4 Pi vs DIY Sound Group's Fusion Sentinel 15" - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:06 AM
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In light of a few of the things discussed in this thread, perhaps a better comparison would be a speaker using the SEOS 15. wink.gif
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:16 AM
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My guess is that both the 4 Pi and the various SEOS designs will be very similar in SQ. All represent a great value to the customer, to bad JBL went nuts on the cost of the 2226's.

Current Gear: PJ – BenQ PE7700; Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR805; Blu Ray - OppoBDP 103; Turntable - Dual CS-515 w/ Ortofon Super OM10; Amplifiers - OdysseyKhartago, Adcom GFA555, QSC RMX 1850HD; PEQ - Behringer FBD2496 [Near FieldSub], miniDSP 2×4 [Flanking Subs], REW; Speakers - 4 Pi (w/B&C DE250/JBL2226H) × 3 [LCR], Yamaha Crap × 2 [surrounds], Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X18" sealed sub [near field sub], LAB-12 based ported sub tuned to 22 Hz x2 [flanking subs, XO set at 40 Hz]
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:16 AM
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Double Post

Current Gear: PJ – BenQ PE7700; Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR805; Blu Ray - OppoBDP 103; Turntable - Dual CS-515 w/ Ortofon Super OM10; Amplifiers - OdysseyKhartago, Adcom GFA555, QSC RMX 1850HD; PEQ - Behringer FBD2496 [Near FieldSub], miniDSP 2×4 [Flanking Subs], REW; Speakers - 4 Pi (w/B&C DE250/JBL2226H) × 3 [LCR], Yamaha Crap × 2 [surrounds], Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X18" sealed sub [near field sub], LAB-12 based ported sub tuned to 22 Hz x2 [flanking subs, XO set at 40 Hz]
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Old 05-06-2013, 09:42 AM
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"to bad JBL went nuts on the cost of the 2226's"

yeah...but the 2226 isn't the only good 15" on the market.

there are drivers from other companies that offer similarly good or even better performance.

the replacement for the ps76 from b&c that includes distortion reducing shorting rings should be a good one and the td15m should also make a nice 15" based premium model.

there are also some offerings from 18sounds that could work. one that might be interesting is the 15nd930. that is the woofer used in the yorkville u215 that some folks got to hear at the recent gtg. and there is the 15nmb420 which has the best frequency response that i've seen in a 15".

Listen. It's All Good.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:32 PM
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I know there are many good 15" drivers available, but unless there is a crossover design available for the specific CD/waveguide and driver it does little good to the average DIY enthusiast. I believe the JBL is at least a 15 yr old design so it should not be the top performer available.

Now if I had the ability, or the time to master the art of crossover design, there would be endless possibilities.

Current Gear: PJ – BenQ PE7700; Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR805; Blu Ray - OppoBDP 103; Turntable - Dual CS-515 w/ Ortofon Super OM10; Amplifiers - OdysseyKhartago, Adcom GFA555, QSC RMX 1850HD; PEQ - Behringer FBD2496 [Near FieldSub], miniDSP 2×4 [Flanking Subs], REW; Speakers - 4 Pi (w/B&C DE250/JBL2226H) × 3 [LCR], Yamaha Crap × 2 [surrounds], Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X18" sealed sub [near field sub], LAB-12 based ported sub tuned to 22 Hz x2 [flanking subs, XO set at 40 Hz]
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post

I know there are many good 15" drivers available, but unless there is a crossover design available for the specific CD/waveguide and driver it does little good to the average DIY enthusiast. I believe the JBL is at least a 15 yr old design so it should not be the top performer available.

Now if I had the ability, or the time to master the art of crossover design, there would be endless possibilities.

This is true, but there are plenty of good designs around 15's already.
You'd be surprised what you can find a 2226 for on ebay. I got 3, and payed less then 200 for each of them, all original cones.
If you can find them around there, it's a pretty clear winner for the budget.
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Old 05-07-2013, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post

I know there are many good 15" drivers available, but unless there is a crossover design available for the specific CD/waveguide and driver it does little good to the average DIY enthusiast. I believe the JBL is at least a 15 yr old design so it should not be the top performer available.

Now if I had the ability, or the time to master the art of crossover design, there would be endless possibilities.

Ok, so what are some similar performing woofers to the JBL-2226 that can match the output and sound quality, and cost under $175 each?
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Old 05-07-2013, 07:07 AM
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Ok, so what are some similar performing woofers to the JBL-2226 that can match the output and sound quality, and cost under $175 each?
There aren't any. To get 2226 performance requires tight manufacturing tolerances, and you don't get that level of quality for $175. You do for $300-$400, and there are a number of drivers in that price range that match the 2226, mostly from European manufacturers like Beyma, B&C, Faital Pro and 18Sound.

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Old 05-07-2013, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

There aren't any. To get 2226 performance requires tight manufacturing tolerances, and you don't get that level of quality for $175. You do for $300-$400, and there are a number of drivers in that price range that match the 2226, mostly from European manufacturers like Beyma, B&C, Faital Pro and 18Sound.


That is what I thought. How does the JBL-2225 compare to the JBL-2226? Is the 2225 comparable in terms of overall performance?
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Old 05-07-2013, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

There aren't any. To get 2226 performance requires tight manufacturing tolerances, and you don't get that level of quality for $175. You do for $300-$400, and there are a number of drivers in that price range that match the 2226, mostly from European manufacturers like Beyma, B&C, Faital Pro and 18Sound.


That is what I thought. How does the JBL-2225 compare to the JBL-2226? Is the 2225 comparable in terms of overall performance?

