight idea, my apartment is L shaped, but its not very big at all. the small part of the L is prolly 1600^3 ft and the long part of the L is maybe 1900^3... and thats leaning towards the high side. its probably less.

Im hoping i can figure out the eq'ing and rew fairly easily. Alot of it doesnt totally make sense to me yet. i get the very basics of what im wanting, but thats it.
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post #10 of 50 Old 04-19-2013, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickThatStands View Post

its not pushed back two months. i called. their computers do that by default. there was an issue at the chicago train station with a seperate cart. they should be in tuesday for the people that already ordered. and there is a second batch coming shortly after. Hope that made your day, it made mine!

That would be awesome! I called today too and was told differently so I hope whoever you talked to had the more accurate info smile.gif Your enclosures look good! Mine will be nearly identical- 2x flat packs + EP4000.
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post #11 of 50 Old 04-19-2013, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickThatStands View Post

awww man frown.gif i want to be at 20hz at least.. what about with a BFD a cheap mic, and REW? Again, i know the room matters, but just ballpark.. if it gives a slight idea, my apartment is L shaped, but its not very big at all. the small part of the L is prolly 1600^3 ft and the long part of the L is maybe 1900^3... and thats leaning towards the high side. its probably less.

Im hoping i can figure out the eq'ing and rew fairly easily. Alot of it doesnt totally make sense to me yet. i get the very basics of what im wanting, but thats it.

Check out measurements for your sub here: http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=89&mset=96

 
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post #12 of 50 Old 04-19-2013, 04:03 PM
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"...i want to be at 20hz at least..."

don't worry too much there. your combo should be able to produce roughly 115db or more in your room at 20hz, which is quite considerable. eq is just required to help balance everything out.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #13 of 50 Old 04-19-2013, 07:19 PM
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You'll have no problem with a good amount of output at 20 Hz, especially if you are able to boost in that region with the subwoofer EQ in your receiver (not all that familiar with the specifics of your Onkyo). My Onkyo allows boost at 25Hz. That could help flatten your curve. I imagine yours will have the same.

Dan
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post #14 of 50 Old 04-19-2013, 07:24 PM
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interesting idea. even if the eq in the onkyo doesn't go that low, it could be used to cut the higher frequencies and then the overall level could be increased which should provide much of the same benefit as very low end eq boost.

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post #15 of 50 Old 04-20-2013, 07:01 AM
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Personally, I use the parametric EQ in my 500W Dayton amp to get my response flat down to 25hz even though it rolls off naturally higher than that. (my sub is different than in this thread)



25, 40, 63, 100 Hz are the bands that you can adjust up and down 6 dB on my Onkyo, so you can tweak the curve a lot just with the receiver. Like you said, if needed you could boost the low end and drop the upper sub frequencies to help flatten the curve, and then just adjust the overall level as needed once the curve is flat.



