My Microwrecker build ( with either kicker cvx-15 or pa mofo 152x /154x) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 68 Old 05-03-2013, 12:08 AM - Thread Starter
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im going to be building two micro wreckers here this week but have been looking for a driver with a lil more power handling then the kicker.

i have 2 amps that can each do either
1300W rms @ 8 ohms
or
1700w rms @ 4 ohms in bridged operation

or in stereo ( 2 channel)

525wpc @ 8 ohms
850wpc @ 4 ohms
1100wpc @ 2 ohms


was hoping lilmike or someone could run a sim with the pa mofo specs for me to see how well they would work , they seem close to the alpine type s which lilmike says works in the microwrecker


heres the specs on the power acoustic mofo
Code:

                       MOFO-152X             MOFO-154X
Fs                        24.07                             24.4
Qms               6.103                             5.95
Vas                     3.761                           4.077
Xmax mm         15                      15
Xmech mm        22.5                    22.5
Qes           0.48                      0.51
Re                     3.95                     7.23
Znom               4                                8
BL                       21.00                  26.32
Power           1700                  1700
Qts                      0.445                  0.47
SPL            86.9                    86.97
V.C. Size (in.) 2.5                             2.5
V.C. Imp        DVC 2   DVC 4
Cut-out         14.125  14.125
Depth   8.125   8.125


if my post above hapens to get all messed up the specs can be found on this page
http://www.poweracoustik.com/pa2012/subs-MOFO-152X.html


if someone could run it for me it would be greatly apreciated
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post #2 of 68 Old 05-03-2013, 05:26 AM
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I'm looking forward to the build pics smile.gif
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post #3 of 68 Old 05-03-2013, 11:29 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm looking forward to the build pics smile.gif

as long as nothing comes up at work tommorow i should be starting the boxes, ill be sure to take plenty of pictures
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post #4 of 68 Old 05-03-2013, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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this is the pair of subs im currently using that the micro wreckers will be replacing



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post #5 of 68 Old 05-03-2013, 01:14 PM
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Those numbers give me most of what I need, I'll run sims tonight if I have the time.

The only question I have is how accurate the provided specs are.
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post #6 of 68 Old 05-03-2013, 02:33 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks lilmike

ur quess is as good as mine as to wether those specs are truley accurate , what i do know is that those mofo 15's do get very loud i have a friend whop ran 2 of them in his blazer in a large ported box , and it was stupid loud

i do know the rms ratings are bogus as they can only handle about a true 1k w rms before u start to burn up the vc
the plus side is u can get drop in recone kits for them for 50-60 bucks
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post #7 of 68 Old 05-03-2013, 08:05 PM
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Well - using the supplied specs, they both may work. The 152 looks a bit better than the 154, though they are both a bit light on motor.

Unless I had them already, I'd pass and just buy the Alpine Type S 15, cause it is cheaper, it offers more throw, and it is just a better driver all around.

If I had em (and I knew the specs were accurate), I'd consider building the LilWrecker instead, but they should work OK in the Micro if the specs are correct and the cabinet size is a better fit.
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post #8 of 68 Old 05-03-2013, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Well - using the supplied specs, they both may work. The 152 looks a bit better than the 154, though they are both a bit light on motor.

Unless I had them already, I'd pass and just buy the Alpine Type S 15, cause it is cheaper, it offers more throw, and it is just a better driver all around.

If I had em (and I knew the specs were accurate), I'd consider building the LilWrecker instead, but they should work OK in the Micro if the specs are correct and the cabinet size is a better fit.

thanks lil mike, im propably going with the kickers , u did say they do handle the full 1k w rms in the micro wrecker correct?

any idea of the spl difference between the type s and the kicker in the micro wrecker ?
i want to build them which ever driver will give me the most spl
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post #9 of 68 Old 05-04-2013, 01:14 AM - Thread Starter
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just to give u guys an idea of how ill be using these
unfortunately my iphone really screws up the audio, it completely wipes out any LF and distorts everything else when the volume is up

heres a video with my old htc phone , much better sound but crappy video go figure
looking forward to getting these cabs built and having useable response below 35-40 hz as thats were my current 18's really fall off at
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post #10 of 68 Old 05-04-2013, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davece View Post

thanks lil mike, im propably going with the kickers , u did say they do handle the full 1k w rms in the micro wrecker correct?

any idea of the spl difference between the type s and the kicker in the micro wrecker ?
i want to build them which ever driver will give me the most spl

Well - wired as an 8 ohm load, I've had no issues at all with mine, and I get all the lights lit on my iNuke 3000 bridged into the one.



That was the day I was blowing out candles.

I am running a 48 dB/oct. 20 Hz highpass. Sure, I smell a bit of warm varnish from time to time, but I've run this one plenty hard with no drama. I don't gig with it though - it is in my home theater system.

