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post #181 of 314 Old 05-22-2013, 01:34 PM
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Maybe passive components in the active position then. Tiny little parts will cost you less, and you can relax knowing there's no digital manipulation going on.
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post #182 of 314 Old 05-22-2013, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hometheaterdoc View Post

Active has real benefits..... and every active crossover/EQ device I've ever used imparts it's own sonic signature on things....... and usually not in a good way.... I've yet to hear one that was sonically transparent.... you end up making different compromises compared to passive... mostly it comes down to whether there is enough positive with the active device to outweigh its negative sonic attributes...

as with anything, it's about the system synergy and what else is in the complete audio chain from start to finish.... running a $20 Aiwa DVD player as source into a $99 receiver with with certain compromised speaker designs is likely not a candidate for a $400 single cap in the speakers' crossover network....

Were the active crossover/EQ devices you used using an analog input?
I'd imagine that doing all EQ in the digital domain first before going through a DAC would have improvements over the conventional: source->dac->amp->crossover->speaker design.

Essentially it should be: source->EQ->dac->amp->speaker

NOT

source->dac->adc->EQ->dac->amp->speaker

This is where HTPC and JRiver + Audiolense,Acourate, etc comes into play.
I would think this kind of setup would be more accurate than the conventional crossover just like SS amps are more accurate than tube amps.
It's only a matter of time before it catches on. I mean, this is how recording studios work to begin with. If there is any "sonic signature" from this setup, every single digital source would have a "sonic signature."
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post #183 of 314 Old 05-22-2013, 04:41 PM
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Yelnatsch517- how would it be possible to do something like that? I believe that NAD offers a music streamer or some sort of devise that keeps everything digital through the entire signal chain. Any suggestions on components and specific brands and models to do this the optimal way that you suggest? Is there a way to do this without spending tons of cash?
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post #184 of 314 Old 05-22-2013, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Yelnatsch517- how would it be possible to do something like that? I believe that NAD offers a music streamer or some sort of devise that keeps everything digital through the entire signal chain. Any suggestions on components and specific brands and models to do this the optimal way that you suggest? Is there a way to do this without spending tons of cash?

Desertdome would be the member to ask about all this. I just recently started looking into this from something he mentioned and it just made sense to me.
The most versatile option that I know of would be to go through an HTPC + JRiver combination.

I really like this method because it is a one time setup cost. Any changes in speakers later one wouldn't require entire new component costs, just tweaking the EQ parameters in the digital domain.
This is a HUGE plus for people who often change speakers, I would imagine. So even something like a few thousand dollars would be less as compared to purchasing parts for many crossovers.
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post #185 of 314 Old 05-22-2013, 06:44 PM
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All the info for both of these designs including the TD15M-4 + DNA-360/SEOS-12 design can now be found in the DIY Sound Group forums under the SEOS Speaker Designs category.
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post #186 of 314 Old 05-22-2013, 06:46 PM
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What is a HTPC? Home theater personal computer? How would that make this possible? I need to do some more research on this, but from what I currently understand, you can get music from a computer through something like the JRiver or NAD, and keep it in the digital domain all the way until it gets to the speakers, but I don't believe that this is possible with movies as the technology is not there yet.
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post #187 of 314 Old 05-22-2013, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

What is a HTPC? Home theater personal computer? How would that make this possible? I need to do some more research on this, but from what I currently understand, you can get music from a computer through something like the JRiver or NAD, and keep it in the digital domain all the way until it gets to the speakers, but I don't believe that this is possible with movies as the technology is not there yet.

You can use JRiver to play any media including movies. If I were building a setup, I would have JRiver set to duplicate each channel 3 times, ie. 3x left channel, 3x right channel, etc. I would then EQ each channel individually and send those to a dac, which would go to an amp and then to corresponding speaker drivers.
Using this method, you literally have an infinite number of possibilities and you can essentially create a custom crossover personalized for YOUR room. This will be better than any generalized crossover design for a passive speaker since the active crossover is tailored specifically.

Not to mention, you can achieve 48dB/ octave crossover. Try designing one of those using passive components.
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post #188 of 314 Old 05-22-2013, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I really debated going active seeing as I have a 7 channel amp that I could have used. Maybe down the road I will. At this point I felt more comfortable going active. It was my decision to upgrade the parts, and decision I feel would be worth the investment. After how much more this build cost than originally anticipated; I would have regretted cheaping out on the xover.

