First build - Celestion SEOS towers + 2 18" sealed? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 21 Old 05-20-2013, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
whoiswes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Hi everybody,

I'm in the midst of finishing the basement in our house (from bare concrete and block walls to 100% insulated/finished with a new bathroom - lotsa work), and have been reading up on the various builds that are out there. I've got a 30x15x8 space that will be a combined HT/playroom/workout area. I have a few weeks of downtime due to a knee injury so the wifey suggested I get started on building my speakers/subs, which I had planned on starting later this summer.

Use will be 75% HT, 25% music. We have a 1 year old with another in the works, so foundation-shatteringly-loud is not a requirement, but I'd like clean, low bass. My current rig is some old Athena F2s (very bright) with a Panny XR55 (also bright) with a Dayton 12" powered sub (the el-cheapo bang-for-buck model). I do have a new Pioneer sc-1522 (thank you Costco) and a Behringer EP4000 for the subs.

For the subs, I initially was going to build a couple of Sonosubs, then got looking at lilmike's F20/lilwrecker, but I think due to space constrains I'm going to have to go with a couple of 18's, either the Dayton or SI's. It seems like a couple of sealed 18's is a popular build right now, so at this point I'm trying to decided ported versus sealed and which driver. I think I like the idea of sealed due to theoretically tighter bass and slightly smaller form factor but would appreciate any input.

For the mains, I'm pretty much decided on SEOS for the LCR (surrounds will be Energy Take Classics initiially), and am interested in the Celestion buyout kit. I did have a few questions:

1. Could I build these as towers, with a taller footprint (probably around 30" high) and build a divider in to tune the cabinet properly? Would it make sense to fill said cavity with sand for damping? Cabinet design and tuning is not something I'm not very familiar with.
2. bwaslo's build thread for these lists the DNA-360 driver, but Erich's parts page lists the DNA-350 - any benefit to going with the more expensive driver? I haven't looked at the crossover diagrams to determine whether there are any changes there, either.

I have most of the tools I should need for this build, and anything I'm missing I'll grab (can't have enough power tools!). I'm far from good at woodworking but I'm fairly handy, although if Erich did have a CNC baffle that would work for this I'd probably snap them up.

Again, this is my first speaker build, so I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions. Apologies if I've left out any critical information.

One other completely unrelated question - what is the purpose of a sand-filled stage? Is it just to provide a solid, decoupled base for your speakers/subs, or does it have other functions (outside of aesthetics). Sorry, I've always wondered this....

Thanks in advance for looking!

Wes
Roseville, MN
whoiswes is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 21 Old 05-20-2013, 12:01 PM
AVS Special Member
 
NicksHitachi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 3,561
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 69 Post(s)
Liked: 126
For your size room I would suggest ported enclosures if horns are too big for your aesthetic requirements. More output above tuning which is what you will need in a room that size.

Yes you can block off part of the enclosure(and fill with sand if you wish) as long as the front baffle width is the same it should be close. Changing any dimension of the baffle will affect the woofer response below baffle step but just making it taller should be negligible.

The 360 and 350 are interchangeable afa crossover but the 360 has a smoother response and is missing a pretty substantial notch up high which is not supposed to be audible. Its up to you whether that piece of mind is worth another $40 per pair.

Sand filled stages dont resonate. Solid base for speakers and doesn't contribute negatively to the acoustics of the space.

FWIW, If your serious about the buyout kit, you might jump on the woofers as they are buyouts and will sell out. Just ask folks who snoozed on the auras myself included. IDK how many of the celestions they have but I wouldn't wait if it were me.
NicksHitachi is online now  
post #3 of 21 Old 05-20-2013, 01:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Brad Horstkotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 5,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 57
>>1. Could I build these as towers, with a taller footprint (probably around 30" high) and build
>>a divider in to tune the cabinet properly?

Sure - or build the speaker as normal, and build a matching stand that it fits on so it looks like one piece from a few feet away (for flexibility, in case you don't want as tall a speaker later on).

>>Would it make sense to fill said cavity with sand for damping?

You could do that, but personally I'd probably just brace the heck out of that "dummy" space, and fill with insulation, to avoid making the speaker a lot heavier.

>>bwaslo's build thread for these lists the DNA-360 driver, but Erich's parts page lists
>>the DNA-350 - any benefit to going with the more expensive driver?

Not sure if any crossover changes would be required, bwaslo would be a better source for that - but yes, the 360 is a bit better than the 350.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1417596/differences-between-dna-360-dna-350

>>One other completely unrelated question - what is the purpose of a sand-filled stage? Is it just
>>to provide a solid, decoupled base for your speakers/subs, or does it have other functions
>> (outside of aesthetics). Sorry, I've always wondered this....

That's about it smile.gif
Brad Horstkotte is offline  
post #4 of 21 Old 05-20-2013, 03:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,280
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Liked: 497
I'm pretty sure Bwaslo used the 350 in this design. Either way, that was the intended compression driver to use.
Erich H is offline  
post #5 of 21 Old 05-20-2013, 04:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
brian6751's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 3,296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 102
My shopping cart would go to around 420 before I got the no inventory message. Get em while they last!!

