Amp suggestions please! I have eight 2 ohm voice coils to drive for sub duty @ 400w per VC - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 05-13-2013, 12:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I just bought 4 DA UM15-22 drivers (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-514) for LF duty in sealed enclosures. The boxes will be in the 4cf range per driver. The total rated power required to move these things to their full potential is 3200w. But being that these things are spec'd at 2 ohms x 2 vc's per sub I am having a hard time figuring what configuration to wire them at in order to mate properly with a powerful amp. Being that each driver can be configured to have a single 1 ohm or 4 ohm load or yet two 2 ohm loads, I still need to give them an honest 400w per vc.

I can get a total load of 4ohms a couple of different ways, but I'm not happy with the available selection of amps that can output the requested power into such loads, and redundancy would be nice.

I am thinking that an EP4K would work okay, but not be fully up to the task due to its actual output being less than what the subs can handle, or should be driven by. Because I am going with a sealed box design some EQ will be required to achieve a flat response down to the lower frequencies, which translates to needing more power from the amp.

I have an ART Clean Box PRO for upscaling the signal voltage in order for it to meld well with a pro-amp before going into the BFD and being outputed into the amps input.

What would be the most cost effective manner in which to provide power to these subs at high volumes for extended periods of time? The behringer inuke 12000 would fit my needs perfectly but is not available yet. Any other amp recommendations from you experienced guys?

Thanks for taking the time to read this.
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post #2 of 22 Old 05-13-2013, 12:43 AM
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Inuke NU3000DSP might be a good option.
Wire each sub for 4ohm's.
2 subs per channel @ 2ohms will give you 520watts RMS per sub. They could handle more power but you have 4.
Ive just ordered 4 of those Dayton's as well and will be using 4 Oaudio Bash 500 amps Ive had for a while to power them. So each one won't even get 500wattts.
Mine are only used in a 2500cu/ft sealed room.

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post #3 of 22 Old 05-16-2013, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabra View Post

Inuke NU3000DSP might be a good option.
Wire each sub for 4ohm's.
2 subs per channel @ 2ohms will give you 520watts RMS per sub. They could handle more power but you have 4.
Ive just ordered 4 of those Dayton's as well and will be using 4 Oaudio Bash 500 amps Ive had for a while to power them. So each one won't even get 500wattts.
Mine are only used in a 2500cu/ft sealed room.


That could be feasible if the amp can actually provide the suggested power. I'm not totally convinced that the inuke's can provide the power they claim, but I have yet to fully research them. That's a work in progress.

Thank You for your input as I value others time, knowledge and thoughts.
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post #4 of 22 Old 05-16-2013, 07:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I would prefer to have more amp than speaker though, so i may be looking into buying an amp that can provide good output to drive all 4 subs for now, while being able to add another of the same in the future for proper headroom.

Any other ideas?
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post #5 of 22 Old 05-16-2013, 12:03 PM
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Wire them in parallel-series mono 4-ohm, into a bridged CV-5000.
5000w / 8 = 625w per VC.


The other option which is what I run, but is far more risky on the DOA's, a 10kQ clone at quad 4-ohm.
8400w / 8 = 1050w per VC.
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post #6 of 22 Old 05-16-2013, 03:21 PM
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It seems you reach xmax(20hz) with about 500 watts per driver in a 4cu ft enclosure. I would get an Ep4000 and wire two drivers per channel for a 2ohm load. The Ep4000 can do 800w per channel in a 2ohm load

http://www.avsforum.com/t/855865/measuring-amplifiers/0_100#post_10755537

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post #7 of 22 Old 05-17-2013, 10:08 AM
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You could do a single 6000DSP which would give 550w RMS per sub @ dual 8-ohm.
That would give you another 150watts over a single Ep4000 and it wouldn't be struggling with a dual 2-ohm load; and has all the DSP boost/crossover stuff you need.
(and only weight 12lbs instead of 40lbs and is better than 55% efficient.)

Then if for any reason 550w RMS wasn't enough you could upgrade to two 6000DSP's, giving you 2200w RMS per sub, or alternatively powering another 4 15's as well. hehe biggrin.gif
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post #8 of 22 Old 05-18-2013, 04:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Wire them in parallel-series mono 4-ohm, into a bridged CV-5000.
5000w / 8 = 625w per VC.