I was supposed to be off today, but got called into work; so I was running around like crazy trying to get things finished up before the weekend. I have company coming into town for the holiday and I am bond and determined to have this thing up and running. Even if it kills me. biggrin.gif

My height cabs are pretty much done other than paint. They aren't perfect, but they are functional and will be hidden behind the screen wall so I doubt I'll lose too much sleep over it. The part that really screws with my OCD is the fact I glued my baffle on a hair bit crooked. I'm off over a 1/16" of an inch which really drives me crazy. cool.gif





I also got the equipment rack pretty much completely wired up. When I build the rack I didn't plan on putting 2 EP4000's in there. I had to remove the rubber feet to get them to fit, and even then it was really, really freaking close.



The main cabs are pretty much finished up. I just barely had enough Duratex to put two layers on them. The Duratex container is almost clean enough to eat out of after scraping everything out of it I could. biggrin.gif All that's left is to wire them up, add some fluffy stuff, and install the xover.






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post #189 of 314 Old 05-23-2013, 08:57 AM
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looking great!! i always have projects im wrapping up minutes before company comes over as well. wife hates that! dont underestimate how long it takes to get the cabs insulated and wired up. you know that though!! cool.gif


you going to have room to tow those mains in? might have to remove some bass trapping or whatever that is

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post #190 of 314 Old 05-23-2013, 09:11 AM
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Looking fantastic. Still excited to hear about your broken jaw.
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post #191 of 314 Old 05-23-2013, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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you going to have room to tow those mains in? might have to remove some bass trapping or whatever that is

I should. It's a close fit between these and my corner traps. It's tough to tell from the pics, but they are towed in quite a bit right now. I probably won't go crazy extreme (towed to intersect in front of listener) due to running two rows, but it should be plenty sufficient.
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Looking fantastic. Still excited to hear about your broken jaw.

I'll be sure to include my current medical report with my listening impressions. biggrin.gif

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post #192 of 314 Old 05-23-2013, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Not much to report tonight. I did manage to get my TD6 enclosures painted. Just slapped on some flat black paint and called it a day. The cabs still have a couple of minor flaws that could have been sanded out, but once again, they are going behind my screen wall. That being said, they will still pass most peoples inspection. smile.gif


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post #193 of 314 Old 05-24-2013, 08:26 AM
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I think they look great!
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post #194 of 314 Old 05-24-2013, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I think they look great!

Thanks Matt. smile.gif

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post #195 of 314 Old 05-24-2013, 10:43 AM
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post #196 of 314 Old 05-24-2013, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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agree those do look nice

Thanks. I'm stoked. Matt's gift basket biggrin.gif just showed up so I'll be wiring, and soldering tonight. With any luck I'll have them up and running by tomorrow evening.

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post #197 of 314 Old 05-24-2013, 11:01 AM
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Looking stellar. Great build. Thanks to Matt for posting the Xover as well and making another option available.

We should listen to see if we can hear (or feel) each other's build testing this weekend.
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post #198 of 314 Old 05-24-2013, 12:20 PM
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Thanks. I'm stoked. Matt's gift basket biggrin.gif just showed up so I'll be wiring, and soldering tonight. With any luck I'll have them up and running by tomorrow evening.

Got to love this point in a project - so close to listening! Another in agreement here that they're turning out fantastic!
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post #199 of 314 Old 05-24-2013, 12:34 PM
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Got to love this point in a project - so close to listening! Another in agreement here that they're turning out fantastic!

100% in agreement biggrin.gif
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post #200 of 314 Old 05-24-2013, 01:06 PM
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Man, BA, this build reeks awesomeness! Now, mount those beautiful TD6's in there and let'em rip!
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post #201 of 314 Old 05-24-2013, 05:40 PM
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If my build testing I'm doing right now is any indication of what you will be hearing with your AE woofers and 4550, you're going to be blown away. I'm loving it right now.
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post #202 of 314 Old 05-24-2013, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
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If my build testing I'm doing right now is any indication of what you will be hearing with your AE woofers and 4550, you're going to be blown away. I'm loving it right now.

I'll have to take your word for it. I for the life of me can't find my terminal plugs. mad.gif I don't know where the heck I put them. That's about the only thing left and I can get these things mounted up.