For SPL - really - it is an easy answer. Regardless of the driver used, just build as many cabinets as you can afford to.
Since I can't really afford the elite drivers, my rule of thumb is that once past about 120 dB per cabinet, it is time to start thinking about adding another cabinet.
The Type S is only about 3 dB down from the Kicker at fill tilt, but there are options that may be even better than the Kicker driver.

I have CVXs already, and limited "fun" money, so I used the CVXs.
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post #11 of 68 Old 05-05-2013, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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for the cost of 2 kickers and the materials , i could build 4 microwreckers witht he aplines so thats what im going to do.

i have enough material here to build 2 but unfortunately work got in the way this weekend of getting started on them.
im hoping to get a start on them after this week. i run the billing dept at work and being the first week of the month this week im going to be pretty tied up
at the end of the week im going to pick up more materials to build 4, ill prolly get all 4 drivers ordered today or tommorow

my last question is is there a difference between the dual 2 ohm and dual 4 ohm alpine s 15's
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post #12 of 68 Old 05-06-2013, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davece View Post

for the cost of 2 kickers and the materials , i could build 4 microwreckers witht he aplines so thats what im going to do.

i have enough material here to build 2 but unfortunately work got in the way this weekend of getting started on them.
im hoping to get a start on them after this week. i run the billing dept at work and being the first week of the month this week im going to be pretty tied up
at the end of the week im going to pick up more materials to build 4, ill prolly get all 4 drivers ordered today or tommorow

my last question is is there a difference between the dual 2 ohm and dual 4 ohm alpine s 15's

Both model fine. Use the one that fits your amp situation best.
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post #13 of 68 Old 05-07-2013, 04:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Both model fine. Use the one that fits your amp situation best.
ok figured id ask if there was a diference before i ordered them since any of my amps can easily over power the alpines

im going to get 4 2ohm alpine s's and wire them 2 cabs per channel( 2 ohm load) on my amp , this will give 1100 w rms per channel so about 525w rms per speaker , should really limit me from being tempted to really crank on them to hard, this will also free up the second amp for backup duty or if i just need to build more cabs lmao

i have a feeling 4 cabs should be more then enough though
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post #14 of 68 Old 05-28-2013, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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guess i should update this i got my alpines in just havent had time to start building the boxes, im hoping tommorow i can get started, would be really nice to have theese done for a gig i have this weekend


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post #15 of 68 Old 05-29-2013, 05:41 PM - Thread Starter
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well i got one almost done , so far im in 2 hours and this is what ive got done , oh yeah my local store wanted way to much for the birch plywood so i went with osb instead.

dont mind my lack of tools lmao, i did get all the wood cut at my local hardware store though , and the guy managed to get every cut dead on








taking a break for a lil while but im going to finish this one tonight , i have a feeling its going to make its way into my truck to see how it does as a car audio sub box, if its good im going to build one just for the truck as well
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post #16 of 68 Old 05-29-2013, 06:15 PM
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I don't think you're supposed to use chip board to build those, 3/4 arauco ply at a minimum as far as I know.

But hey, if it works- more power to you!
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post #17 of 68 Old 05-29-2013, 06:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by stormwind13 View Post

I don't think you're supposed to use chip board to build those, 3/4 arauco ply at a minimum as far as I know.

But hey, if it works- more power to you!

lilmike said osb would be better then mdf , so far its gone together the screws hold tight and nothing is twisting or cracking so i think it will be fine , specially once the bracing is in place,
my local hardware store/lumber mill wanted 75 bucks a sheet for birch plywood , so for my first one i said screw it and went witht he osb , this way if i did screw it up somehow i wouldnt be out a ton of money
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post #18 of 68 Old 05-29-2013, 08:18 PM
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understandable. 75 bucks a sheet is ridiculous.
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post #19 of 68 Old 05-29-2013, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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alls i can say is wow , 2 of these will deffinatly do , right now i have the first hooked up and it kills my pair of 18's , and to top it off the speaker isnt fully broken in yet.
even though 2 will be more then enough im deff building 3 more , guess i better order 2 more 15's lol
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post #20 of 68 Old 05-29-2013, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormwind13 View Post

I don't think you're supposed to use chip board to build those, 3/4 arauco ply at a minimum as far as I know.

But hey, if it works- more power to you!

Look up the actual specs of the material. In the same thickness, OSB is nearly as stiff as plywood, and far stiffer than MDF or chipboard.

I use it for prototyping all the time. It just doesn't take a typical finish well.
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post #21 of 68 Old 05-29-2013, 10:27 PM - Thread Starter
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lilmike u are the man, this is one hell of a cab/box thanks for making the plans available ., cant wait to build more.
just for the hell of it before i called it a night , i turned my 18's on and they even play nice together as far as i could tell anyway , didnt seem to be any canceling or other wierd stuff. soon as i get the othe rbuilt my 18's are deff going up for sale
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post #22 of 68 Old 05-30-2013, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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lilmike can u give me an idea on what i should be running for an eq curve with this box?


so far i have my eg pretty flat with a 3db @ 32hz, , 2db @ 64hz , and -2 @ 125hz

oh yeah and leason learned , do not stick ur head in the mouth of the box , the ****** bites lmao
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post #23 of 68 Old 05-30-2013, 04:16 PM
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Hmmm, I whipped up a basic MiniDSP EQ, based on the simulation, lemme see if I can find it.

