Stereo Integrity 24" subwoofer - not kidding! - Page 24 - AVS Forum
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post #691 of 870 Old 07-10-2014, 10:11 AM
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The LMS-5400s are already in place and paid for so it isn't like this is an option. It is further not an option due to space.


Here are the more applicable calculations for my situation.


3 x 4 (or 5) cu.ft. = 12 cu.ft. total
1 x 16 cu.ft. = I CAN ONLY FIT 1 IN THE WALL
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post #692 of 870 Old 07-10-2014, 10:15 AM
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Its also a matter of how much space someone has. The wood it costs to build the enclosures and whatnot. Lets just stick with the 1600 price tag and say you can get roughly a pair of 24's for the price of 3 Ultras. I am not going to be able to buy them when they are on sale. And for me the price is about 2200aud including shipping for just one.

While some have room for 24's others only have room for 15's.

^^^^^^^^

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post #693 of 870 Old 07-10-2014, 10:46 AM
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Its also a matter of how much space someone has. The wood it costs to build the enclosures and whatnot. Lets just stick with the 1600 price tag and say you can get roughly a pair of 24's for the price of 3 Ultras. I am not going to be able to buy them when they are on sale. And for me the price is about 2200aud including shipping for just one.

While some have room for 24's others only have room for 15's.
We talk as if a 15 is tiny....HA Best buy has never even heard of a 15" subwoofer.

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post #694 of 870 Old 07-10-2014, 01:59 PM
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We talk as if a 15 is tiny....HA Best buy has never even heard of a 15" subwoofer.
So true...

18" subs in the normal would are considered crazy, but around here it's normal. Anything under 18" is small.

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post #695 of 870 Old 07-10-2014, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Not quite, more like


LMS-U $925.87ea X3 = $2777.61 free shipping


SI 24 $999ea X3 = $2997.00 plus shipping, and its probably $100 per driver to ship.


shipping for my 24 was 5$
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post #696 of 870 Old 07-10-2014, 04:28 PM
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Plus I am pretty sure 3 of the 24" SI will beat the snot out of 3 LMS and take it's lunch money, bang it's girl, it's mom, perhaps even bang the LMS and make it ride it's bike home after without a seat.

If I had a choice I'd choose the 24" over the LMS for the same cost. I am surprised these drivers are not more popular. Just being 24" make it freakin' way cool IMO. Plus it can obviously lay the bass down with the best of them. Boggles my mind why so much hate towards these.
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post #697 of 870 Old 07-10-2014, 04:40 PM
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I'm pretty certain that the consensus of the SI24 is that it is a bad ass m-f'er of a driver.

Where is all this "hate" that consumes your attention?

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post #698 of 870 Old 07-10-2014, 05:24 PM
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Well for me, cost is secondary to space concerns since my theater room is also the living room. I'm not necessarily limiting myself due to the living room but do have design challenges. Space is a big one for me, which is why i went with the LMS5400s vs the SI18s since it takes 2 of the SI18s to equal the output of a LMS5400. Now if the UXL18 had been more available when I bought mine, I might have gone with it. Same for the HS24 except I'd still be space limited but I would have gone with a HS24 in place of one of the LMS5400s.


Regarding the "hate" for the HS24, it is primarily due to the several cost increases. The initial $699 was a group buy special for "beta" testers buying a brand new, unreviewed. unproven subwoofer. It was never the introductory price of the HS24 yet people keep using that as the starting price. So the starting price was really $999 and Nick got smart and realized that was too low as the sub might have even exceeded his expectations. Why would he price a 24" sub at the same price as an LMS5400 when the HS24 seriously beat TWO LMS5400s head to head? Answer he wouldn't so that is why the quick bump to $1299. Now another reason you raise prices is because they're TOO popular and you can't keep up with demand, which is likely why he raised to $1599. Since managing supply and demand is ALWAYS difficult and a moving target, he had probably caught back up or purchased enough raw materials that he can now handle more demand...maybe why the sale for $999 again.


Hearing a single HS24 beat my pair of LMS5400s makes me realize the value of the HS24 whether that be at $999 or even up to $1599.
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post #699 of 870 Old 07-10-2014, 08:36 PM
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Scott when can we get a picture of your subs and mains again?

And did Nick ever do anymore with the clamping method of attaching the woofer? Or whatever someone else did under the baffle lip?

I know he had talked about it but never heard anymore info. And can someone tell me about the packing container the 24's are in?

