Stereo Integrity 24" subwoofer - not kidding! - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 11:58 AM
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It's all good, I think everyone agrees that price increases suck and perhaps it could have been done in better way. I just wanted to get back to talking about this monster sub and avoid additional talk about the nonsense of margins, or how much they make. That's irrelevant. Only the price you can buy it for matters. Right now that appears to be $999. It seems to be increasing to $1599. It is what it is.

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post #722 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 12:44 PM
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So, how much are these things anyway, $999? I might just buy a pair and use them for my Baffle wall in the back of the room. I can get 4 IB3-18's for the same price which have awesome low end.
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post #723 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I'm not Nick but we've put more power into a single HS24 than a SP2-12000 can put into a pair of HS24s. The HS24 puts out 6000w per channel and the SP2-8000 puts out 8000w total. At Beasts GTG we ran most of the day around 2000w using a single channel of his IPR-7500 (impressive display on only 2000w). Later in the evening, we took the 4 ohm load and separated into a pair of 2 ohm loads. We had the IPR-7500 running each channel with around 3500-3750 per channel but the IPR-7500 ran out of juice pretty quick when "Bass I Love You" was played with 7 Hz content. So then we shut down, measured the coils and realized they were closer to 1.6 ohm instead of 2 ohms. So then we hooked up each channel to my SP2-8000, which put out 4000w per channel. The SpeakerPower amp fared better and worked for about 15 min before the volume went towards reference and the SpeakerPower went into some sort of protection mode.

Now with that said, Nick's official position is that the HS24 is rated for 1500w nominal power. So if you burn up your subwoofer running 10 Hz sine waves with 6000w for a few minutes...don't expect a warranty replacement.
Is 1500W an "AES" procedure rating? I'd like to know what the rating is based on. It should be fairly obvious that one should not abuse the driver with 8000W but a little more information on the power rating would be interesting. Perhaps Nick will chime in.
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post #724 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 01:33 PM
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So, how much are these things anyway, $999? I might just buy a pair and use them for my Baffle wall in the back of the room. I can get 4 IB3-18's for the same price which have awesome low end.
My understanding is they are $1599 but for a short limited time right now AVS members can purchase them for $999. The new price is $1599 though. If you want it, act fast!

This is a good option for you btw! Better than the XXX I think.

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post #725 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 01:42 PM
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I was thinking dual IB3's in each back corner which comes out to be the same price as one 24. The IB3 was the driver I went with rather than the 24 before anyone tested them. I could not wait that long.
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post #726 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 01:44 PM
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Is 1500W an "AES" procedure rating? I'd like to know what the rating is based on. It should be fairly obvious that one should not abuse the driver with 8000W but a little more information on the power rating would be interesting. Perhaps Nick will chime in.
Nick will say 1,500 watts repeatedly, and nothing more, as he doesn't want to state anything else for fear of people running rampant hooking their 24's directly up to the nearest sub-station around their home. 8000 watts was a bit confident but the 24 took it in stride. 4000 watts if you run sealed is a great starting point IMO, but you go big with the box, like 30cuft big, I wouldn't go more than 1,500-2,000

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post #727 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 01:51 PM
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Nick will say 1,500 watts repeatedly, and nothing more, as he doesn't want to state anything else for fear of people running rampant hooking their 24's directly up to the nearest sub-station around their home. 8000 watts was a bit confident but the 24 took it in stride. 4000 watts if you run sealed is a great starting point IMO, but you go big with the box, like 30cuft big, I wouldn't go more than 1,500-2,000
Yep...you'll get one thing out of Nick...1500w.
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post #728 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 01:57 PM
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Nick will say 1,500 watts repeatedly, and nothing more, as he doesn't want to state anything else for fear of people running rampant hooking their 24's directly up to the nearest sub-station around their home. 8000 watts was a bit confident but the 24 took it in stride. 4000 watts if you run sealed is a great starting point IMO, but you go big with the box, like 30cuft big, I wouldn't go more than 1,500-2,000
I was hoping there would be more information regarding the power rating. The 8000W or 4000W figures don't hold that much value for me without a long term time period quoted and the type of signal applied. AES defines this and which is why I prefer that standard. I am sure the driver can probably stand the short 4KW bursts that come with movies but my question was more about long term thermal capacity. Fully understand how most people want to overpower the driver and a higher rating would certainly be a lot more inviting for people who are not familiar with the topic to do this, even in this thread you say that Nick says 1500W but then you are suggesting 4000W
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post #729 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 02:06 PM
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I was hoping there would be more information regarding the power rating. The 8000W or 4000W figures don't hold that much value for me without a long term time period quoted and the type of signal applied. AES defines this and which is why I prefer that standard. I am sure the driver can probably stand the short 4KW bursts that come with movies but my question was more about long term thermal capacity. Fully understand how most people want to overpower the driver and a higher rating would certainly be a lot more inviting for people who are not familiar with the topic to do this, even in this thread you say that Nick says 1500W but then you are suggesting 4000W
Now don't going putting words in my mouth. I simply stated what was done at a GTG...I don't own one...yet.

