DIY Unusual Shape Subwoofer Question??? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 34 Old 05-24-2013, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I would like to built a DIY sub but I would like to use it with my spare Velodyne SC-1250 amp.
http://velodyne.com/product-accessories/amplifiers-1/sc-1250-1250w-amplifier.html



I have a very unusual size behind a row of seats, the DIY enclosure must fit within the height and the depth I have, but can be any length up to 7 foot.

Height max 15"
Depth max 6"

The wall behind the seats is 7' long so the sub enclosure could be as long as 7' if need be, or it could be two shorter ones.

Interest in your thoughts on this please and how to go about it?

Thanks in advance...
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post #2 of 34 Old 05-24-2013, 07:20 PM
 
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The angles and shape of the sub box do not impact the sound. All that matters is the inside volume and the port size. Also, I get a 404 error on that link not sure what is wrong with it. Do you have a driver in mind? It might be hard to fit a driver in a box that's only 6 inches deep. With a 1.5" baffle and a 0.75" back, that's only 3.75 inches of space inside.

Quick calculations show the max box volume is only 2.46 ft^3 which is inadequate for most drivers.

Also, does your 6 inch max account for the fact that the driver will extend out of the box as far as it's Xmax?
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post #3 of 34 Old 05-24-2013, 08:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

The angles and shape of the sub box do not impact the sound. All that matters is the inside volume and the port size. Also, I get a 404 error on that link not sure what is wrong with it. Do you have a driver in mind? It might be hard to fit a driver in a box that's only 6 inches deep. With a 1.5" baffle and a 0.75" back, that's only 3.75 inches of space inside.

Quick calculations show the max box volume is only 2.46 ft^3 which is inadequate for most drivers.

Also, does your 6 inch max account for the fact that the driver will extend out of the box as far as it's Xmax?

Ok I have fixed the link to the Velodyne amp now so you can see the specs.

After a bit of searching I believe a trapezoidal enclosure will be the best for me behind the four seats at the back wall. I have four 13.5" sealed subs up front and want to balance the sound in the back row. I don't have any floor space to place store bought ones up the back and the only available space that's sitting empty is behind the row of four seats. I've never done anything like this, but I'm quite handy as long as I'm directed by someone who knows this stuff....

I thought a sealed one would be easier to build, I don't want a boom box. The bass I currently have in the room is super, so I'm not searching actually for something amazing, more to work in with the four 13.5" sealed subs up front.

Height can be up the 15"
Top up to 7"
Bottom up to 10"
The length of the whole enclosure can go up to 7 feet (the length of the 4 seats)


SEE IMAGE
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post #4 of 34 Old 05-24-2013, 09:26 PM
 
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ah ok that is better. what's your budget for drivers? are the dimensions you gave tight, or is there a bit of room for the driver to stick out of the front of the subwoofer? is the amp bridgeable? can it handle 2 ohms? 4 ohms? i don't see any data on the website really other than it's 1250W with 2 channels. Is it 625 watts per channel then? at what impedance is that rating?
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post #5 of 34 Old 05-24-2013, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

ah ok that is better. what's your budget for drivers? are the dimensions you gave tight, or is there a bit of room for the driver to stick out of the front of the subwoofer? is the amp bridgeable? can it handle 2 ohms? 4 ohms? i don't see any data on the website really other than it's 1250W with 2 channels. Is it 625 watts per channel then? at what impedance is that rating?

Ive allowed a small amount of extra room so the enclosure wouldn't be up tight against the seats. I don't have a budget for the drivers, I want good though so will take any advice you can offer.
Here are the specs of the amp.
http://velodyne.com/pdf/subcontractor/sc-1250_amp_details.pdf

BTW
I also have the SMS-1 that is used in conjunction with the SC-1250, better room correction can be had with this unit. I also have Audyssey XT-32 on my Integra 80.3 to help.
http://velodyne.com/sms-1-digitalmanagement-system.html
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post #6 of 34 Old 05-24-2013, 10:26 PM
 
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Yeah I saw that pdf for the amp but it really doesn't say much other than 1250W RMS. It's pretty important to know what impedance it can drive

do you have a preference for vented or sealed?
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post #7 of 34 Old 05-24-2013, 10:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

Yeah I saw that pdf for the amp but it really doesn't say much other than 1250W RMS. It's pretty important to know what impedance it can drive

Gee I really cant find any info on the impedance. Ive searched all through the manual and I don't see it in there.
http://velodyne.com/pdf/subcontractor/sc-1250_amp_manual_revd.pdf

Why don't they tell you this info or how can we find out?