I have been hearing some horror stories about some other drivers being damaged on expensive speakers in containers not packed very well. This is not about Nick just another company.
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post #700 of 870 Old 07-10-2014, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
Scott when can we get a picture of your subs and mains again?

And did Nick ever do anymore with the clamping method of attaching the woofer? Or whatever someone else did under the baffle lip?

I know he had talked about it but never heard anymore info. And can someone tell me about the packing container the 24's are in?

I have been hearing some horror stories about some other drivers being damaged on expensive speakers in containers not packed very well. This is not about Nick just another company.
The boxes that Nick provides with the 24's is STOUT!

It's made of 2 x 4's and (I believe 1/2" OSB. Imagine a sub box with a front baffle and no side or back walls.
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post #701 of 870 Old 07-10-2014, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
We talk as if a 15 is tiny....HA Best buy has never even heard of a 15" subwoofer.

Not true! They sold me one in 1998.

I bought a Cerwin Vega from them with a 15" driver to go with my 2 Cerwin Vega mains that had 15" drivers that I bought a couple years earlier (CV center channel and jbl rears to go with it). Myself and my roommates thought we were in heaven. One of the first things we did was buy the Cunning Stunts DVD by Metallica and rocked that thing on a 27" tube tv. Greatest thing I had ever seen in my life in a home setting. I wore that disk out. Still pisses me off they only played half of Puppets.... they used to do that in concert back then. Blasphemy.
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post #702 of 870 Old 07-10-2014, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
Scott when can we get a picture of your subs and mains again?

And did Nick ever do anymore with the clamping method of attaching the woofer? Or whatever someone else did under the baffle lip?

I know he had talked about it but never heard anymore info. And can someone tell me about the packing container the 24's are in?

I have been hearing some horror stories about some other drivers being damaged on expensive speakers in containers not packed very well. This is not about Nick just another company.
A packing (1st batch) that solid enough to ensure the woofers safely air freight all the way from US to my address in South East Asia without a scratch on woofer, I heard the packing has been improved further now
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post #703 of 870 Old 07-11-2014, 12:55 AM
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A packing (1st batch) that solid enough to ensure the woofers safely air freight all the way from US to my address in South East Asia without a scratch on woofer, I heard the packing has been improved further now
Thats reassuring to hear then. I am in no way able to buy a pair but was curious. Still looking at puny 15's for now. BUT someday I hope to have a pair of 24's.
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post #704 of 870 Old 07-14-2014, 09:06 PM
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A packing (1st batch) that solid enough to ensure the woofers safely air freight all the way from US to my address in South East Asia without a scratch on woofer, I heard the packing has been improved further now
The packing for WereWolf84's 24's did not have crates - it utilized the first iteration of packing we had for the 24's which involved foam, wood supports, expanding foam, paper, more expanding foam, etc. However, since delivering his woofer and many others afterwards the packing has changed to crates inside of a tightly wrapped double-walled cardboard box.
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post #705 of 870 Old 07-14-2014, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Not quite, more like


LMS-U $925.87ea X4 = $3,703.48 free shipping


SI 24 $1,004 shipped
inside the continental USA.


If we are talking about equal SPL performance I have edited the numbers in your post to reflect it. The price we are extending to AVS members through the end of this month includes shipping inside the continental USA.
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post #706 of 870 Old 07-14-2014, 09:46 PM
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There's a difference between raising the price because something was underpriced and he's trying to do a market correction and just flat out price gouging because you can. And at $1599 plus shipping I get the feeling sales were very slooooooooow and that's why they are back down to $999 plus shipping.
Browsing through this thread your post is what needs correcting. There is LOT of OEM attention on this driver. So much so that the price will go up to at least $1599 from now on. Period. The drivers are moving very well. But this forum is where we announced the woofer initially and we thought it only fitting to give back to this forum before the price was fixed. Not only the latter but the driver is worth the $1,599 price if not more. Selling a woofer for 20% markup is fun for those that wish to make a few customers happy and then be out of business within six months. No other single driver out there comes even close to reaching the levels that the HS 24 is capable of. Cost-to-performance ratio it takes substantially more cost to out-perform one HS 24.
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post #707 of 870 Old 07-14-2014, 10:02 PM
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Browsing through this thread your post is what needs correcting. There is LOT of OEM attention on this driver. So much so that the price will go up to at least $1599 from now on. Period. The drivers are moving very well. But this forum is where we announced the woofer initially and we thought it only fitting to give back to this forum before the price was fixed. Not only the latter but the driver is worth the $1,599 price if not more. Selling a woofer for 20% markup is fun for those that wish to make a few customers happy and then be out of business within six months. No other single driver out there comes even close to reaching the levels that the HS 24 is capable of. Cost-to-performance ratio it takes substantially more cost to out-perform one HS 24.
Fair enough Nick and good to hear.
I can't help but notice but it seems like some of my posts have rubber you the wrong way? You only seem to be quoting my posts from last week and no one else that was making some of the same points that I was.