Mine came in the mail today. It really is a very nice woofer.

Xbox One Gamertag = The Barbeerian

PS4 PSNID = The-Barbeerian
brian6751 is online now  
post #6 of 21 Old 05-21-2013, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
whoiswes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
So...I mocked up the Celestion SEOS speaker cabs in cardboard last night. I stood back and said "wow...those are huge". My wife looked over and asked what it was for - she was thinking it was for BOTH of the subs. I didn't get a very good reaction when I told her it was just one of the mains...and I'd be building at least 2, probably 3.

I think we'd both be happier with something more along the lines of the Fusion 10 (14W x 21T x 11D) - I know that's a substantial drop in woofer size but these will be running with subs so I'm not that concerned. I might just shelve the speaker project and focus on subs - I can certainly re-use my Athenas for a few months until I can make up my mind.

Thanks to everyone who's replied, I appreciate all of the feedback.
whoiswes is offline  
post #7 of 21 Old 05-21-2013, 07:18 AM
Senior Member
 
mobeer4don's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 445
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Keep the cardboard box for the celestion 15 design. You will need it to show the wife that the Fusion 10 (or whatever you pick) is actually quite small.
mobeer4don is offline  
post #8 of 21 Old 05-21-2013, 10:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bass addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: A padded room
Posts: 3,785
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 211
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Horstkotte View Post


>>One other completely unrelated question - what is the purpose of a sand-filled stage? Is it just
>>to provide a solid, decoupled base for your speakers/subs, or does it have other functions
>> (outside of aesthetics). Sorry, I've always wondered this....

That's about it smile.gif

That's pretty much it. smile.gif

Achievement Unlocked

Psychotic Episode Averted

bass addict is offline  
post #9 of 21 Old 05-21-2013, 05:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Sibuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Western NY
Posts: 1,940
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Liked: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoiswes View Post

So...I mocked up the Celestion SEOS speaker cabs in cardboard last night. I stood back and said "wow...those are huge". My wife looked over and asked what it was for - she was thinking it was for BOTH of the subs. I didn't get a very good reaction when I told her it was just one of the mains...and I'd be building at least 2, probably 3.

I think we'd both be happier with something more along the lines of the Fusion 10 (14W x 21T x 11D) - I know that's a substantial drop in woofer size but these will be running with subs so I'm not that concerned. I might just shelve the speaker project and focus on subs - I can certainly re-use my Athenas for a few months until I can make up my mind.

Thanks to everyone who's replied, I appreciate all of the feedback.

the fusion 10s and the Fusion 8 for that matter are both excellent speakers and will get the job done just fine for HT when run with subs. if space/size is a real concern look at the 10s and 8s. i have both and some 12s biggrin.gif
Sibuna is online now  
post #10 of 21 Old 05-21-2013, 05:49 PM
Newbie
 
Max Phan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
A pic of Big Daddy Erich next to a Zaph ZMV5
Max Phan is offline  
post #11 of 21 Old 05-21-2013, 06:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
brian6751's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 3,296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 102
Ranger IPA .....mmmmmmmmmmmmm some damn good beer in cans now.

Xbox One Gamertag = The Barbeerian

PS4 PSNID = The-Barbeerian
brian6751 is online now  
post #12 of 21 Old 05-21-2013, 08:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
audiovideoholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Murray KY
Posts: 2,372
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 74 Post(s)
Liked: 59
IPA in a can! Wow. I have been drinking a variety of IPAs for the past few years and have never seen any in a can around hear. I started trying random micros and have been hooked on IPAs every since my first 6 pack. Haven't used my kegerator in quite some time lol. I will still buy Sam Adams and its seasonal/variety cases but not like I used to before experiencing the sweet goodness of an IPA.
audiovideoholic is online now  
post #13 of 21 Old 05-22-2013, 04:07 PM
AVS Special Member
 
brian6751's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 3,296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 102
Ranger is excellent. There aren't too many micro brews in cans but they are starting to sprout up.

So who's going to be the first one to have a build using these buyout woofers? I have a pair but I'm not sure what I'm going to do with them yet.

Xbox One Gamertag = The Barbeerian

PS4 PSNID = The-Barbeerian
brian6751 is online now  
post #14 of 21 Old 05-22-2013, 06:51 PM
Newbie
 
Max Phan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
That is the buyout woofer with the DNA-360. All I can say is wow!


P.S. The Upslope IPA in cans is also pretty marvelous.
Max Phan is offline  
post #15 of 21 Old 05-25-2013, 10:02 AM
Newbie
 
Max Phan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Wow is a poor write-up, and these speakers deserve quite a few good words. So I'll post this here and on Erich's site.

I’ve only completed one speaker so far, so my listening impressions are based solely upon listening to music in mono on Big Daddy. If only a single word is afforded, the word “immense” immediately comes to mind. The stature, the soundstage and the effortless rendition of favorite tunes are all immense. Immensely pleasing.