OK - based on the simulation, I'd do something like the following:

-3 dB at 63 Hz, Q7
-6 dB at 93 Hz, Q7
-10 dB at 132 Hz, Q7
-10 dB at 160 Hz, Q7
-15 dB at 203 Hz, Q7

Might take a little fiddling/adjusting by ear, depends on your EQ. If you feel you need to boost things with EQ, avoid applying it at 25 Hz and 50 Hz, and don't add more than about 3 dB.

Highpass at 20 Hz, lowpass to suit your needs, they should be OK to 160 or so.

Without measurements, this is only a guess.
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post #24 of 68 Old 05-30-2013, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

Hmmm, I whipped up a basic MiniDSP EQ, based on the simulation, lemme see if I can find it.

OK - based on the simulation, I'd do something like the following:

-3 dB at 63 Hz, Q7
-6 dB at 93 Hz, Q7
-10 dB at 132 Hz, Q7
-10 dB at 160 Hz, Q7
-15 dB at 203 Hz, Q7

Might take a little fiddling/adjusting by ear, depends on your EQ. If you feel you need to boost things with EQ, avoid applying it at 25 Hz and 50 Hz, and don't add more than about 3 dB.

Highpass at 20 Hz, lowpass to suit your needs, they should be OK to 160 or so.

Without measurements, this is only a guess.

unfortunatly my crossover doent do highpass and i have the xover at 150 hz im actually going to drop it to 100hz , i have been amusing myself by playing my car audio bass cd's threw it sub 20hz is fun shakes the hell out of the whole room


i did have on emore question im having trouble cutting the one angled board , will it hurt the box to just make it squared on that corner?
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post #25 of 68 Old 05-30-2013, 09:52 PM
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I added that for a couple reasons, looks and strength. It also provides a nice spot to put the speakon and still get the cabinet back into a corner, as well as a spot to put some wheels if so inclined.

I cut mine with a circ saw and a straightedge guide. Sure - it was a touch sketchy, but not near as sketchy as when I tried to use the tablesaw. I revised the drawing to make those angles a miter as a result of that, the version you have is FAR easier to cut.

Will leaving it square alter the sound?? No idea, I didn't build mine that way, but it probably will.

I can't stress this enough, highpassing these is not an option, especially at war volume. I really recommend a 20 Hz highpass, with at least a 24 dB slope/octave.
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post #26 of 68 Old 05-30-2013, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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i have a gig saturday and theres now way i can get a new xover in time , i can however use the dsp in my dj software and use the eq to get a 12 db cut from 20hz down .

im going to borrow my friends circular saw tommorow and get that angled piece cut right
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post #27 of 68 Old 05-31-2013, 11:41 AM
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War volume- I like it.
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post #28 of 68 Old 05-31-2013, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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software filter works good played a 10hz test tone @ low volume with the filter engaged and it worked perfect so untill my new xover gets here i will use the software based solution for now

lilmike these things are badass indoors i have the pair built they work great, i have been asked to dj a gig for the township for a 20k run how well will these boxes work outdoors?
my 18's would work ok since i wont be playing any dubstep/techno stuff but id need atleast another pair for good sound outdoors.

if the microwreckers would work well id rather build 2-4 more for the outdoor gig since i can build 2 for about the same price as those other single 18's are ( 2 microwreckers costing me about 30 bucks more )
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post #29 of 68 Old 05-31-2013, 03:48 PM
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I've only used mine indoors, but I measured things outside. They measured "right" outside, and they sound good inside.

Seems to me that if they work indoors, they should work outside too...but you might want a few more of them to make up for the lack of boundary reinforcement.
Since they're designed to be flat to the horn corner, they won't go any lower in a stack, but they will get louder and the response will smooth out a bit too.
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post #30 of 68 Old 05-31-2013, 07:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

I've only used mine indoors, but I measured things outside. They measured "right" outside, and they sound good inside.

Seems to me that if they work indoors, they should work outside too...but you might want a few more of them to make up for the lack of boundary reinforcement.
Since they're designed to be flat to the horn corner, they won't go any lower in a stack, but they will get louder and the response will smooth out a bit too.

thanks going to order some more alpines on monday so ill end up with 2 pairs of micro wreckers.

and i did get that angles corner fixed it deffinatly makes a difference, sound was a lil louder and cleaner once i got rid of the 90* corner and put the 45* angle cut in there


ive got a video of the microwreckers playing in a 2500 sqft room ill have to upload to youtube in a lil while.,next up im going to have to upgrade my mains
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