Sorry but are you saying that you are only making 20% profit at the $999 price or the $1599 price? Or the $699 price? I'm going to assume that was at the $699 price because I couldn't imagine you selling below cost at the $699 price and losing money. Anyways good to hear, my only regret was not having a theater room large enough to be able to accommodate two massive cabinets that I would of needed for a ported design.

Last edited by jbrown15; 07-14-2014 at 10:20 PM.
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post #708 of 870 Old 07-14-2014, 10:26 PM
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20% at $999? Cough... BullS$%... Cough lol

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post #709 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 07:37 AM
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20% at $999? Cough... BullS$%... Cough lol
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post #710 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 08:13 AM
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Does it matter what his margin is? I don't really care if it's 200% as long as for the cost I pay it's a good value.

If this thing can stomp $2000 worth of drivers from other mfg then it's a good deal even at $1599; I don't really care if it only cost .02$ cents to make and they profit $1598.98 each time they sell one.

This is the only thread, and SI is the only company that routinely gets scrutinized over these irrelevant areas that have no impact on bass performance. What's the margin on a LMS? I bet it's more....
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post #711 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 08:16 AM
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What's with the SI hard-on? You honestly have never seen any other mfg be scrutinized or have their prices questioned? Come on.
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post #712 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 08:18 AM
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Nick have you ever had a chance to use the SP12000 and a pair of 24s?

Interested in hearing more about what has been done with these woofers. Price is price and nothing I can do about that but other setups or maximum power would be nice to hear about.
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post #713 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 08:23 AM
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What's with the SI hard-on? You honestly have never seen any other mfg be scrutinized or have their prices questioned? Come on.
That's one thing I noticed in the DIY world. Hard on fans are a plenty.
Whether it's for subs or amps...you spot them quickly and they are relentless!

I just take what they write with a grain of salt.

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post #714 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 08:27 AM
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What's with the SI hard-on? You honestly have never seen any other mfg be scrutinized or have their prices questioned? Come on.
No actually. The answer is no. I don't see other mfg scrutinized about the same things as here. I can't recall a couple pages wasted talking about mfg margin on a driver instead of talking about driver performance and set up or how well it lays the bass down. Was there a non SI thread that did that ?

People come here to talk about bass performance. Nothing wrong with price talk but sometimes it's taken too far. It's both boring and irrelevant. I'd rather see someone port these muther truckers at 10hz and post up some pics and measurements. Every time I visit this thread I'm disappointed with the same old same ol' pile of doo doo. We need to get back on track ....

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post #715 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 08:35 AM
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20% at $999? Cough... BullS$%... Cough lol
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No actually. The answer is no. I don't see other mfg scrutinized about the same things as here. I can't recall a couple pages wasted talking about mfg margin on a driver instead of talking about driver performance and set up or how well it lays the bass down. Was there a non SI thread that did that ?

People come here to talk about bass performance. Nothing wrong with price talk but sometimes it's taken too far. It's both boring and irrelevant. I'd rather see someone port these muther truckers at 10hz and post up some pics and measurements. Every time I visit this thread I'm disappointed with the same old same ol' pile of doo doo. We need to get back on track ....
You clearly have not paid enough attention, then. You may find talk of price/margin/whatever boring or OT, but in the DIY area, where one of the main motivations is price and performance vs commercially available products, it's a big factor. So the fact that people are commenting on it should be an indication of its relevance. So "taken too far" is in the eye of the beholder.

And the reason that I personally take issue with some of the claims is that they go against common sense in a number of ways. I say again, they can charge a billion dollars or fifty--that's their prerogative. But that doesn't mean that I, and others can't call BS when we smell it. Sorry if you don't like it, but that's what makes this country great.
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post #716 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 08:42 AM
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I guess you just didn't read it with the same comprehension I did because I read his statement as if : mfg that only want to operate on 20% margin would likely go out of business in 6 months.

That to me didn't suggest they were making 20% rather explaining in a real world way why that doesn't work. I'm not sure we needed another 5 posts calling BS because posters can't read and comprehend what he said properly. That's the BS in this thread.

I do agree with you about peoples right to differencing opinions, and I don't own or have a hard on for SI more than anyone else. I think I'm just interested in a big ass bad ass 24" subwoofer because it's existence seems inherently cool to me.

