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post #1 of 19 Old 05-12-2013, 01:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking for some advice for a speaker system for my HT. My current system consists of a Denon 4311 feeding a hodgepodge of speakers with an old pair of Bose 601’s for L/R I’ve been using since the late 80’s. As you can imagine, this speaker setup sounds like crap in this room, so now I need to do something to remedy the situation. After researching speakers on this forum for several months, I have come to the conclusion that DIY is my best option for a speaker upgrade (should've known it would come down to this since due to AVS forum, I've built a projection screen, HTPC, projector mount, and OTA antenna). I’ve read lots of good reviews on internet direct systems and could afford to spend $6k on L/C/R speakers. However, since I am coming from such crappy speakers to start with, from what I've read, I think any DIY system would be complete audio nirvana compared to what I’m used to. Also, with the money saved, I could add multiple subs and rear surrounds. I was an USAF aircraft avionics tech in my past life so I can solder and read schematics and it looks like the availability of flat packs makes the woodworking part easy. Also, may take a leap and just buy some wood working tools. Therefore, I’d like to enlist the forum’s help in choosing something that will best fit my scenario.

My HT is in my living room which is a large open floor plan with vaulted ceilings and open to a dining area. The listening area is 22X23 ft, and with the open dining area, I estimate this to be around 8-10K cu ft. Also in the rear of the listening position are two large arches that open up to the kitchen area. Here is a layout of my floor plan and a pic of the living room.





From reading here on the forum, due to the large area, it looks like I will be best served with high sensitivity speakers and multiple subs. Also, since its the living room, use will be both HT and music. What DIY kits would you recommend for fronts, center and surrounds? I am also thinking I will need at least 4, 18" subs in my setup. 2 up front and 2 in the rear of the listening position. Any recommendations on subs and amps for my room? As you can see from the mess in the pic, wife will be happy with just about anything other then what I have now.

Thanks
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post #2 of 19 Old 05-12-2013, 01:48 PM
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The second picture is upside down.

 

I would recommend three of these http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion12-kit.html

Plus the three enclosures http://www.diysoundgroup.com/flat-packs-1/2-cuft-tall-seos-flat-pack.html

 

When these flat packs come back in stock get four of them for 18" subs

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/4-sub-flat-pack.html

 

Then you got these 18" subs x4

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-472

 

To power the subs you can go with a Inuke 6000 DSP. If you want a lot of power then the Cerwin Vega CV 5000 will do nicely, add a minidsp for EQ. I don't know how big of a surround you wanted but you can choose any of these on the site.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits.html

 

The total cost of everything will probably be around $3500-$4000 with paint. That leaves more than enough to get room treatments and any other goodies like a calibrated mic...

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post #3 of 19 Old 05-12-2013, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the suggestions. From everything I read about the Fusion-12s it sounds like they would sound good in my situation. For surrounds the link you provided listed every speaker available on diysoundgroup. I want to start with 2 surrounds and then add 2 more at a later date for behind the listening position. Would it be wise to stick with the Fusion series and go with something like a Fusion-8, or would another series work better as surrounds. Or, should I just use Fusion-12s all around? biggrin.gif

I can only imagine how great four 18" subs will sound. I currently have a 12" passive sub hooked to an old Yamaha M45 amp for power. It is so inadequate, I can't even get to 75db when I run Audyssey. As soon as those flat packs are available, I have a feeling all that's about to change.
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post #4 of 19 Old 05-14-2013, 03:56 AM
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I would go with 3 of the following combinations of drivers for your LCR's:
Seos-15 + BMS-4550 + TD15M

Then add in a pair of tte following for rears:
Seos-12 + DNA-360 + TD12M

Then go with 4 of the Dayton HO-18's with the flat packs that were suggested above.

That would be a killer combination of speakers! With your budget of up to $6,000 dollars you could
always step it up a notch and go with the Seos-24 + BMS-4594 + TD15M. That would give you a wold
class setup! What ever you end up goi g with, I am sure that you will enjoy it!
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post #5 of 19 Old 05-14-2013, 05:17 AM
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If you brand new to DIY my advise would be stick with one of the proven kits with an existing baffle and crossover design. Building a new design from scratch is not an easy task and it can be very time consuming as well as frustrating for a new builder. DIY sound group has a kit for almost any need - the tempest and sentinel are some of my favorites.
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post #6 of 19 Old 05-14-2013, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I would go with 3 of the following combinations of drivers for your LCR's:
Seos-15 + BMS-4550 + TD15M

Then add in a pair of tte following for rears:
Seos-12 + DNA-360 + TD12M

Then go with 4 of the Dayton HO-18's with the flat packs that were suggested above.