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post #203 of 314 Old 05-24-2013, 08:50 PM
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Run the wires out your ports for now wink.gif
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post #204 of 314 Old 05-24-2013, 09:05 PM
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Or drill a small hole in the back where you are going to mount them just large enough to fish the wire through then apply just enough hot glue to seal the hole. You could even use masking tape to seal it up by using two pieces applied from opposite sides and pressed together around the wire.
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post #205 of 314 Old 05-24-2013, 10:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I found them. Only thing worse than losing them, is spending 1-1/2 hours looking, only to find them 5' from where I thought they were. cool.gif

In the meantime I decided to tear down (literally), my old height mounts and try and stuff these giants into place. Well after a whole lot of fiberglass cutting (I'm itching like a mofo now), I think I can rig up a system to make them work perfectly. They just happen to squeeze in between the beam where my screen will go and the ceiling. I'll just mount a board on top of the screen brace and anchor these to it at the appropriate angle. Tight squeeze but she'll make it. Weather stripping installed and cabs are stuffed and ready to go. Tomorrow night I'll let my wife entertain company while I get them wired up and dropped into place. biggrin.gif



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post #206 of 314 Old 05-25-2013, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by yelnatsch517 View Post

You can use JRiver to play any media including movies. If I were building a setup, I would have JRiver set to duplicate each channel 3 times, ie. 3x left channel, 3x right channel, etc. I would then EQ each channel individually and send those to a dac, which would go to an amp and then to corresponding speaker drivers.
Using this method, you literally have an infinite number of possibilities and you can essentially create a custom crossover personalized for YOUR room. This will be better than any generalized crossover design for a passive speaker since the active crossover is tailored specifically.

Not to mention, you can achieve 48dB/ octave crossover. Try designing one of those using passive components.


With regards to the JRiver that you mentioned, I don't believe that you can get Bluray quality sound out of this JRiver component. If you could, then I would be all over it.
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post #207 of 314 Old 05-25-2013, 07:15 AM
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JRiver is capable of really excellent SQ with BR. I recently switched to JR + a good DAC straight to the power amps & found that my "old" player + pre-pro based system was actually limiting SQ. JR has come a long way in the past few years.

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post #208 of 314 Old 05-25-2013, 07:29 AM
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JRiver is capable of really excellent SQ with BR. I recently switched to JR + a good DAC straight to the power amps & found that my "old" player + pre-pro based system was actually limiting SQ. JR has come a long way in the past few years.

Seems as if I'm seeing JRiver implementation mentioned everywhere these days.

Interesting ...

------------------------------------
Flat, Deep, Clean, Linear, and Loud
------------------------------------
Active 16.8kw, 7.3 system
(3)Seaton Cat12C up front, (4)QSC K8 sides/rears
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post #209 of 314 Old 05-25-2013, 10:51 AM
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With regards to the JRiver that you mentioned, I don't believe that you can get Bluray quality sound out of this JRiver component. If you could, then I would be all over it.

Any reason why you would think this? It is straight lossless LPCM to the external DAC through USB.
JRiver is just software. How you use it in conjunction with hardware is up to the individual.

The key being that JRiver has parametric EQ and 64 bit native convolution engine, or you can use plugins like Audiolense for FIR filter room correction.
This is something impossible with passive crossovers.

Trust me, I'd consider myself a perfectionist when it comes to these things. If JRiver wasn't capable of the highest quality sound, I wouldn't even bother mentioning it.
The DAC that you use will determine the SQ of your system. Before that, everything is pure digital so nothing, absolutely nothing, is lost.
And, like I said, if someone is going to spend a few hundred or thousand dollars on crossover components, I'd personally recommend investing in a high quality DAC instead, like the Mytek 8X192.
You could even build DIY DAC, ie. Twisted Pear Audio Buffalo III.

For active crossover duty, you'd need more channels so something like the Orion 32 channel DAC could work, but the THD being only -98dB is a little troubling for me, again only because I'm a perfectionist.
I would prefer something in the -110dB range, which I have yet to find.

Sorry bassaddict for being offtopic.
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post #210 of 314 Old 05-25-2013, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry bassaddict for being offtopic.

LOL. No worries. I would probably be disappointed if a thread didn't get off topic. cool.gif

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