Ep4000 bridged mode question - AVS Forum
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a Dayton HO 18' sub im powering with an ep4000. until i get the second sub, im going to run this one in bridged mode.. the sub can handle 900rms watts.. anyone have any idea where i should set the gain on the amp to be safe as to not overdrive the sub?
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Old 04-29-2013, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickThatStands View Post

I have a Dayton HO 18' sub im powering with an ep4000. until i get the second sub, im going to run this one in bridged mode.. the sub can handle 900rms watts.. anyone have any idea where i should set the gain on the amp to be safe as to not overdrive the sub?

You're going to have to test it. The gain will depend on the output voltage of your AVR or anything else in the chain. I would probably just set the receiver on whatever max level you will use it at and turn the gain up until a comfortable level or it starts making bad sounds, then turn it down a little.

Or you could just run it off 1 channel and get ~650W and have no issues. Especially if it's only temporary, it would be a lot easier to run off 1 channel. You would lose max 3dB I would guess between just running 1 channel vs finding the max the sub can take using bridged.

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Old 04-29-2013, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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alright i switched it to just using one channel. but, im still getting the clip light on the amp when the volume on the receiver gets to 72 or so.. i usually listen loud at 82.. which is referred to as THX Reference level on my receiver. Any ideas? I have the subwoofer set to -6db on the receiver.. on the back of the amp i have everything to the right (1-10), except for 3 and 8, which are the low cut filters, i have them set to off. there are clip limiter buttons, too. you can choose on or off.. i have them off, or should they be on? and even still, i feel like they shouldnt be clipping at this level...
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Old 04-29-2013, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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i just ran audyssey now and i had to turn the gain on the amp down to about 9oclock in order to be at 75db's (which it requires for the test). well when audyssey was done, it just seemed weak. I wasnt using **** for power on the amp. i started turning the gain up, and i get to about 11oclock before i start clipping at THX reference level volume (82 on my receiver).. Any ideas what is wrong here?

Should i run audyssey ignoring what decibal level it is at? should i just leave the gain all the way up right there? i belive it was at like 93+ db when i had the gain all the way up..

Im kinda clueless..
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:15 PM
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I have 1,3,8 and 10 to the right on my amp so the clip limiter is on and the low cut is off. If you have everything to the right you have it set up for bridged though, not single channel. Do you have the speaker wires running from the middle two terminals in bridged mode?

I have a balanced MiniDSP that boosts the signal to my amp and I set both gains at 8 o'clock for Audyssey. Then 11 o'clock is around 10dB hot and I clip around -10 to -15 on the receiver, though I often don't listen that loud. Clipping the amp is ~106dB at my couch during music for me.

You want to set the gain to 75dB during Audyssey because you want the end result to be between -3dB and +3dB. After that, you can bump up the sub level in the receiver or increase the gain on the amp. If you set it high to start with, then Audyssey will just have to make big cuts to get it back to reference level.

It's not a problem if the amp is clipping though. If you want it to clip at a higher volume on the receiver, just turn the gain down some. It would only be a problem, I think, if it wasn't output full power before it clips.

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Old 04-29-2013, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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naw i have everything in single channel, not bridged.i just have 3 and 8 over to the side, the rest off. See i listen to music quite loud, and pretty often. Sucks having the amp clip at such a level.. too low for me, for sure
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:31 PM
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If you have switches 6 and 7 to the right, then you have bridged mode on, not stereo or parallel. I'm not sure if you mean left or right when you say off, because not all the settings are on/off and not all off's are on the right. The amp clipping means it's giving full power. You can adjust at what level on the receiver it will clip at, but clipping is the most power you'll get out of it unless something is wrong. No setting will change that. If you have it setup for bridged, but then are running the top or bottom pair of terminals (instead of the middle 2), then that would cause a problem and I would be surprised if it played at all.

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Old 04-29-2013, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
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i dont have switches 6 and 7 on. when i hooked it up back into one channel, i set it accordingly. just 3 and 8 are on
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:35 PM
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Have you measured the output of the sub with an SPL meter while it clips during music to see how loud it is?

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Old 04-29-2013, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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no, i dont have an SPL meter as of right now. funds are tight. seems i keep pouring more and more into this project. i hope to get one at some point, but i was thinking i should have decent sound in the meantime
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:54 PM
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The EP4000 is known to be a very poorly built amp.
Maybe your amp is broken?
A CV-5000 is twice the power and much better built.
That said, in bridged mode you should have 2kW RMS on tap which should be more than enough to reach full excursion at 20hz.
Have you tried playing a 20hz tone using the REW generator into the amp?
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Old 04-29-2013, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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no i havent played the test tones yet. i did play a few bass songs, and it was impressive, but only at tolerable volumes (<--- not my cup of tea). This amp is clipping way earlier than i think it should, but then again, maybe im just being greedy.. not sure. I dont have a CV5000 unfortunately.. i do have a cv1800 that powers my front left/right. maybe i should try it for the sub, and use the ep4000 for the fronts?
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:00 PM
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Have you tried using the other channel? Are they both equally loud sounding? Try bridged mode if you want and just turn if down if it starts making bad sounds.

Plus, what are your expectations? Have you had a home theater sub before? A loud home theater sub and a loud car sub are completely different. You probably get less than 110dB at your listening position with that sub, whereas about any car sub could exceed that.

Unless your amp is defective, an amp that puts out twice the power would only gain you 3 dB, and that's with a little more power than I've seen anyone run. 3dB is a nice little increase, but it won't take you from disappointed to happy about the volume levels.

