1 vs 2 EP4000 amps on 2x18's - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 08:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys.
First, let me start by saying that im extremely happy with the current subs and amp/power.
I have 2 x 18" mach 5 IXL subs in a ported enclosure running off a single EP4000 ( modified fan ) amp with a 4ohm stereo load.
Ive been running this setup for a bit over a year now, and since i like it i thought i would perhaps add another amp to give the subs full potential.

I have an empty space in my rack asking for an upgrade, and was wondering what benefit will i get if i was to buy another same amp and run each sub off one amp(maybe bridged?).
How much will i gain?
Like i said, im happy but since i want to fill the rack, have some spare cash and hungry for more bass, does anyone think its a bad idea? Unless im not going to get any benefit?


cheers
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post #2 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 08:31 AM
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You will gain headroom. IOW you will have a little more gas in the tank, your system will handle the dynamics a little better and your amps will be loafing most of the time...
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post #3 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 09:19 AM
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Funny you asked this now b/c I was about to post the same question about my single EP4000 and dual Dayton HO 18's.

Can someone confirm if when bridged the EP4000 load is still 4ohms? And any reason why I couldn't bridge it for use with one of my Daytons?

Secondly, from my understanding, bridging it will double the power which will provide an increase of 3db. Like the OP, I'm wondering if that small increase is worth the $300 cost of another amp. How perceptible is an increase of 3db to most people?

I managed to briefly light up the red clip light this past weekend for the first time while pushing it on the WOW pod scene which got me thinking about this.
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post #4 of 29 Old 05-20-2013, 09:32 AM
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In both of your cases a second ep4000 is a great idea. Yes when bridged it will be perfectly fine @ 4 ohms as long as your sub is 4 ohms. 2 x 2ohm subs in stereo also works fine on the ep4000's (which is the same power as bridging)

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post #5 of 29 Old 05-21-2013, 11:37 AM
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6db is a huge improvement, 3db is a noticeable improvement.
and the 18's could "probably" use the extra power.
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post #6 of 29 Old 05-21-2013, 01:12 PM
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My Dayton HO 18's are 4 ohm drivers. Can they handle 2 ohms? If so, any reason why I wouldn't want to run 2ohm on them or the EP4000?

How would I go about wiring 2ohms in stereo assuming my drivers can handle that?...Like one of these?...


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post #7 of 29 Old 05-21-2013, 01:21 PM
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The Dayton 18's have a single voice coil that is 4ohms. You can wire both drivers as shown here

 

 

but you will only be able to use one channel of the EP4000 which will only output about 800 watts at 2 ohms.

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post #8 of 29 Old 05-21-2013, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

The Dayton 18's have a single voice coil that is 4ohms. You can wire both drivers as shown here

but you will only be able to use one channel of the EP4000 which will only output about 800 watts at 2 ohms.


Thanks. I guess my best bet is one EP4000 bridged to each Dayton then. And if I understand, that would still be 4ohms to the driver? Behringer claims the EP4000 produces 2400 W RMS at 4ohm bridged; anyone know what it really does?
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post #9 of 29 Old 05-21-2013, 01:45 PM
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post #10 of 29 Old 05-21-2013, 01:52 PM
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"And if I understand, that would still be 4ohms to the driver?"

you have it backwards there. the "ohms" are a property of the driver(s) not the amp.

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post #11 of 29 Old 05-21-2013, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"And if I understand, that would still be 4ohms to the driver?"

you have it backwards there. the "ohms" are a property of the driver(s) not the amp.

Ah, OK....I definitely need to read up on wiring as this is all new to me but from the tiny bit I think I understand, the wiring method impacts the load impedance. And standard bridge mode on the EP4000 will allow the Dayton to operate at 4ohms since that's what the driver is? Whereas another form of wiring might not be compatible with the 4ohm Dayton? Or is that wrong?
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post #12 of 29 Old 05-21-2013, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

http://www.avsforum.com/t/855865/measuring-amplifiers/0_100#post_10755565
http://www.avsforum.com/t/855865/measuring-amplifiers/0_100#post_10755537

I believe 2 ohm stereo is the same as 4ohm bridged so you should be able to get at least 1600 watts.