Dan
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post #16 of 50 Old 04-20-2013, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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yeah that makes sense, cut the high end.. how do you adjust the overall level after that? My receiver seems to be a decent one, so that should work. ill toy around with my receiver today a little. or do you mean, after i cut the top end, i can simply turn it up louder? and thanks to think link from data-bass. ive read that before. i need to learn how many volts equals how many watts and stuff like that still, but i get the idea. I think im gonna be pretty happy once i actually get two of them in here. Im just getting up for the day (rocking a sweet hangover, too). Think im gonna go grab the stuff to do a little seafood boil and do some some spackling, sanding and sealing. Hopefully the food will help lure a buddy who doesnt mind helping with the sanding over biggrin.gif
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post #17 of 50 Old 04-20-2013, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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another question... there's really no need for me to turn the gain down on the amp at all, right? I was planning on have the gain all the way up. i always keep it there on the amp for my fronts, figured i'd do the same on this one. Im just asking because i know with plate amps alot of times, people tell you to just turn it to 9 o'clock, but that just sounds like a waste..
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post #18 of 50 Old 04-20-2013, 10:45 AM
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post #19 of 50 Old 04-20-2013, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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really!? i just looked at the amp, and thats hardly any power.. Any reason for that? Can this amp not handle at least a little more of that? Im just trying to figure out the best route to go. I mean according to the tests, the amp only puts out 650 watts per channel in 4 ohms, and these speakers can handle 900 rms.. So there is no need to use even half of the gain on the amp?
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post #20 of 50 Old 04-20-2013, 12:15 PM
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post #21 of 50 Old 04-20-2013, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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hahaha, phewww! Thats better. I was wondering there for a minute.. lol
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post #22 of 50 Old 04-20-2013, 12:31 PM
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Nick, I think if you spend some time searching/reading the forum for "gain structure" you should find what you are looking for. Wish I could be more helpful but unfortunately i'm still living vicariously through builds like this until I can afford to do my own smile.gif
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post #23 of 50 Old 04-20-2013, 12:33 PM - Thread Starter
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gain structure.. havent really read anything specific on that. I'll check it out. Thank you, sir
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post #24 of 50 Old 04-22-2013, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Woot woot! Thanks Rick Craig for the Duratex, the Roller, and the awesome packing job! (All those hot pocket coupons you threw in there, free of charge rock!) biggrin.gif

Well... its a little gloomy out today, but i think Im going to try and get the painting started today anyhow. Getting closer.. How do i add my build thread to my signature? Guess i can fiddlefart around with it and try and figure it out myself.
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post #25 of 50 Old 04-22-2013, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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just testing my signature out real quick..
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post #26 of 50 Old 04-22-2013, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickThatStands View Post

really!? i just looked at the amp, and thats hardly any power.. Any reason for that? Can this amp not handle at least a little more of that? Im just trying to figure out the best route to go. I mean according to the tests, the amp only puts out 650 watts per channel in 4 ohms, and these speakers can handle 900 rms.. So there is no need to use even half of the gain on the amp?

Input gain and output gain are two different things.
Some amps (the more expensive ones) have adjustable sensitivity.
The sensitivity determines the relationship between the two.

Since your's is fixed, you have to increase the input voltage the amp is receiving (that is determined by your upstream devices).

The amp will tell you when it has ran out of power because the red light clip lights will activate;
if they haven't, then you can assume the amp has more power it can deliver.
Which I assume is the case here...
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post #27 of 50 Old 04-22-2013, 04:19 PM - Thread Starter
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so should my "upstream devices" be good enough in this situation? Im guessing you mean the receiver? Its an Onkyo809. Thanks for any new info/help/advice
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post #28 of 50 Old 04-23-2013, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I just got some good news.. Looks like i finally will have my extra HTiB sold on friday, which will give me the mula i need to go ahead and order the second 18" dayton, instead of having to wait another week or two. Thats good stuff. thought I would share
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post #29 of 50 Old 04-23-2013, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright.. slapped a layer of duratex on all but the bottoms of both boxes. Its starting to look like a subwoofer box to me now. Im thinking about an hour and a half and i can slap on another coat? Is that okay to do? Ive never really painted like this. I got the boxes in the laundry room in my apartment complex (my apartment connects to it), I'd like to knock them out as fast as i can and get em out of other's way. I already stood gaurd and literally watched paint dry for about 30 minutes because some kid felt the need to practice juggling a soccer ball right next to my wet speaker boxes that are balanced on just a couple of tiny weights mad.gifeek.gif <-- how i felt on the inside.. cool.gif <--how i appeared on the surface. lol. anyhow, almost there.. Can't wait
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post #30 of 50 Old 04-23-2013, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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two pics of the first coat..
2935162189

And the second one.. Note: this Duratex made painting for the first time feel pretty easy. i felt like a pro making it all textured and whatnot smile.gif .. I really like the textured look, moreso than even in other people's pics.. which is the basic consensus Ive also heard from others.
2935162189
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