This is my seventh build of OPSD (Other’s Professional Speaker Designs) and it is a new high water mark in my listening experience. I’m looking forward to building its sibling and listening in stereo.

If you have the room, consider these a personal luxury item.
Max Phan is offline  
post #16 of 21 Old 05-25-2013, 10:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
brian6751's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Canton, MI
Posts: 3,296
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 102
so you used the 360 instead of the 350 eh? not sure when i will be able to put mine together, but i expect them to sound great.

Xbox One Gamertag = The Barbeerian

PS4 PSNID = The-Barbeerian
brian6751 is online now  
post #17 of 21 Old 05-25-2013, 11:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,280
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Liked: 497
I'm glad to hear that someone else built these and is also impressed by their sound quality.

This design certainly wins on the cost/performance ratio. If you were even remotely considering a speaker like this, it's a no brainer, especially if you want big sound and low cost.

But there is no reason to use the 360 over the 350 for this.
Erich H is offline  
post #18 of 21 Old 05-25-2013, 03:40 PM
Senior Member
 
mhutchins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 444
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 55
If not for this build, then when would the DNA-360 be indicated? I've tried to find either subjective or objective reports comparing the DNA-350 to the DNA-360 but about all I can find is the description on Erich's site that lists a slightly broader frequency response for the DNA-360, eg. 50Hz lower and 1KHz higher. Power handling and sensitivity are the same and BWaslo's X-Over schematic lists these compression drivers ("CD") interchangeably.

The DIY Sound forum discussing this design does not consider the 350 vs. 360 question. As I compare the various speaker kits offered by Erich, it appears that at a kit cost of > ~$350, the DNA-360 becomes the go to CD. I'm pretty certain my hearing does not extend above 18Khz, so then the question in my mind is are there audible differences between the two drivers and whether the slightly lower frequency response of the DNA-360 would be beneficial in the crossover region. Unfortunately, neither the speaker description nor the forum discussion discloses the crossover frequency and I am not skilled enough to determine the crossover point based on the parts list.

The reason I'm asking is that I've got three of these Celestion buyout woofers on order for a L/C/R build for a 110", soon to be acoustically transparent, screen. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

Thanks,
Mike
mhutchins is offline  
post #19 of 21 Old 05-26-2013, 07:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,502
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Liked: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post

If not for this build, then when would the DNA-360 be indicated? I've tried to find either subjective or objective reports comparing the DNA-350 to the DNA-360 but about all I can find is the description on Erich's site that lists a slightly broader frequency response for the DNA-360, eg. 50Hz lower and 1KHz higher. Power handling and sensitivity are the same and BWaslo's X-Over schematic lists these compression drivers ("CD") interchangeably.

The DIY Sound forum discussing this design does not consider the 350 vs. 360 question. As I compare the various speaker kits offered by Erich, it appears that at a kit cost of > ~$350, the DNA-360 becomes the go to CD. I'm pretty certain my hearing does not extend above 18Khz, so then the question in my mind is are there audible differences between the two drivers and whether the slightly lower frequency response of the DNA-360 would be beneficial in the crossover region. Unfortunately, neither the speaker description nor the forum discussion discloses the crossover frequency and I am not skilled enough to determine the crossover point based on the parts list.

The reason I'm asking is that I've got three of these Celestion buyout woofers on order for a L/C/R build for a 110", soon to be acoustically transparent, screen. biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

Thanks,
Mike

I have a buddy in Alabama that has some of the Seos12/DNA360/TD12M speakers for his mains, and the Seos12/DNA350/TD10 for his surrounds. While I understand that in this situation it would be hard to make an apples to apples comparison,
my buddy says that the DNA360 just sounds more clear, refined, detailed, and has just overall better sound quality. Keep in mind that this is a purely subjective opinion, others may disagree. He did state that the differences between the DNA-350 and the
DNA-360 are not huge, but rather, very similar, that is, until you really sit down to do a serious listening session.
Martycool007 is offline  
post #20 of 21 Old 05-26-2013, 08:43 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 5,280
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Liked: 497
If you have a completely different speaker/woofer/size made for both CD's, then I'm sure you would be able to hear a difference between the designs. But that's not an apples to apples comparison. A fair comparison would be to take a speaker that uses a 350 and then drop in a 360 without changing anything. There will be no difference. The main differences are how low each can be crossed over.

Now a speaker designed with the 360 might sound different if you went with the 350 because it might have been designed with a lower crossover point.
Erich H is offline  
post #21 of 21 Old 05-27-2013, 08:38 PM
Senior Member
 
absolootbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SW OH
Posts: 469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Now a speaker designed with the 360 might sound different if you went with the 350 because it might have been designed with a lower crossover point.

Didn't Bill design these with the 360 though? The title of his thread on the diysg forum is "Celestion 15" buyout and SEOS12/DNA360". I kind of figured you'd be ok with the 350 if you wanted to, but the 360 is what they were meant to have. No?

absolootbs is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off