* I remember recently in the JTR thread where someone blew up an S2 because he had run low freq. sine waves through the sub for like 10 minutes...surprise...the woofer burnt up. This is exactly why Nick says 1500w is the only thing he recommends...because he doesn't know if someone will play sine waves or music, movies, etc.

* I would probably run 4,000w if I owned a HS24 but I would not run sine waves through it. I would know to be careful.

* At the GTG, we were seriously trying to blow up the HS24...at least that is what some were trying to do. So that is why we sent 8000w through it but no sine waves...although Bass I Love You had solid 7Hz content.

* If I had to guess, Jeff probably did some measurements, maybe the standard you mention and identified 1500w as the safe value, which makes since because the sub has a 3" voice coil.
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post #730 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 02:16 PM
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I guess with Nick not willing to comment further the only way to get my answer is if someone takes a bunch of these to gigs and powers each with 2-4KW for 8 hours of compressed EDM or if someone does an AES test on it.
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post #731 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 02:28 PM
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This driver is made for a huge box and in a huge box 1500 watts will be enough. The smaller enclosure used allowed for much more power. I can blow up my drivers using 500 watts or 5000 watts depending on the box. I wonder how conservative the x-max is rated if it can outclass two LMS-5400's in a tiny box(by its standards) or whether the LMS is over rated. Maybe both?
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post #732 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 02:39 PM
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I guess with Nick not willing to comment further the only way to get my answer is if someone takes a bunch of these to gigs and powers each with 2-4KW for 8 hours of compressed EDM or if someone does an AES test on it.
We gave the sub an absolute pounding with around 4,000 watts for a while and it took it in stride inside a 17 cuft sealed box. I would say even 2,000 will make someone happy in the same sized enclosure but at no point would I recommend any more than that. It is downright impressive either way for a single driver.

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post #733 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 02:45 PM
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How many ported SI18" drivers (think 24" cubes ported at 18hz) would it take to equal one 24" ?

How many sealed SI18" would it take to equal one 24" sealed?

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post #734 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 02:53 PM
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When Ricci tests it we will know. If the T/S parameters are correct then it would take 5 18's from SI to better it, not equal it.
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post #735 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 02:58 PM
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We gave the sub an absolute pounding with around 4,000 watts for a while and it took it in stride inside a 17 cuft sealed box. I would say even 2,000 will make someone happy in the same sized enclosure but at no point would I recommend any more than that. It is downright impressive either way for a single driver.
The problem with power ratings as I mentioned is the signal applied and the time period, there is a big difference between a movie's occasional peaks and continuous compressed bass heavy music. What did you play and for what duration? Were you able to monitor the applied power/voltage in real time?
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post #736 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 03:06 PM
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How many ported SI18" drivers (think 24" cubes ported at 18hz) would it take to equal one 24" ?

How many sealed SI18" would it take to equal one 24" sealed?
Three.
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post #737 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 03:11 PM
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Three.
No way. A pair of SI18s is about equivalent to an LMS 5400 and it takes more than 2 LMS 5400s to equal an HS24...so I'd say over 4 SI18s are required to equal a HS24 in the real world...not simulated.
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post #738 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 03:13 PM
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No way. A pair of SI18s is about equivalent to an LMS 5400 and it takes more than 2 LMS 5400s to equal an HS24...so I'd say over 4 SI18s are required to equal a HS24 in the real world...not simulated.
This is kind of what I was thinking...

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post #739 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 03:15 PM
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Okay then...four.

Now what?


Btw, I got the three driver figure from some post by Electrodynamic some time back. Don't remember where the post was.

Last edited by Scott Simonian; 07-15-2014 at 03:22 PM.
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post #740 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 03:17 PM
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lol @ "bass enabler" in your title. Just saw that.

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post #741 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 03:29 PM
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Okay then...four.

Now what?


Btw, I got the three driver figure from some post by Electrodynamic some time back. Don't remember where the post was.
Yeah...I remember Electrodynamic posting that number...like I said, I think the HS24 is a more successful subwoofer than even he expected. The HS24 models well but performs even better in the real world.

So just grab a pair of HS24s and call it a day.
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post #742 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 03:30 PM
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The problem with power ratings as I mentioned is the signal applied and the time period, there is a big difference between a movie's occasional peaks and continuous compressed bass heavy music. What did you play and for what duration? Were you able to monitor the applied power/voltage in real time?
We did the heavy hitter bass scenes, some serious dubstep with some uber low stuff from our good friend here Dubking (Mark), as well as other artists with some more intense droning basically sine sweeps in their music. Did some sines as well for several periods of time. I mean, we gave it all we could. at reference. with about a +10 to +15dB bass boost. It was epic. Nary a bad sound coming from the driver. after 8,000 watts the box got a little smelly, but the driver wasn't phased at all really.

