Dual LMS Ultra vented build - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 51 Old 05-30-2013, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Some guys on another forum mention that 1st port resonance needs to be at least 120hz at minimum, or double the LPF. So I'm back to the drawing board again. I'm beginning to wonder if these subs can be vented under 15hz.

I put the drivers together today to make sure everything is good after shipping, which it is. Thanks for taking care of these Luke, they are in great shape. I also dropped one into the enclosure made for my SDX15 to see what would have to be done if I wanted to use that enclosure for now and seal it. It sticks out a little as you can see in the pics. So I decided to hook it up and run some sound to it, and it actually sounded pretty awesome. Side by side, the Ultra sounded better ghetto rigged than the other one.



Big guy, little guy




I'd have to remove these ports and block the exits to use the Ultras sealed:
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post #32 of 51 Old 05-30-2013, 01:41 PM
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Sorry, there are a lot of reasons why the LMS really isn't the driver for doing a large ported build like this. You can either do PR's or seal it, but don't even try a port. BTW, double the LPF filter is still stretching it a bit for first port resonance, you may be able to get by with it, but I pretty much always went for a vent that is 34" or shorter.
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post #33 of 51 Old 05-30-2013, 08:53 PM
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"Sorry, there are a lot of reasons why the LMS really isn't the driver for doing a large ported build like this. You can either do PR's or seal it, but don't even try a port."

crazy talk. why wouldn't an lms work in a large ported enclosure?

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #34 of 51 Old 05-30-2013, 11:18 PM
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I thought TC actually recommend it in a vented enclosure as being "optimal", it just so happens that lots of people do it sealed

Go to the recommended enclosures:

http://tcsounds.com/product/drivers/lms-ultra-5400/

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post #35 of 51 Old 05-31-2013, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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It's DIY baby, it can be done - we just gotta figure out how. I am getting close with everyones help. TC Sounds recommendations are sketchy since the air speed is out of control with what they mention in the specs. Somebody modeled me a perfect one at 14hz, but way too big: 16 cubes before adding driver, vents, bracing.

I modeled one that might work, but cannot link the file for some reason...

13 cubes
15hz
130.3 1st port res
max air speed 24.5
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post #36 of 51 Old 05-31-2013, 11:14 AM
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if you haven't already considered it, a large flare on the port will help keep down audible chuffing.

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post #37 of 51 Old 05-31-2013, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I will kerf-cut to make some wide flares of at least 3". Here is a link to a good example:

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ2qKigBFwYt4nPW_y9sMXNyYYYRWhDMvftuCxltMKRGTqLKUT_HgNHYljSlw
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post #38 of 51 Old 05-31-2013, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_c View Post


I put the drivers together today to make sure everything is good after shipping, which it is. Thanks for taking care of these Luke, they are in great shape. I also dropped one into the enclosure made for my SDX15 to see what would have to be done if I wanted to use that enclosure for now and seal it. It sticks out a little as you can see in the pics. So I decided to hook it up and run some sound to it, and it actually sounded pretty awesome. Side by side, the Ultra sounded better ghetto rigged than the other one.

I'm glad they made it there safely!

The only thing I really had to clean on them was the nasty gasket tape I used on my sealed boxes. It basically turned into this brown sticky liquid type stuff that really made a mess. It took me quite a while to clean all that off the rubber ring on the basket!
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post #39 of 51 Old 06-03-2013, 02:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Luke, I thought that maybe you were eating handfulls of candy or something when you were loading them up! biggrin.gif

I am going to retro fit the drivers in the enclosures I have and seal up the ports for now while I finish up my bathroom remodel this summer. I'm pretty busy on the lake in the summer wakeboarding and destroying my liver, so my time is limited to be very productive until it gets cold. Besides, I need to hash out a final plan for the enclosures. I hate to rush into things, and I really want this to be perfect for these awesome drivers. (Also gives me time to maybe save for 2 more)
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post #40 of 51 Old 06-04-2013, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I have one driver fitted to my old enclosure. I cut the 4" ports out so the driver would fit, recut the baffle, patched some holes, primed, new coat of top coat, moved some of the trim over and reattached, plugged the port holes from the inside with an adjustable test-plug which gives an airtight seal. They sound better than what I had for sure. Much deeper, more SPL, and I see what you guys say about cleaner sounding - maybe more laid-back, if that makes any sense? Off to finish the 2nd one and touch up the stain on both. They are roughly 6 cu ft sealed right now with 1800w each.