That would be a killer combination of speakers! With your budget of up to $6,000 dollars you could
always step it up a notch and go with the Seos-24 + BMS-4594 + TD15M. That would give you a wold
class setup! What ever you end up goi g with, I am sure that you will enjoy it!

Thanks for the suggestions, will there be kits for the SEOS-15 in the near future?
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

If you brand new to DIY my advise would be stick with one of the proven kits with an existing baffle and crossover design. Building a new design from scratch is not an easy task and it can be very time consuming as well as frustrating for a new builder. DIY sound group has a kit for almost any need - the tempest and sentinel are some of my favorites.

Probably splitting hairs, but for the increased cost, what would be the advantage of going with Sentinels vs. Tempests? Is it just a matter of power handling capability if I decide to add additional amps to the 4311 at a later date, or would the Sentinel sound better in a large room like mine?
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post #7 of 19 Old 05-15-2013, 06:20 AM
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the primary advantage of the 15" driver in this case is about 2-3db higher sensitivity.

i'm not sure off hand, but the 15" also probably has a lower crossover point, which probably sounds a smidgen better.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #8 of 19 Old 05-15-2013, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

the primary advantage of the 15" driver in this case is about 2-3db higher sensitivity.

i'm not sure off hand, but the 15" also probably has a lower crossover point, which probably sounds a smidgen better.

Agreed. Bigger power handling and slightly stronger upper midbass are the main advantages to moving to the Sentinel. The differences aren't huge, and they are both great designs. They both extend into the 20's in most rooms as well.
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post #9 of 19 Old 05-21-2013, 08:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the suggestions so far. I have decided to go with 3 Tempests for L/C/R and 2 Fusion 8s for surrounds. Seems to be the best bang for the buck for my needs. For subwoofers, I noticed the SI 18s are popular with a price of $175 vs. $232 for Daytons. This is a significant savings, however not sure when these will be available. Website says 4 months from Feb, so I assume its June. Any intel on this? Also, if I go with 4 SIs and power them with a CV5000, is it best to order the D2 and wire 2 in series for 4 ohm load, or order the D4 and wire in parallel for 2 ohm load per channel?

For a miniDSP I assume I need to order a 2X4? Should this be the balanced or unbalanced version? Also, I assume this is inserted between my Denon 4311 and the CV5000, so do I need the .9 Vrms or 2 Vrms setting? Additionally, using the 4311, will I need a cleanbox to boost the signal to usable levels for the CV5000?

Sorry to bombard everyone with all these questions, but just want to make sure I order the right components.

Thanks
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post #10 of 19 Old 05-21-2013, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockNtroll View Post

Thanks for all the suggestions so far. I have decided to go with 3 Tempests for L/C/R and 2 Fusion 8s for surrounds. Seems to be the best bang for the buck for my needs. For subwoofers, I noticed the SI 18s are popular with a price of $175 vs. $232 for Daytons. This is a significant savings, however not sure when these will be available. Website says 4 months from Feb, so I assume its June. Any intel on this? Also, if I go with 4 SIs and power them with a CV5000, is it best to order the D2 and wire 2 in series for 4 ohm load, or order the D4 and wire in parallel for 2 ohm load per channel?

For a miniDSP I assume I need to order a 2X4? Should this be the balanced or unbalanced version? Also, I assume this is inserted between my Denon 4311 and the CV5000, so do I need the .9 Vrms or 2 Vrms setting? Additionally, using the 4311, will I need a cleanbox to boost the signal to usable levels for the CV5000?

Sorry to bombard everyone with all these questions, but just want to make sure I order the right components.

Thanks


If you're going with 4 subs and using the CV5000, you will want a 4 ohm load per driver so that you can run in 2 ohm stereo or 4 ohm bridged for the most output out of that amp. For the SIs, this would be the D2 configuration. The daytons only come in a 4 ohm load. BTW the SI drivers are 170 plus shipping, which typically comes out to about 200 per driver. They should be back in stock sometime in June as far as I know.