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Three.
I would say confidently 4-5 in my space to equal, maybe 5 would have the edge by a small margin.

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post #743 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 04:18 PM
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Taking the numbers from the SI website the Vd are as follows

SI 18 : 2.651 liters
SI 24 : 7.666 liters

Thus in the linear range (Xmax) three would be the number.

Going on beyond Xmax one could do the calculation based on Xmech (never mind distortion).

SI 18 : 5.067 liters
SI 24 : 13.841 liters

There is gain with many boxes which AES has a number of articles on versus one.

Three still seems to be the number.......maybe the physics is different however the design limits (Xmech) truly decide the maximum displacement at low frequencies below the Fs value of the driver.

However if someone else wants to jump in please do so.

I also noted the SI 18 are on sale at $162 not counting shipping.
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post #744 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 05:40 PM
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I've modeled them and so I know what the models say.

In the real world I've heard 4 SI18s powered by my SpeakerPower SP2-8000 amp and my pair of LMS-5400s powered by the same amp and they were equivalent. Actually, the person with the 4SI18s had them powered by a pair of EP4000s and I was underwhelmed after hearing my LMS-5400s the night before. That is when we hooked up my amp and heard what I expected, which is 2 SI18s is about equivalent to a single LMS-5400.

Then at Beasts GTG we put the LMS-5400s against the HS24 and the HS24 dug deeper and played louder. Sound quality was about the same but output definitely favored the HS24.

The best "system" I've heard was Beasts system with Danley SH50s and his 8 SI18s in DO cabinets. Phenomenal. So the SI18s are a tremendous value if you can fit quite a few but the HS24 is at an entirely different level. Since I would never recommend a single sub, I'd recommend multiples, I'd recommend a pair of HS24 as being plenty for most rooms and people. If you can't do a pair of them then do a pair or more of another sub like the UXL-18 or quite a few SI18s. Then focus on speakers, projector, screen, treatments, etc. as your bass would be handled.
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post #745 of 870 Old 07-15-2014, 06:22 PM
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If anyone was going to buy the 24" they should have read through Beasts GTG. That should be a definite link for everyone first. Simulations are one thing and real world is another. Four 18's seems like the equivalent here. Although are we comparing similar cabinet sizes or just impressions? Is that one 24" sealed 17cuft to four 18's in 16-18cuft?

Doesnt matter just curious. I never care much for the power rating numbers. AES is good but I have always put 5x's more than I need to my line arrays. They are just fine after 5 years.

Dgage thanks for the response. I have read the GTG and know everything that had happened there. BUT thanks again for reposting that.(sincerely)

I know Chop is getting the SP212000's for his 24's so I will have to wait. While the price has pushed me out of the 24 possibility so has a new 6.7l cummins for my truck project. Dont really care about the price, it is what it is.

The day that I finally have a dedicated room I will jump on a pair of 24's.


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post #746 of 870 Old 07-16-2014, 12:25 AM
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We did the heavy hitter bass scenes, some serious dubstep with some uber low stuff from our good friend here Dubking (Mark), as well as other artists with some more intense droning basically sine sweeps in their music. Did some sines as well for several periods of time. I mean, we gave it all we could. at reference. with about a +10 to +15dB bass boost. It was epic. Nary a bad sound coming from the driver. after 8,000 watts the box got a little smelly, but the driver wasn't phased at all really.
A more specific time period and the exact files played would be great if you happen to remember. Without details it isn't really giving me the information I am looking for. All it is telling me is it can take short term burst power but I already knew that as most drivers can take burst power a lot higher than what they can withstand on a long term basis.

I'm sure its a nice driver but I want to know what power the driver can handle with compressed EDM for at least 4 hours continuous.
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post #747 of 870 Old 07-16-2014, 03:42 AM
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A more specific time period and the exact files played would be great if you happen to remember. Without details it isn't really giving me the information I am looking for. All it is telling me is it can take short term burst power but I already knew that as most drivers can take burst power a lot higher than what they can withstand on a long term basis.

I'm sure its a nice driver but I want to know what power the driver can handle with compressed EDM for at least 4 hours continuous.
1500 watts
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post #748 of 870 Old 07-16-2014, 03:52 AM
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1500 watts
Thanks.
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post #749 of 870 Old 07-16-2014, 06:19 AM
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DS, I have the playlist we ran through for a demo, but it was only about 30 minutes long and had all sorts of types of music so I don't know how that will really benefit you so much. we then played randomly through my 4,000 track library as well as Austin's arsenal.

The g2g was unfortunately NOT a rave...
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post #750 of 870 Old 07-16-2014, 07:55 AM
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How was max SPL measured to compare the two? They were no in the same location and not EQ'd? I always get yelled at if I don't do that as a starting point.
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