Dual Ported Dayton Audio RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build for HT - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 38 Old 04-23-2013, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Finally recieved dual HO 15s last friday and I spent the weekend putting the logics to reality. Build pics to follow soon....

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post #2 of 38 Old 04-24-2013, 02:46 PM
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I'm pretty happy with the way mine turned out... I still need to do the fan mod on my amp and my couches have been on order forever, but otherwise I'm very happy with the bottom end...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1436580/new-build-for-dedicated-3600-cu-ft-theater-two-rss390hfs-four-sealed-ported

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post #3 of 38 Old 04-24-2013, 10:08 PM - Thread Starter
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That's a very clean build. Can you post any pics of the finished cab? A REW response will also be of great help. Thanx

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post #4 of 38 Old 04-29-2013, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Finally built the first of dual cabs. Here are the pix;




























Listenting

I wanted to test it raw with no calibration just to check how it performs as it is. Tested the following movies;
  • WOTW (Pod emerging)
  • Knowing (Plane Crash and last scene)
  • Pearl Harbour (japs attack)
  • Master and Commander (First scene)
  • Battle LA (Last scene)

The sub just smiled at those scenes,,,,,Fantastic is the verdict. Very very strong subsonic impact. I think it is easily digging till 13-14Hz. Huge tactile response.

While it gallops over tough LFE fed movies, the short comings were exposed in music. It is not fast and catches the beat a tad late. The bass is flabby in music. I wonder if HO 15 requires breaking in period or not. And if so, how long is that?? Need help on this issue.
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post #5 of 38 Old 04-29-2013, 12:26 PM
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could use a little break in, but have you done any adjustments to phase or distance?

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post #6 of 38 Old 04-29-2013, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Phase is correct wrt mains and LP. I haven't run REW sweeps yet coz I wanted to check the raw response, which is great in movies. 50Hz and below, it is tremendous with scary and monsterous impact. That's exactly what I was shooting for wink.gif. However, I think midbass (50-80 hz) is weak. I haven't applied any filters in BFD thus far, which is in bypass mode.

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post #7 of 38 Old 04-30-2013, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Ran REW sweeps just now and here are the FRs;

NEARFIELD

The response does not include port contribution as it was taken 2" from the center of the cone;



MLP

Taken at the MLP without audyssey, all EQ off, BFD bypassed, and without speakers;



That's the response with mains engaged. Audyssey and DEQ off and BFD bypassed;




As I pointed out in the earlier post after listening raw, the sub is actually digging down to 13Hz wink.gif with monsterous impact, but midbass is weaker. Any thoughts why?? Shall I wait for the break in period and let the rubber surrounds loosen up??

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post #8 of 38 Old 04-30-2013, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
As I pointed out in the earlier post after listening raw, the sub is actually digging down to 13Hz with monsterous impact, but midbass is weaker. Any thoughts why?? Shall I wait for the break in period and let the rubber surrounds loosen up??

I doubt it but dang that looks like a stout build.. mmm

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post #9 of 38 Old 04-30-2013, 03:21 PM
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What kind of subs did you have before? Your graphs look pretty flat so maybe you don't like a flat response?

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post #10 of 38 Old 04-30-2013, 05:38 PM
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Can you measure up to 200hz with your mains active? It looks like the level is dropping in you graph to 100hz. Mid bass is actually more along the 80-150hz region then it is sub frequencies.

What are your mains?
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post #11 of 38 Old 04-30-2013, 08:41 PM
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"...midbass is weaker. Any thoughts why??"

did you change the location of the sub and/or the location of the listening position?

also, the added extension may be exciting a resonance that is smearing up the time domain if all other things were held equal.

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post #12 of 38 Old 04-30-2013, 09:55 PM
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that is a nice close mic sweep on the rss390. i don't recall seeing one before. only a couple db rolloff and no big inductance peak. looks like dayton did a pretty good job on that one too.

it looks like you have a nice big suckout at 72hz. seems to be going around lately. if there is a "fundamental" to mid-bass, that is probably about it. 72hz is 15.7 feet long in wavelength. a 1/4 wavelength reflection will create that kind of suckout. is the subwoofer located around 3.9 feet from a boundary, particularly the wall behind the subwoofer?

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post #13 of 38 Old 04-30-2013, 10:45 PM - Thread Starter
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What kind of subs did you have before?