For the minidsp - You will want the balanced version using the default jumper of 2V RMS. Note that this option will require you to make some of your own connectors for the phoenix block. You will also be providing your own 12V power supply. Another great choice is the new openDRC from minidsp which has built in XLR connectors in a nice looking box. It also includes a power supply and a remote/IR control for toggling to different settings. If I were buying again I would buy this version instead, although it is a bit more expensive.

http://www.minidsp.com/products/opendrc-series/opendrc-an
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post #11 of 19 Old 05-23-2013, 09:32 PM - Thread Starter
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FYI CV-5000 just ordered at a 15% discount Musician's Friend. Good through Memorial Day weekend. Now I can apply savings to miniDSP. Sweet
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post #12 of 19 Old 05-24-2013, 03:52 AM
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Gorilla- can you tell us a little bit more about that unit from MiniDsp? Is it still capable of doing everything that the MiniDsp can do, and more? It says that it does Stereo Room Correction, is this as good as something like XT32 or Ypo?
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post #13 of 19 Old 05-24-2013, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Gorilla- can you tell us a little bit more about that unit from MiniDsp? Is it still capable of doing everything that the MiniDsp can do, and more? It says that it does Stereo Room Correction, is this as good as something like XT32 or Ypo?

it does fir filters u would need some type of program to generate the filter or u could do it manually.
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post #14 of 19 Old 05-24-2013, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I like the fact the openDRC is plug and play with XLR Inputs/outputs. However not much info out there on this unit. Does it have the same capability as the balanced 2x4 to EQ 4 subs? It looks like there is only one plug-in available, so I assume its my only option? Also, does this interface with REW?
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post #15 of 19 Old 05-24-2013, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Gorilla- can you tell us a little bit more about that unit from MiniDsp? Is it still capable of doing everything that the MiniDsp can do, and more? It says that it does Stereo Room Correction, is this as good as something like XT32 or Ypo?

The new openDRC unit is a 2x2 unit which means it has 2 inputs and 2 outputs vs. the potential of 4 outputs in the original 2x4 balanced box. It does have some advanced filtering as cookie mentioned but this is not a plug and play type item like Audyssey XT32. Setting this up properly will require some means of measuring the room like REW or omnimic.

The bonuses as I mentioned above are that the box has built in XLR connectors and an included 12V power supply in a nice looking case.

If you're interested, here is the link to the manual which you can read to get a full understanding of all the functionality available:

http://www.minidsp.com/images/documents/OpenDRC-AN%20User%20Manual.pdf
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post #16 of 19 Old 05-25-2013, 05:28 AM
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So the openDRC is limited to 2 inputs and 2 outputs, which would be ok if you are only using 2 subs, but the openDRC can not be used for active setups and EQ'ing the front end of a theater, because it only has 2 in's and 2 out's, right?
Also, with regards to the MiniDsp, do you really have to find your own power supply? What are you guys doing for power supply? Is there a plug and play outboard solution to the power supply issue?
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post #17 of 19 Old 05-25-2013, 08:00 AM
 
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Quote:
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So the openDRC is limited to 2 inputs and 2 outputs, which would be ok if you are only using 2 subs, but the openDRC can not be used for active setups and EQ'ing the front end of a theater, because it only has 2 in's and 2 out's, right?
Also, with regards to the MiniDsp, do you really have to find your own power supply? What are you guys doing for power supply? Is there a plug and play outboard solution to the power supply issue?

I don't really see the value of going from the 2x4 to the 2x2 openDRC as it's nearly three times the price, and does less. Unless money is no object lol or you really need the advanced EQ.

I don't remember how much power the unbalanced 2x4 needs through usb, but I use something like http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=112&cp_id=10851&cs_id=1085102&p_id=10273&seq=1&format=2 and then just powered it with USB. The 2x4 balanced minidsp does need a 12V source so you can't power it with USB.
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post #18 of 19 Old 05-25-2013, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Just a newbie and speculating since i have not used any of the DSPs yet, but since 2 ea subs are run in parallel on two separate outputs for a total of 4 off the amp, and there are only 2 inputs going into a CV-5000 anyway, you only need 2 out of a DSP
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post #19 of 19 Old 05-25-2013, 09:01 AM
 
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double post
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