Great, thanks. PE website shows the Dayton rated to 900W RMS. Should I assume there's no risk of damaging the driver by sending it more than that? I have them in Erich's 4cf flat packs.
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post #13 of 29 Old 05-21-2013, 04:30 PM
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The ep's put out 1900 watts @ 4 ohms bridged. 944 RMS (or very close to that, can't remember exactly) watts @ 2ohms per channel and are summed for 4 ohm bridged.
One bridged ep 4000 per dayton driver is double the power they are rated for. as long as they are i proper boxes for more power, you'll be fine. If not, you'll have to be careful and do a proper setup or you could nuke the daytons if you get happy with the volume lol.

All that being said, I ran my 2 x IXL 18's in 2 big ported boxes with a ep bridged per sub and it worked out awesome. Just be careful though. The IXL VC's can take a good amount more power that what Mark rated them for because of the car audio nuts that would put 2-3K to them and cooking them. He was being cautious with his power rating.

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post #14 of 29 Old 05-22-2013, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Mine are running 4ohm now as the subs are dual coils 2ohm connected in series.
So are you saying if i buy another ep4000 and have it bridged running each sub at 4ohm, it will crank out 1900w? is that RMS or peak?
Isnt that a bit too much for each sub?

I dont want to not be able to crank it up lol

Also, any new improvements in the modded fans? ive done mine a few years ago so wondering if there are better ones that have been tried out...quiter?

cheers
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post #15 of 29 Old 05-22-2013, 07:30 AM
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I checked the price on Amazon and the EP4000 was $300 yesterday; I paid $275 for mine earlier this year so figured I'd watch the price until it gets back there. Today it's $377.

One thing I've just thought about is I probably need to run a new electrical line if adding a second amp. I currently have my EP4000, AVR, and other AV components on the same circuit as my ceiling lights in the living room and bonus room so don't know that the circuit can handle another EP4000.
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post #16 of 29 Old 05-28-2013, 04:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, i bought another ep4000 and ordered some fans to mod, so just waiting on them.

So, do i bridge each of my subs to each ep4000? ( the two middle plugs where its says bridge mono?).
At the moment i have 2x subs connected to one Ep in stereo.
Subs are dual 2ohms voice coils and connected to run 4ohms each sub.

If i do it like that, what will that be running at, bridged 4ohms each?

Another question is, connecting to input.
ATM i have sub out from receiver and into INPUT 1 on the EP4000, with 2x EP4000, do i just use a Y splitter and connect each end to each INPUT 1 on each EP4000? will i have to change any of the dip switches going from my current setup to the new setup?

thanks smile.gif
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post #17 of 29 Old 05-28-2013, 05:35 AM
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Yes on the "Y" connector question.
Not sure what you mean by bridge each sub to each amp, you want to bridge the amps, not the subs. Get out the EP4000 manual and figure out the proper settings on the switches on the back, you want to bridge them and I can't remember exactly which switches are supposed to be flipped.
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post #18 of 29 Old 05-28-2013, 06:54 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAZMAN808 View Post

Ok, i bought another ep4000 and ordered some fans to mod, so just waiting on them.

So, do i bridge each of my subs to each ep4000? ( the two middle plugs where its says bridge mono?).
At the moment i have 2x subs connected to one Ep in stereo.
Subs are dual 2ohms voice coils and connected to run 4ohms each sub.

If i do it like that, what will that be running at, bridged 4ohms each?

Another question is, connecting to input.
ATM i have sub out from receiver and into INPUT 1 on the EP4000, with 2x EP4000, do i just use a Y splitter and connect each end to each INPUT 1 on each EP4000? will i have to change any of the dip switches going from my current setup to the new setup?

thanks smile.gif

Yes just use a Y splitter. You have to change the switches to make it bridge mode.