I've used Klipsch KSW-10, SUB-12, SW-112, SW-115, Def Tech SC Reference. Still own SC Ref. Of all these subs, SC Ref has the worst price performance ratio. Um still pulling my hair as to why I wasted money on SC Ref. It gives nothing but resonance. Those two PRs coupled with the size of the box and no bracing makes the box unstable and weak.

Before taking on Dayton HO 15 for DIY, I made another ported box with Alpine SWR-1223D (In my signature)......this build proved to be fantastic. Raw listening shows it is surely going down to 15-16hz. Though I haven't calibrated and run any REW sweeps on it. This sub has depth, as well as, tremendous mid-bass. So compared with Alpine, Dayton is lacking in this area.
Quote:
Your graphs look pretty flat so maybe you don't like a flat response?

You are right. I always dial in 6-7dB house curve in the passband. But even without the HC, it is giving me tremendously strong depth.

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The best EQ is no EQ ...

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post #14 of 38 Old 04-30-2013, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Can you measure up to 200hz with your mains active?

I had actually measured upto 150Hz. Here is the response of sub only;




And this is the one with mains engaged and crossed at 80Hz in the AVR;




My speakers are Klipsch RF-82 II, RC-62 II, RS-52 II.

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post #15 of 38 Old 04-30-2013, 11:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
it looks like you have a nice big suckout at 72hz. seems to be going around lately. if there is a "fundamental" to mid-bass, that is probably about it. 72hz is 15.7 feet long in wavelength. a 1/4 wavelength reflection will create that kind of suckout. is the subwoofer located around 3.9 feet from a boundary, particularly the wall behind the subwoofer?

I think you are right coz the sub is about 3 inches from the rear wall, and it can't be pulled out any further. It's actually right in the middle of the side wall in the bay window recess. The LP is also roughly in the middle of the room coz it is a bedroom. The LP is a sofa placed right after the front end of the bed, which makes the LP roughly in the middle of the room. Mains and center channel are 12' from the LP.

I will be starting to build the second sub this weekend and plan on putting it smack in the middle of the opposite wall, which is on the right side of the LP. Do you think opposite locations will help smooth out the midbass?

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The best EQ is no EQ ...

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post #16 of 38 Old 05-01-2013, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

What are your mains?

Here are some pics of the speakers um using and the layout of listening area. Also there is a dome right above the LP.....I wonder if that is screwing the response. I plan on building the second cab and putting it in place of Def Tech along the opposite wall. I hope that will smooth out the response. Any thoughts??














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The best EQ is no EQ ...

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Dual Dayton RSS390HO-4 Reference 15 Build For HT

Main System: Klipsch RF-82 II, Klipsch RC-62 II, RS-52 II, Onkyo 5010, Rythmik FV15HP, PSB S300
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post #17 of 38 Old 05-01-2013, 05:13 PM
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Besides the 70 hz area, there's definitely some issues causing the perceived SQ issues

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post #18 of 38 Old 05-01-2013, 07:46 PM
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agree with jay. midbass runs easily up to 150hz so having that region eq'd so low relative to the other bass is going to cause it to sound anemic.

the suckout at 150hz is almost certainly 1/4 wave reflection of the mains off the wall behind the mains. that would happen at about 1.9 feet.

with the large distance seperating the mains from the sub and the close proximity to the sub of the listening position, extra care should be taken to ensure the good integration of the sub and the mains. how much delay is there on the mains and on the sub? and are either the subs or the mains wired and/or set for reverse polarity or any other phase changing settings?

turning the sub sideways along the wall will get the driver closer to the wall and reduce the distance and raise the cancellation up out of the subwoofer's passband.

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post #19 of 38 Old 05-01-2013, 07:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Besides the 70 hz area, there's definitely some issues causing the perceived SQ issue.

"Too Low + Suckout" region is where the mains are taking over from sub. I have checked many subs on the front stage next to the mains and have been completely disappointed by the response. The bass becomes completely void and magically disappears as if it isn't there at all. Do you think my room layout is the culprit?

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post #20 of 38 Old 05-01-2013, 08:05 PM - Thread Starter
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The physical distance of the sub from MLP (roughly center seat of sofa) is 5 feet. Setting the distance to 11.5 feet makes the sub in perfect phase with mains wrt MLP offering max spl at xo frequency (80Hz). Polarity is correct.