I have this good gear available and not being used, I really want to use it with the DIY subs.
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post #8 of 34 Old 05-24-2013, 10:56 PM
 
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maybe call or someone might have it online somewhere. I did a quick model of 4 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-466

600 bucks for the four drivers, I don't know how much you want to spend, here's the SPL graph. This is in a 3.651 ft^3 box which is about the size you can get.



can't go too low frequency with 12" drivers

this SPL is assuming the amp can do 1250W into 4 ohm bridged.
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post #9 of 34 Old 05-24-2013, 11:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Im happy with $600 if that's what it takes to make something good. I would have to import these as they are not available in NZ but that company does ship to NZ, what cost I don't know though.

I suppose we need to find out if My amp is right for the job first, I don't now how we do that unless someone else can tell us. Then a design that will work to the space I have.

Can I make this as a sealed enclosure?

Thanks for your help, at least I can see it looks like its doable, much appreciated....
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post #10 of 34 Old 05-24-2013, 11:50 PM
 
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Yeah you can make it sealed but it has much lower SPL below 50 hz then. Depends on what your goals are. Do you have any other subs or what are you using right now?

Yeah shipping to NZ might be a lot. I was just looking at your theater build, is this subwoofer going in that theater? Are you replacing the two velodyne 12" with these?
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post #11 of 34 Old 05-24-2013, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

Yeah you can make it sealed but it has much lower SPL below 50 hz then. Depends on what your goals are. Do you have any other subs or what are you using right now?

Yeah shipping to NZ might be a lot. I was just looking at your theater build, is this subwoofer going in that theater? Are you replacing the two velodyne 12" with these?

The two 12" Velodyne up front have been replaced with 4 SVS SB-13 Ultras which are all up front. That's why I now have the spare SC-1250 amp spare. I have HUGE bass the three rows shake all the way to the back row. I wanted to add some subs to the back to help balance the room.
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post #12 of 34 Old 05-25-2013, 12:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

The two 12" Velodyne up front have been replaced with 4 SVS SB-13 Ultras which are all up front. That's why I now have the spare SC-1250 amp spare. I have HUGE bass the three rows shake all the way to the back row. I wanted to add some subs to the back to help balance the room.

Oh that's good, is there a reason you want sealed over ported? It's actually quite easy to build a slotted port in if that's what you're worried about. Either way these will definitely help flatten your response if they get EQ'd right. It might be hard to get the right impedance though if your amp can't do 4 ohm bridged or 2 ohm stereo.



actually it's probably better to just go with 2 of the dayton subs and then you can wire them 4 ohm stereo and I'm pretty sure that amp could handle it. The 4 subs might be a little much for it anyways, and you don't need the extra SPL since you already have 4 good subs. The 2 subs will basically be the same as 4 but just slightly lower SPL, which you don't need anyways. Since they subs are all going to be right near each other the 4 wouldn't help balance the frequency more than just 2 would.
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post #13 of 34 Old 05-25-2013, 01:44 AM
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The SC-1250 can handle one 4ohm subwoofer or two 8 ohm subwoofers.
You could also use four 4 ohm subs, two on A terminals and two on B terminals.
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post #14 of 34 Old 05-25-2013, 02:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

Oh that's good, is there a reason you want sealed over ported? It's actually quite easy to build a slotted port in if that's what you're worried about. Either way these will definitely help flatten your response if they get EQ'd right. It might be hard to get the right impedance though if your amp can't do 4 ohm bridged or 2 ohm stereo.



actually it's probably better to just go with 2 of the dayton subs and then you can wire them 4 ohm stereo and I'm pretty sure that amp could handle it. The 4 subs might be a little much for it anyways, and you don't need the extra SPL since you already have 4 good subs. The 2 subs will basically be the same as 4 but just slightly lower SPL, which you don't need anyways. Since they subs are all going to be right near each other the 4 wouldn't help balance the frequency more than just 2 would.

I really only wanted sealed as I thought they would be easier to construct.

Looks like the amp might be ok as crabra states. So what do we do next, Im ready to go if I can get help please?rolleyes.gif
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post #15 of 34 Old 05-25-2013, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

I really only wanted sealed as I thought they would be easier to construct.