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Old 04-29-2013, 08:41 PM
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I think you're not used to reference level bass and pushing the driver too hard.
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I think you could be right that im pushing it too hard. not sure what actual decibal level im listening at. But i just dont get why the amp would be clipping with such little gain going to it. But dont get me wrong, there's bass.. just seems like something isnt right for it to be clipping where it is. About reference level bass.. Im not sure, and i know its different, but my buddy has two 12" JL's (i think w7's, but maybe something older). he usually has that rocking pretty hard, and in that small truck cab, i assume we are listening to reference level bass.. I could be wrong, i really dont know much as of yet. as of right now, i would be happy to just not see the clip light when listening at reference levels.
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:53 PM
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The knob level where is clips has nothing to do with output, it is just adjusting the output based on the output voltage of your receiver. If your receiver doesn't put out much voltage, then you might have to turn the gain all the way up to clip. If your receiver has a high output voltage, you might only need the gain halfway. You'll get the same power either way.

Pretty much no home theater is going to compete with a car. A pair of 12W7s will absolutely destroy your 18 in output. They probably put out ~140dB in the tiny cab, much, much louder than your house will ever be and much louder than reference.

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Old 04-29-2013, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
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thats what i assumed. Still wondering why im seeing clip lights at the sound levels im at.. we didnt listen to his speakers at 140dbl when we were in there. I just want to be able to listen to music at the volumes i normally do, without the amp clipping.
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Old 04-29-2013, 08:59 PM
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Turn the gain down and it won't clip. Or turn the sub level down on your receiver. You don't want it to be constantly clipping during music, correct, so just turn one of those two down until it stops clipping.

Living room: Definitive BP2000TL, CLR3000, BPVX, Quad SI 18" subs
Bedroom: Definitive BP30, CLR2000 Also have had: BP7000SC, BP8B, BP10B, BPX, Dayton 15" HF subs, Rythmik F15
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:03 PM - Thread Starter
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hmmm, if thats it, guess i was expecting a bit more from the sub.. the only way for it not to clip is to turn the gain down. thats going by my experience tonight. Ill still order the second and see if that maybe satisfies me more. Maybe its the amp dissappointing me.. im not sure, but something isnt adding up right for me as of now, and i thought it would, judging by reading other people's build threads
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:12 PM
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Compared to the output of any car sub, it will be disappointing. Adding another will gain you ~6dB if you put them in the same spot and probably closer to 3dB if you put it on the other side of the room. Building ported boxes could get you more output, though they'd be bigger.

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Bedroom: Definitive BP30, CLR2000 Also have had: BP7000SC, BP8B, BP10B, BPX, Dayton 15" HF subs, Rythmik F15
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Old 04-29-2013, 09:22 PM
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What size is your room? Have you tried different locations for the sub?

I have two 18" Daytons I run off an ep4000. I've never clipped the amp and the subs get very loud by my standards. Don't think I've ever listened to more than 10 below reference and usually listen to music around -20 or quieter. So not sure if I'd clip at reference but can't imagine I'd ever listen to music that loud.

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Old 04-29-2013, 09:30 PM - Thread Starter
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hmm, well let me know if you ever do listen at that volume, if your amp clips.. as for the sub location.. i have two spots to put subs. one in the corner, on one side of the couch, and one on hte other side of the couch. Ill be filling both spots with subs pretty soon. my room is an L-shaped apartment which i know sux. but its not big. `1600 cubic feet on the small of the L, and 1900 cubic feet on the long end of the L.. and thats being very generous. None the less, im just not understanding why the amp is clipping. Leave the sound aside, as im sure ill be impressed when i have two of them, it should help the sound.. Im worried about the fact that its clipping at less than reference volumes when just playing in one channel.. Thats whats got me confused. some say the amp gain doesnt matter, but it seems to affect the overall db level, according to audyssey, and according to watching the clip lights come on when you turn the gain up.
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:57 AM
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What color is the clip light?

Wonder if the amp is defective.


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Old 04-30-2013, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:47 AM
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Odd. I'd probably try exchanging the amp for a new one.

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Old 04-30-2013, 08:58 AM - Thread Starter
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sigh.. i dont like the sound of that. Ill fiddle around with it a little more when i get home before i do that.
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickThatStands View Post

i dont have switches 6 and 7 on. when i hooked it up back into one channel, i set it accordingly. just 3 and 8 are on

 

If 3 and 8 are on then the low cut filter is enabled.

 

 

I think this is how mine is setup using a single rca to xlr cable.

 

 

 

Quote:
clip light is red

 

When you setup Audyssey, do you adjust the sub trim on the receiver or do you leave it as is?

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Old 04-30-2013, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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3 and 8 clearly state that the low cut filter is off.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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hmm after playing a quick test tone run from 100 down to im not sure what Hz.. maybe im just being greedy. lol. It seems to pressurize the room pretty nicely without turning it up much. I guess i cna tone it back on the receiver if i want to get it up to ear peircing volumes.
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Old 05-01-2013, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is something i noticed.. When listening to music, i have to keep the gain at about 10oclock or so, and keep the subwoofer level on the receiver at 0db, and it will still start clipping at about 72 volume. However, when watching movies or TV, i can crank the gain all the way up, and turn the subwoofer level on the receiver to +12db, and not be clipping at 80+ volume.. Does this sound right to ya'll? I thought that Movie bass was more demanding than music bass? I watched the expendables II, just to check it, as it has lots of gunfire/explosions (such a cheesy movie btw, but still fun to see all the old guys together).

Not sure if it makes a huge difference, but i listen to movies and tv in ProLogicII/THX Cinema, and i listen to music in All Channel Stereo (because when im rocking out, i hardly just sit in the "sweet spot")
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