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post #21 of 38 Old 05-01-2013, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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will placing the second sub along the opposing wall right where SC Ref is help and effectively smooth out mid-bass?

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

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"Setting the distance to 11.5 feet makes the sub in perfect phase with mains wrt of MLP offering max spl at xo frequency (80Hz)."

what is the distance setting on the mains?

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post #23 of 38 Old 05-01-2013, 09:10 PM
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"will placing the second sub along the opposing wall right where SC Ref is help and effectively smooth out mid-bass?"

tough to say. it depends what is causing the problem to start with. without knowing that, it would just be guessing.

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post #24 of 38 Old 05-01-2013, 09:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Setting the distance to 11.5 feet makes the sub in perfect phase with mains wrt of MLP offering max spl at xo frequency (80Hz)."

what is the distance setting on the mains?

I think its 11 feet for the mains. So, mains are delayed by 1/2 an ms.

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post #25 of 38 Old 05-02-2013, 04:45 AM
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It is a huge suck-out you have. looks to me as if the mains and the sub is out of phase. Have you tried reversing the polarity on the sub? In post #19 you talk about the sub-sound dis a peering if moving the subwoofer to the front. That should also not happen if the sub and main is in phase, and the sub is located right next to a mainspeaker that does not have a suck-out problem.

Dan
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post #26 of 38 Old 05-10-2013, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Finally built the second box and took the FR. The best response was achieved by co-locating both the subs.

Nearfield Response

This time I took the response 5" from the center of cone rather than 1". Again it doesn't factor in the port contribution. The FR looks roughly the same for both subs;



MLP Response

That's the response at main LP without any EQ and without audyssey (Subs + Mains);


-3dB point is roughly 14Hz. I sacrificed a bit of depth in favour of comparatively smoother response in mid-bass region by co-locating both the subs right where def tech sc ref was.

The listening experience is beyond words both in movies and music. These two babies crush SC Ref with every subsonic shockwave giving bone jarring impact.

I feel sorry for myself for wasting $1900 on an utter crap like SC Ref. I wish I had gone DIY route earlier. The final paint job on the duals will be done next week. Final pics pending till then.

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The best EQ is no EQ ...

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post #27 of 38 Old 05-10-2013, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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I have taken BFD out of sound chain, coz I think it is not required anymore. A little tweaking can be done in the iNuke DSP also. I will recieve GLS Audio 12 AWG cable by end of next week to power the subs. Currently um using locally avaiilable 16 guage wire, which is not so good.

I need help in final placement for the amp;

  • Should I tuck it above the AVR in place of BFD in the rack up front below the screen, use RCA (Chord Crimson 3 feet cable) and feed the signal from AVR to iNuke through RCA to XLR adapter, and run 30+ feet of GLS Audio 12 AWG cable along the bends to the sub?
    OR
  • I also own a 50 feet GLS Audio balanced XLR cable. In this case should I place the amp on the subs, use the balanced cable for 30+ feet length upto the amp, and use less than 3-4 feet of GLS Audio 12 AWG speaker wire to feed the subs?

Which of the two options will carry cleaner signal to the power amp and further push maximum cleaner power to the subs? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

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post #28 of 38 Old 05-11-2013, 05:40 AM
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Braveheart, have you been able to fix the lack of mid-bass issues? If so, what was the key to fixing this
issue? How do you like having two of the Dayton HO15's now instead of just one?
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post #29 of 38 Old 05-11-2013, 05:43 AM
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LTD2- how do you figure out what tte 1/4 wave reflection is?

Also, how do you know how long in feet or inches a particular
frequency is?
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post #30 of 38 Old 05-11-2013, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

LTD2- how do you figure out what tte 1/4 wave reflection is?

Also, how do you know how long in feet or inches a particular
frequency is?

That's very simple. Let's say you have a suckout at 60Hz, the formula to calculate 1/4 wavelength reflection off the rear wall is as follows;

1/4(speed of sound/frequency) = 1/4 (345/60) = 1/4(5.75) = 1.4 meters = 1.4 x 3.28 = 4.59 feet

So, 4.59 feet should be the minimum distance of driver from the rear wall in order to avoid a 60Hz suckout.

Note: Speed of sound is temperature dependant.

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