The other option which is what I run, but is far more risky on the DOA's, a 10kQ clone at quad 4-ohm.
8400w / 8 = 1050w per VC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

You could do a single 6000DSP which would give 550w RMS per sub @ dual 8-ohm.
That would give you another 150watts over a single Ep4000 and it wouldn't be struggling with a dual 2-ohm load; and has all the DSP boost/crossover stuff you need.
(and only weight 12lbs instead of 40lbs and is better than 55% efficient.)

Then if for any reason 550w RMS wasn't enough you could upgrade to two 6000DSP's, giving you 2200w RMS per sub, or alternatively powering another 4 15's as well. hehe biggrin.gif


I have looked at the CV amps and they seam a little less of a value than the behringer ones. I think I am leaning towards the inuke's now. Thanks for the input. I have some reading to do.
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post #9 of 22 Old 05-18-2013, 04:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

It seems you reach xmax(20hz) with about 500 watts per driver in a 4cu ft enclosure. I would get an Ep4000 and wire two drivers per channel for a 2ohm load. The Ep4000 can do 800w per channel in a 2ohm load
http://www.avsforum.com/t/855865/measuring-amplifiers/0_100#post_10755537

I have been reading this thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/855865/measuring-amplifiers/900_100. The link you provided is awesome!! I'm going to be reading that today.
Why do you suggest running 2ohm stereo vs running 4 ohm bridged? Thanks again
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post #10 of 22 Old 05-18-2013, 05:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YourConfused View Post

I have been reading this thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/855865/measuring-amplifiers/900_100. The link you provided is awesome!! I'm going to be reading that today. Thanks again

Hahaha I didn't realize that those are the same threads when I clicked on your link at first. oops
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post #11 of 22 Old 05-20-2013, 02:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I just ran across this on HTS: http://www.hificritic.com/downloads/Class-D.pdf

I haven't read it yet, but it looks to be informative. One more thing to further populate my list of things to be read....
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post #12 of 22 Old 05-20-2013, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YourConfused View Post

I just ran across this on HTS: http://www.hificritic.com/downloads/Class-D.pdf

I haven't read it yet, but it looks to be informative. One more thing to further populate my list of things to be read....
Interesting read. I agree with much of it, but as he is talking about amps used for full range, not sub duty, some of the issues are less problematic. Poor HF response is obviously not an issue, but HF spectra radiated into other components and back into the mains, may affect the non sub area of some systems.
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post #13 of 22 Old 05-24-2013, 05:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Well Part Express is having some memorial day weekend sale that would make the EP4K $355 shipped, or the EPX4K $375. I'm going to buy something while the sale is going on, but I'm not sure which of those two would be better suited to my needs. For $20 more I get crossovers that I won't use and some RCA inputs that I may not be able to use due to low voltage signal (up to 1.0V) provided by the AVR's 7.2 outputs. Anyone have any thoughts on which would suit me better or be the better deal? My AVR is a Yamaha RX-V667 btw.
Thanks guys.
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post #14 of 22 Old 05-24-2013, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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I am referencing this as info regarding my Yamaha as being anemic voltage wise. http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=tech&action=display&thread=24105
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post #15 of 22 Old 06-02-2013, 10:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Found these yamaha P7000S amps on CL. What do you guys think?
http://austin.craigslist.org/ele/3772649453.html

A supposed 1100W x 2 into 4 ohms. The pair would mate perfectly with the 4 subs and provide some headroom while not torturing them on a regular basis.
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post #16 of 22 Old 06-03-2013, 12:49 AM
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The Yamaha P-S series amps are excellent, but they are not the cheapest $/W, though they are tough, reliable and very well designed and made. I have 2 P7000S and a P2500S as well as 10 or so older P series amps in use in my system. Most of these amps were in my PA before I retired from that sort of work and were given a much harder thrashing in that application than I think possible in home. I ended up with a fully Yamaha powered rig as I never broke one, but did other brands, and working on lots of amps, I knew what was reliable and what wasn't by what came through the workshop then from other customers.