Slightly less power handling but model virtually identical. I have 4 of em sitting in the storage room, but when I had them in they friggin rocked.... I was running them off an ep4000 and they loved it.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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Old 05-07-2013, 08:29 AM
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I love my 2226H's, and am never getting rid of them. Once I listened to Black Sabbath's debut album at full reference volume I was hooked. Some of Toni Iommi's guitar work was incredible. Even af reference volume the midrange and bass were totally clear with no detectable distortion. No, I do not listen at reference volume often - less than once every few months and then only for one album.

As an aside, cannot wait for Black Sabbath 13 to be released in June. Been a long damn time since Sabotage (the last good album Black Sabbath did with Ozzy).

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Old 05-08-2013, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

There aren't any. To get 2226 performance requires tight manufacturing tolerances, and you don't get that level of quality for $175. You do for $300-$400, and there are a number of drivers in that price range that match the 2226, mostly from European manufacturers like Beyma, B&C, Faital Pro and 18Sound.

For $175, no.
But what about this driver? A little more than 1/2 the price of the JBL, which are selling for $503 / each now.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=294-670

ETA:
Decent Xmax, sensitivity close to JBL but slightly lower, well vented and well built, etc...
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by djkest View Post

For $175, no.
But what about this driver? A little more than 1/2 the price of the JBL, which are selling for $503 / each now.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=294-670

Sealed Volume 0.44 ft.³

That is a tiny enclosure too. I would like to know if this is a contender as well. I am already over my head in my own projects, but this type of information is always good to have.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:02 PM
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They show a 114L 35hz tuned enclosure on the pdf file. It certainly looks like a good performer assuming that 1.7khz peak is as minor as showb
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djkest View Post

For $175, no.
But what about this driver? A little more than 1/2 the price of the JBL, which are selling for $503 / each now.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=294-670
Loaded in 50L tuned to 45Hz it gives a very respectable result.

Quote:
Sealed Volume 0.44 ft.³
Why sealed? If you only want a 120Hz f3 there's no reason to use a fifteen.

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Old 05-08-2013, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Loaded in 50L tuned to 45Hz it gives a very respectable result.
Why sealed? If you only want a 120Hz f3 there's no reason to use a fifteen.

Good point. The spec just stood out for me. I know you and I have exchanged emails previously about a suitable replacement for the 2226. To see you say it gives respectable results is intriguing though.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:45 PM
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I'll throw it out for anyone reading or considering/looking for the 2226's, the used market is great to find good deals on them and the 2225's to boot. I know I already said it once, but I have 4, that won't be used in my theater anymore, so if someone wants to build around them, let me know.

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Old 05-08-2013, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Loaded in 50L tuned to 45Hz it gives a very respectable result.
Why sealed? If you only want a 120Hz f3 there's no reason to use a fifteen.

Indeed, around 120 dB down to 50 Hz, wouldn't need a HPF until around 40 Hz.

Wonder how it sounds in the lower midrange though, that would be a big factor.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:56 PM
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Indeed, around 120 dB down to 50 Hz, wouldn't need a HPF until around 40 Hz.

Wonder how it sounds in the lower midrange though, that would be a big factor.
It's flat all the way to 1kHz, nothing to complain about there. As for the HPF, assuming you run it with a sub the crossover would handle that chore. If you don't use a sub go 80L 40Hz.

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Old 05-08-2013, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
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It's flat all the way to 1kHz, nothing to complain about there. As for the HPF, assuming you run it with a sub the crossover would handle that chore. If you don't use a sub go 80L 40Hz.

Very cool! Thanks for the modeling Bill!
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djkest View Post

For $175, no.
But what about this driver? A little more than 1/2 the price of the JBL, which are selling for $503 / each now.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=294-670

ETA:
Decent Xmax, sensitivity close to JBL but slightly lower, well vented and well built, etc...

Isn't that what Geddes used in the Summa?
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:32 PM
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Isn't that what Geddes used in the Summa?

Yup, and it's a very good sounding driver. I've used a few in my projects but I still think I prefer the good'ol JBL 2226h. There is something special about the JBL.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:00 PM
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Used prices are very good on the 2226's, I have also seen new ones on the internet in the $300's (not Parts Express which is typically full MSRP).

Current Gear: PJ – BenQ PE7700; Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR805; Blu Ray - OppoBDP 103; Turntable - Dual CS-515 w/ Ortofon Super OM10; Amplifiers - OdysseyKhartago, Adcom GFA555, QSC RMX 1850HD; PEQ - Behringer FBD2496 [Near FieldSub], miniDSP 2×4 [Flanking Subs], REW; Speakers - 4 Pi (w/B&C DE250/JBL2226H) × 3 [LCR], Yamaha Crap × 2 [surrounds], Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X18" sealed sub [near field sub], LAB-12 based ported sub tuned to 22 Hz x2 [flanking subs, XO set at 40 Hz]
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:39 PM
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There seems to me an abundance of 16 ohm ones on eBay but 8 ohm drivers are fewer and more expensive

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Old 05-09-2013, 06:08 AM
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There seems to me an abundance of 16 ohm ones on eBay but 8 ohm drivers are fewer and more expensive
That's the Law of Supply and Demand in action.

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Old 03-06-2014, 03:29 PM
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Hi. Does anyone in the Dallas/Plano area have some Pi speakers in a home theater setup that I could come and audition? Please PM me. Thanks.
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Old 03-26-2014, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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To close the circle, I picked up 3 Fusion Sentinels. I should get the kits shortly! Thanks for everyone's input.
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