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post #717 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 08:48 AM
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I guess you just didn't read it with the same comprehension I did because I read his statement as if : mfg that only want to operate on 20% margin would likely go out of business in 6 months.

That to me didn't suggest they were making 20% rather explaining in a real world way why that doesn't work. I'm not sure we needed another 5 posts calling BS because posters can't read and comprehend what he said properly. That's the BS in this thread.

I do agree with you about peoples right to differencing opinions, and I don't own or have a hard on for SI more than anyone else. I think I'm just interested in a big ass bad ass 24" subwoofer because it's existence seems inherently cool to me.
I comprehended just fine, thanks. I suspect others who voiced their opinions did, as well. This reminds me of your "you guys just don't understand basic business" comment earlier.
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post #718 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 09:19 AM
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All of this is friggin terrible. The price jump upset people that might have thought initially that they could build out with the driver, but the jump took them out of the running and some here are bitter. others it seems are simply here just to BS about work ethics. Bottom line is Nick was nice enough for us to be the "beta" testers and it has unfortunately come back to bite him in tush. He most certainly doesn't deserve this stupid banter, and his 24" absolutely doesn't require it, much less any more "Vetting."

If you are not planning on building out with SI, or are not genuinely curious with the driver's performance/designs, then please move on. This is absolute pointless garble. SI will do what they do, and for me and my experience, it has been excellent service with MORE than excellent QC and driver performance. Some may have not found the same, but anyone who questions the quality of the 24 is a flat out liar. It deserves every bit of the pricetag it is listed at now, and that is the bottom line.
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post #719 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 09:41 AM
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Nick have you ever had a chance to use the SP12000 and a pair of 24s?
I'm not Nick but we've put more power into a single HS24 than a SP2-12000 can put into a pair of HS24s. The HS24 puts out 6000w per channel and the SP2-8000 puts out 8000w total. At Beasts GTG we ran most of the day around 2000w using a single channel of his IPR-7500 (impressive display on only 2000w). Later in the evening, we took the 4 ohm load and separated into a pair of 2 ohm loads. We had the IPR-7500 running each channel with around 3500-3750 per channel but the IPR-7500 ran out of juice pretty quick when "Bass I Love You" was played with 7 Hz content. So then we shut down, measured the coils and realized they were closer to 1.6 ohm instead of 2 ohms. So then we hooked up each channel to my SP2-8000, which put out 4000w per channel. The SpeakerPower amp fared better and worked for about 15 min before the volume went towards reference and the SpeakerPower went into some sort of protection mode.

Now with that said, Nick's official position is that the HS24 is rated for 1500w nominal power. So if you burn up your subwoofer running 10 Hz sine waves with 6000w for a few minutes...don't expect a warranty replacement.
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post #720 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
All of this is friggin terrible. The price jump upset people that might have thought initially that they could build out with the driver, but the jump took them out of the running and some here are bitter. others it seems are simply here just to BS about work ethics. Bottom line is Nick was nice enough for us to be the "beta" testers and it has unfortunately come back to bite him in tush. He most certainly doesn't deserve this stupid banter, and his 24" absolutely doesn't require it, much less any more "Vetting."

If you are not planning on building out with SI, or are not genuinely curious with the driver's performance/designs, then please move on. This is absolute pointless garble. SI will do what they do, and for me and my experience, it has been excellent service with MORE than excellent QC and driver performance. Some may have not found the same, but anyone who questions the quality of the 24 is a flat out liar. It deserves every bit of the pricetag it is listed at now, and that is the bottom line.
I don't know which parts of that are directed at me, but I can assure you that I'm not bitter in the least. If at the time I'm ready to upgrade I want to spend the money on those, I will. If I don't, I won't. And also made no mention of work ethic, so.... I also don't get this "don't deserve" thing. They're a business and I assume they put on their big boy pants every day. I'm sure they're not having fainting spells in their office. But the real bottom line for some of us are the reasons that don't make sense. No one has questioned the QC or performance of this or any of their other drivers that I've seen. At least not in this thread.

Just don't drop BS on us and expect us to report that it smells like roses. There are a few points that don't make sense to me, honestly. But I'll leave it alone. I get wanting to stick up for a product/mfg/person who you've had a good experience with. But as with any business, ALL aspects of it are open to questioning, not just the performance. It's nothing new on this forum or any other. The other side of the coin is often (so what if the performance isn't exactly what they state, look at the price you're getting it for!" One argument is no less valid than the next.

But as you were....
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