7 SEOS12's, 7 Cel 15's, 6 Dayton UM's, Build Thread - Page 20 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #571 of 580 Unread 01-08-2016, 12:11 PM
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You should check your set up because there isn't a 10 - 15db drop in any of the kits, or any of the compression drivers I've ever tested, even without a crossover.

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post #572 of 580 Unread 01-08-2016, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
You should check your set up because there isn't a 10 - 15db drop in any of the kits, or any of the compression drivers I've ever tested, even without a crossover.
Here are all 7 of my tweeters, both Active NoEQ and Active+EQ, and Passive NoEQ

The two Active EQ'ed tweeters (Red and Green) are the flattest of the 7, but only because they are being forced flat electronically with 10db of HF boost, to emulate what the passive XO's are doing. Yellow and Black are the same tweeters but with no EQ (i.e raw).

In all cases there is a general downward trend from 95db as 20khz is approached.
(I assume the 22khz peak is some sort of ultrasonic breakup and not a flaw in my CSL UMIK...)





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post #573 of 580 Unread 01-08-2016, 10:55 PM
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Are these from one exact location or is the mic moved a few inches here or there between each measurement?
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post #574 of 580 Unread 01-09-2016, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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There is some small deviation to how I am measuring them sure, but it is rather small once you apply smoothing and look at the flatness of the SEOS vs the B&W 803.
There is clearly a general pattern there.

As long as the Fostex is flat to 24kHz like the B&W, but also 100db-ish per watt like the pro mids, then that is good-enough for me. If it is flat to 40-50kHz, then all the better I suppose...


note: I have never noticed this rolloff with movies/tv, only with music does it really stand out (but *only if* you know the songs well previously on flat speakers and are a golden ear. Otherwise you probably wouldn't notice it!)
You can force the SEOS flatter than this with EQ, but it starts sounding unnaturally-bright if you do that. So that's not a proper solution IMO...
The BA-750 would undoubtedly be flatter, but it's 3x the cost of these Fostex's and the Fostex's are "supposedly" rated to well-over 30khz, so it just makes sense to try them first. (We will see just how flat they are in just a few more days...)
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post #575 of 580 Unread 01-09-2016, 02:46 PM
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I asked about the deviation between measurements because I wanted to know if it could be an artifact of having the mic exactly where it was. Horns have many pitfalls. Mine did not sound good with any boosting at all. Sounded too bright, but measured a gradual falloff even with a huge 0 to 15db gradual boost. Still haven't worked out why, need a new soundcard to measure more.
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post #576 of 580 Unread 01-10-2016, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
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I asked about the deviation between measurements because I wanted to know if it could be an artifact of having the mic exactly where it was. Horns have many pitfalls. Mine did not sound good with any boosting at all. Sounded too bright, but measured a gradual falloff even with a huge 0 to 15db gradual boost. Still haven't worked out why, need a new soundcard to measure more.
Were you running analog XO's, or digital XO's /w passive speakers? (It makes a big differences to the rolloff. Digital being worse for rolloff in this case.)

My LR are 100% digital as of 6 months ago.
Prior to that I was a mix of both cascaded together (did that since 2009-ish).
Prior to 2009 I was 100% analog with no quad-amping or bi-amping or monoblocks. A lot has changed in my system since then. I use a LOT more amplifiers now, with no end in sight...
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post #577 of 580 Unread 01-10-2016, 08:42 PM
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I'm running this crossover (pdf). I assume its analogue. Then the signal from the crossover goes to the amps respectively. When I get a new soundcard I can measure the thing properly to see how it actually functions, it seems the knobs show 0db point not -3db or -6db. So putting crossover on lets say 1khz and 1khz on the low and high to get a 2-way system with crossover at 1khz, is wrong.

What crossover setup do you have now? I'm going to replace the alto POS666 to something better soon.
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post #578 of 580 Unread 01-11-2016, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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The Fostex's have arrived.
They are slightly smaller than I imagined they'd be.


Here is what REW says:

Not as flat as the B&W's but for $48 you can't complain.

Apparently the SEOS's on-axis is as flat as the Fostex's 90 off-axis response.

Now I have to integrate them.
(I'll eventually have to build something to hold them in place too.)
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post #579 of 580 Unread 01-11-2016, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok I think I have it dialled in.
I did a 10kHz 24db oct XO.
Here is a before and after:

First attempt anyways!
I'll run with this for now and see how I like it...

Initial listening: It definitely isn't bad. But it is too early to say it is an improvement just yet...
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post #580 of 580 Unread 01-12-2016, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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I had to adjust the delay (which took me all night to dial in) and now I'm trying an XO of 13kHz which integrates flawlessly (IMO), the Fostex needed to fire 0.15ms before the SEOS to align the two together, at least when you just hang the tweeter over the edge like this, if it were flush mounted to the baffle the delay would definitely shorten.

It sounds as good as I had hoped for. I'm happy with the treble (for now).

For vocals, the S's and T's and Z's and K's and C's are much improved, which (to me) makes all the difference in the world when it comes to musical-SQ...

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