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post #41 of 51 Old 06-04-2013, 04:03 PM
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post #42 of 51 Old 06-06-2013, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks man! I have watched a couple of movies and listened to a ton of music over the last two days. Using my available 1900w per, the WinISD models the Ultras fairly close to the SDX15s down to 15hz, where the SDX drops to nothing. What I hear is very different: the Ultras have like a turbo-boost after 30 or 40hz that is overwhelming as compared to the SDX15s in the vented box. The SDX15s are pretty smooth, but not nearly as loud in the mid-bass. I think I will like the Ultras more vented. Do you guys using sealed Ultras EQ 6-12db down from 30hz and up?

I wonder if the old subs ported out the sides helped smooth out response using the room gain?

I used these test plugs to plug the port holes. They completely seal it, which is pretty cool:


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post #43 of 51 Old 06-06-2013, 05:40 PM
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Looking good!

And no, I had the opposite problem you have because of my room acoustics. Above 40hz dropped like a rock, but below 40hz was some serious gain down to about 14hz.

Also, my sealed boxes were much smaller than yours. About 4cu.ft after bracing per driver.
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post #44 of 51 Old 06-06-2013, 07:30 PM
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Looks great man, im ready to come over to hear them smile.gif
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post #45 of 51 Old 06-06-2013, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post

Looking good!

And no, I had the opposite problem you have because of my room acoustics. Above 40hz dropped like a rock, but below 40hz was some serious gain down to about 14hz.

Also, my sealed boxes were much smaller than yours. About 4cu.ft after bracing per driver.

The acoustics blow in this room. I wish there was a cookie-cutter solution. I'm looking toward the mini dsp for help, or even the Onkyo 818, which has decent step eq. I need to update the old Nak anyways and this is as good of an excuse as any.
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Looks great man, im ready to come over to hear them smile.gif

Bring beer! Hurry up and design your boxes so we can build them, and then we can build mine, and then we can build another two for you. It's only a day of OT, right?
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post #46 of 51 Old 06-07-2013, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by d_c View Post

Do you guys using sealed Ultras EQ 6-12db down from 30hz and up?

Not I.
I boost up 20db from 20hz on down; and then I have other Pro bins boosting above 40hz as well.

What can I say, I like lots of bass redface.gif
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post #47 of 51 Old 06-12-2013, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I turned each cabinet 90 degrees so they are back-to-back and the result is great. There is no overwhelming upper end gain, they sound very smooth now. And holy smokes, they are rediculous at war volume.

I'm not sure how to position them for the ported cabs I'm planning, so I have an idea: build a temporary cabinet that I can take apart to change port direction from front to side, and the same with the driver. It will also give me a chance to check port noise before the final build. I have a calibrated umik on the way so I can finally do this right.
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post #48 of 51 Old 06-12-2013, 07:00 PM
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Yeah man!

Now just imagine doubling the power, and then doubling that entire setup! I think you understand the appeal of the LMSU's now.
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post #49 of 51 Old 06-12-2013, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post

Yeah man!
Now just imagine doubling the power, and then doubling that entire setup! I think you understand the appeal of the LMSU's now.

and then if you took that and doubled it again, and then took that and doubled it again. Only then you could say, with certainty, that you'd have (far) more displacement than me and NotNyt and a few other members, that is... until TheEar showed up tongue.gif
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post #50 of 51 Old 06-13-2013, 06:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Let me run that by my wife, I think she would be ok with that. You think 32 Ultras would be enough? Then the Ear would get 64. It would never end!
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post #51 of 51 Old 06-27-2013, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I was finally able to set up the MiniDSP 2x4 and CSL UMIK with REW and get it all working together, which was a piece of cake, BTW. Now I have to figure out how to make some measurements and drop the files back into the DSP. I'm setting the LPF on the 4-way XO plug-in to 120 and bypass on the HPF to start. I would like to get the subs to blend nicely over the next few months while I build the new enclosures. I will have an 818 sitting at the front door in 4-7 days too, so I have some serious learning curve ahead of me.
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