Looks like the amp might be ok as crabra states. So what do we do next, Im ready to go if I can get help please?rolleyes.gif

2 of THESE each in their own 1 cu/ft (28L) enclosure.
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post #16 of 34 Old 05-25-2013, 08:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by crabra View Post

The SC-1250 can handle one 4ohm subwoofer or two 8 ohm subwoofers.
You could also use four 4 ohm subs, two on A terminals and two on B terminals.

it would only handle one 4 ohm on one channel? Or can it be bridged? Because bridged 4 ohm is the same load as stereo 2 ohm, and if it can do that than it can definitely do stereo 4 ohm.
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post #17 of 34 Old 05-25-2013, 08:26 AM
 
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yeah the one crabra linked would be better for sealed, they go lower but are not as loud, but that's fine as you don't need them to be loud.
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post #18 of 34 Old 05-25-2013, 10:59 AM
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it would only handle one 4 ohm on one channel? Or can it be bridged? Because bridged 4 ohm is the same load as stereo 2 ohm, and if it can do that than it can definitely do stereo 4 ohm.

That amp is a single channel amp with two sets of binding posts. I think crabras idea of two 1ft³ enclosures are a good idea and would be easy to make and easy to kick in there.

If you used the HO DVCs, you could wire the voice coils in series and hook each one up to its own binding post which would let the amp see 4Ω.

A box that's 15x7x20 gives you 1.2ft³ which is probably? close to 1 cube internal. Easy build and since they will be hidden, I wouldn't even put a finish on them or recess the driver. Once you're up and running, see how much of that
amp you are using at playback volumes, and if there's any left, extend the roll off with an EQ. You may have an issue mixing sealed with the ported SVSs or it may be fine. I think getting some bass from the back of the room will
outweigh the problems on that end. Your amp has a phase switch that can help too.

OTOH that seven foot length you have would be perfect for a long port..... but the sealed would be a quarter of the work.

Two of these aren't going to rock your world, but with the SVSs up front, they should help fill out your response.
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That amp is a single channel amp with two sets of binding posts. I think crabras idea of two 1ft³ enclosures are a good idea and would be easy to make and easy to kick in there.

If you used the HO DVCs, you could wire the voice coils in series and hook each one up to its own binding post which would let the amp see 4Ω.

A box that's 15x7x20 gives you 1.2ft³ which is probably? close to 1 cube internal. Easy build and since they will be hidden, I wouldn't even put a finish on them or recess the driver. Once you're up and running, see how much of that
amp you are using at playback volumes, and if there's any left, extend the roll off with an EQ. You may have an issue mixing sealed with the ported SVSs or it may be fine. I think getting some bass from the back of the room will
outweigh the problems on that end. Your amp has a phase switch that can help too.

OTOH that seven foot length you have would be perfect for a long port..... but the sealed would be a quarter of the work.

Two of these aren't going to rock your world, but with the SVSs up front, they should help fill out your response.

Yep, agreed. I couldn't tell from the specs if the amp could be bridged they were pretty vague.
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post #20 of 34 Old 05-25-2013, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack View Post

That amp is a single channel amp with two sets of binding posts. I think crabras idea of two 1ft³ enclosures are a good idea and would be easy to make and easy to kick in there.

If you used the HO DVCs, you could wire the voice coils in series and hook each one up to its own binding post which would let the amp see 4Ω.

A box that's 15x7x20 gives you 1.2ft³ which is probably? close to 1 cube internal. Easy build and since they will be hidden, I wouldn't even put a finish on them or recess the driver. Once you're up and running, see how much of that
amp you are using at playback volumes, and if there's any left, extend the roll off with an EQ. You may have an issue mixing sealed with the ported SVSs or it may be fine. I think getting some bass from the back of the room will
outweigh the problems on that end. Your amp has a phase switch that can help too.

OTOH that seven foot length you have would be perfect for a long port..... but the sealed would be a quarter of the work.

Two of these aren't going to rock your world, but with the SVSs up front, they should help fill out your response.

The SVS up the front are sealed not ported.
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post #21 of 34 Old 05-25-2013, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Guys what I do have left over are the pair of Velodyne 12" SC IF/IC In-floor or Ceiling Subwoofers that are now deleted from the front. If these would slide in behind the seats it would be a dream come true, but the shape is wrong. It would really make good sense if I used the drivers from them for the new enclosures, then everything works nicely with the amp. What are your thoughts on this guys?

http://velodyne.com/subwoofers/subcontractor-series/sc-if-ic-in-floor-or-ceiling-subwoofer.html

As they used to be up front, I have two.
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post #22 of 34 Old 05-25-2013, 04:54 PM
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I vote for sealed... you're trying to balance the room (smooth response) not going for Max spl. Sealed will have lower extension and plenty of output at the levels required for the task.