1 - Right
2 - Left
3 - Right

4 - Left
5 - Left

6 - Right
7 - Right

8 - Right
9 - Left
10 - Left

Also the gain 2 needs to be set to -infinity
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post #19 of 29 Old 05-28-2013, 07:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry, i mean do i connect each sub to the two red speaker terminals where it says bridged mono, see pic(the ones with blue arrows pointing to).


No worries, i'll see if i can figure out the manual in regards to the dipswitch, just thought someone might know off by hand the best setting.
cheers
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post #20 of 29 Old 05-28-2013, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you JWagstaff, that helps heaps, i'll also check the manual to see what that setting actually means, but sometimes i dont understand the audio lingo so prefer the forums input smile.gif
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post #21 of 29 Old 05-28-2013, 07:20 AM
 
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yep you connect it to those.
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post #22 of 29 Old 07-11-2013, 06:12 AM
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MAZMAN808, do you have both EP4000's up and running? If so, do you think going from 1 to 2 was worth the investment?
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post #23 of 29 Old 10-25-2013, 05:19 AM
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I'm wondering the same thing.

Initially I had planned on going with four SI HT 18" D2's for two dual opposed boxes, but my circumstances have changed. After some reading it appears my EP4000 running @ 4ohm x2 (SI HT 18" in 4.0 Sealed) may be a little underpowered for my needs? I have a decent sized (3,000 cubic feet IIRC) room. I'm primarily interested in boosting Ultra-low frequencies via a MiniDSP. Instead of buying 2 more boxes and 2 18" D2's drivers (they went up in price) just to drive it off 1 EP4000 (2ohm x2) seems like a giant step up in cost and would be pushing my limites aesthetically (stacking) boxes. I would however be gaining double the cone mass, stacking efficiency and additional watts.

My recent line of thinking is to keep it simple and add another EP4000 to go along with my current 18's. Obviously two EP4000 is overkill, it has benefits, but by how much? DB Wise?

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post #24 of 29 Old 10-25-2013, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAZMAN808 View Post

Mine are running 4ohm now as the subs are dual coils 2ohm connected in series.
So are you saying if i buy another ep4000 and have it bridged running each sub at 4ohm, it will crank out 1900w? is that RMS or peak?
There is no such thing as RMS power, but it is used colloquially to mean continuous. Ignore 'peak' power numbers; they are BS. And yes, 1900W based upon the tests linked earlier.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAZMAN808 View Post

Isnt that a bit too much for each sub?
Sub driver will be rated for a continuous power over some extended time frame, so putting 1900W into an 800W drivers for the relatively short time that it will be actually drawing 1900W should not damage it, providing you don't exceed Xmech. Do you have a filter to reduce excursion below tuning in your sub?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAZMAN808 View Post

Also, any new improvements in the modded fans? ive done mine a few years ago so wondering if there are better ones that have been tried out...quiter
All of the development work around quiet high flow fans is in the 12V sector for computers. Nexus are the best but Noctua and Scythe are not far behind. You could try running 2 12V in series.

PS; is your moniker because you own an 808?
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post #25 of 29 Old 10-25-2013, 06:13 AM
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Having just replaced the fan in my 2nd EP you are not gonna fit 2 fans in there, there is not enough room. the popular one from digikey is quite and works fine
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post #26 of 29 Old 10-25-2013, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

Having just replaced the fan in my 2nd EP you are not gonna fit 2 fans in there, there is not enough room. the popular one from digikey is quite and works fine

Curious, which Digikey fan did you get?

Thanks

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post #27 of 29 Old 10-25-2013, 12:46 PM
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post #28 of 29 Old 10-25-2013, 03:25 PM
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Thanks

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post #29 of 29 Old 10-25-2013, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

Having just replaced the fan in my 2nd EP you are not gonna fit 2 fans in there, there is not enough room.
sorry, I was thinking about my Quest amps which have 2 fans. I supply them form an external PS, left on full, as they are much quieter than stock and move as much air (Noctua 12V).
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