Search for a deal and price match to get the best to minimise price difference between the cheapest W/$ if they interest you.
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post #17 of 22 Old 06-03-2013, 01:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 View Post

The Yamaha P-S series amps are excellent, but they are not the cheapest $/W, though they are tough, reliable and very well designed and made. I have 2 P7000S and a P2500S as well as 10 or so older P series amps in use in my system. Most of these amps were in my PA before I retired from that sort of work and were given a much harder thrashing in that application than I think possible in home. I ended up with a fully Yamaha powered rig as I never broke one, but did other brands, and working on lots of amps, I knew what was reliable and what wasn't by what came through the workshop then from other customers.

Search for a deal and price match to get the best to minimise price difference between the cheapest W/$ if they interest you.


"2 Yamaha P7000S Amp 4sale. 2000W Pro Audio Power Amp. Moving to 3rd floor and closing storage unit. Price for both amps together. Must sell... MSRP over $1000 new each..."

He is asking $450 for the pair as stated in the CL link. I did search and found these to look like a good deal which is why I proposed the question as to whether or not these were good amps for sub duty. $450 for the pair seems to be a good deal to me, though given that I have not dealt with Yamaha PA amps, I thought I may be wrong.

Are there any known downsides to these amps in regards to LF amplification? A google search yielded a bunch of ePHD's stating useless babble in regards to something that they don't own. That's how it goes with forum know-it-all's... Some guy heard from his friend that read a post about a guy, whose uncle use to work with.......... lol

Thanks for the thumbs up about the amps! I may go and get them this week, if they are still available that is.
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post #18 of 22 Old 06-03-2013, 04:07 AM
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Opinions from guys who have run P7000s (not just third hand info) FWIW...

http://forum.speakerplans.com/p7000-running-a-v181200_topic13940.html

These guys were dissatisfied with the P7000 for pro-type bass bins which don't go nearly as deep as the kind of HT subs you are looking at. I would stick to the Behringer/CV options for sub-bass duty.

My 2c
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post #19 of 22 Old 06-03-2013, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Avgass View Post

Opinions from guys who have run P7000s (not just third hand info) FWIW...

http://forum.speakerplans.com/p7000-running-a-v181200_topic13940.html

These guys were dissatisfied with the P7000 for pro-type bass bins which don't go nearly as deep as the kind of HT subs you are looking at. I would stick to the Behringer/CV options for sub-bass duty.

My 2c
Phil

I've never seen that site before. I don't think that google likes me anymore. rolleyes.gif
Thanks for the link. I shall steer clear.
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post #20 of 22 Old 06-03-2013, 07:47 PM
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YC, if I could get a pair in good condition for $450, I would snap them up in an instant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avgass View Post

Opinions from guys who have run P7000s (not just third hand info) FWIW...

http://forum.speakerplans.com/p7000-running-a-v181200_topic13940.html

These guys were dissatisfied with the P7000 for pro-type bass bins which don't go nearly as deep as the kind of HT subs you are looking at. I would stick to the Behringer/CV options for sub-bass duty.

My 2c
Phil
Lots of opinion and secondhand anecdotes, but no actual factual info there. I used my P7000S to drive pro bins using JBL2242 18" drivers with great sonics and no issues, in a PA. They have also been driving a variety of sub drivers in my HT, and will power my FTW21's.
Based upon long experience, I give zero credence to sound guys with no technical training. They are worse at regurgitating something heard as fact than even musicians.
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post #21 of 22 Old 06-04-2013, 07:04 PM
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I was aware of your opinion on these amps before I posted (not the first time you have come to the defence of these units) . The comments in the thread I linked are based on people's experience with the product and seem every bit as valid as your comments. I just thought the OP should be aware of all points of view before making an investment. More first hand experience if interested...

http://forum.speakerplans.com/yamaha-p7000s_topic21532.html

I think everyone's 'in use' experience should be considered until such time as someone actually measures/bench-tests one.
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post #22 of 22 Old 09-19-2013, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
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IMG_20130721_184402_927.jpg 1351k .jpg file

I took this while playing a song from Drop Kick Murphy's via pandora. Mic a foot away from the sub at full volume. seating position gave me 119db, slow C weighted. Not bad, and almost enough output but just a tad more volume and the speaker didn't like the abuse. I ran this volume for about 12 minutes without amp problems so I figured it was a decent enough test to prove that I got a good working amp.

I picked up a used EP4K for $250. Not the best deal ever, but not a bad price for the wattage it puts out. I put in a quieter fan, but its still annoying. I just used an old fan from a power supply so a slight improvement for free.
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