Either use the two velodyne subs you have and build a new enclosure to hold then, or build a 7' long sealed box for four new subs. Bigger than the original velodyne box is probably fine as you will be adding eq anyway and presumably measuring, so you can avoid over excursion. You might be able to build the enclosure with cutouts for the two velodynes and try that first, and if not satisfied add two more cutouts for four new subs. Just a thought.

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post #23 of 34 Old 05-25-2013, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I vote for sealed... you're trying to balance the room (smooth response) not going for Max spl. Sealed will have lower extension and plenty of output at the levels required for the task.

Either use the two velodyne subs you have and build a new enclosure to hold then, or build a 7' long sealed box for four new subs. Bigger than the original velodyne box is probably fine as you will be adding eq anyway and presumably measuring, so you can avoid over excursion. You might be able to build the enclosure with cutouts for the two velodynes and try that first, and if not satisfied add two more cutouts for four new subs. Just a thought.

I would really like to use the two 12" Velodyne drivers since I already have them. Could make either one enclosure for the two drivers or make two enclosures. Just need some help with a design if someone who knows who can point me in the right direction.
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post #24 of 34 Old 05-25-2013, 05:20 PM
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I would really like to use the two 12" Velodyne drivers since I already have them. Could make either one enclosure for the two drivers or make two enclosures. Just need some help with a design if someone who knows who can point me in the right direction.

The Velodyne 12" SC IF/IC is sealed so just get the approximate volume of the enclosure and make one that fits.
Externally it looks to be about 54L so I would be aiming for something around that.
You have plenty of EQ to play with so the volume doesn't have to be spot on. The only concern would be a too large of an enclosure where over excursion of the driver would be a problem.
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post #25 of 34 Old 05-25-2013, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

I would really like to use the two 12" Velodyne drivers since I already have them. Could make either one enclosure for the two drivers or make two enclosures. Just need some help with a design if someone who knows who can point me in the right direction.

Take the driver out of one and see if they use stuffing and make sure there's nothing else in there, like any kind of circuit board, inline capacitor or any space taking "fill". I'm sure there isn't any but check. Then we can calculate the volume of those subs and
make new boxes with the same volume that fit where you want to put them. Not much of a design, more like a box.

You positive you cant squeeze those Velos back there? Maybe skooch that rear seat forward?
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post #26 of 34 Old 05-25-2013, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Take the driver out of one and see if they use stuffing and make sure there's nothing else in there, like any kind of circuit board, inline capacitor or any space taking "fill". I'm sure there isn't any but check. Then we can calculate the volume of those subs and
make new boxes with the same volume that fit where you want to put them. Not much of a design, more like a box.

You positive you cant squeeze those Velos back there? Maybe skooch that rear seat forward?

Believe me if I could just stuff them in behind the seats I would, I have tried. There is no room to move the row forward as there are two more rows on risers infront of the back row.

Anyway Ive moved the two Velodyne to the back row to test them out with the SVS up front. Im just in the middle of an EQ at the moment so I will report back. Ive done the auto EQ with the small mic for the SC-1250 first, then I did the auto EQ with the large mic on the SMS-1, Im just finishing off a full EQ XT-32 now.

Let me have a play with this and see what I think.

Next thing to do will be to open up the Velodyne and take some pix to show you guys. I hope I can make these work, it certainly will be a lot easier using what I already have.

Later.....



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post #27 of 34 Old 05-26-2013, 01:22 AM - Thread Starter
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WOW!

The bass in the room is now very different with the Velodynes in the back row!
The boom from the back row has gone, overall the bass within the room seems larger without feeling louder. Speech too has very much improved XT-32 must have changed things in some way as the dialog is very different. The bass over all three rows seems very similar now. Even sitting right next to the Velodynes you are not aware of them at all, nothing, its all very seem less. Walking round the room between rows all seems similar, very pleased.

There used to ne a large null in the centre row, this seems to have evened out now. The test has proven successful, I just need some help now to design the new enclosures.

I will open up the Velodynes next and post some images and sizes of the existing enclosure.
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post #28 of 34 Old 05-26-2013, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

WOW!

The bass in the room is now very different with the Velodynes in the back row!
The boom from the back row has gone, overall the bass within the room seems larger without feeling louder. Speech too has very much improved XT-32 must have changed things in some way as the dialog is very different. The bass over all three rows seems very similar now. Even sitting right next to the Velodynes you are not aware of them at all, nothing, its all very seem less. Walking round the room between rows all seems similar, very pleased.

There used to ne a large null in the centre row, this seems to have evened out now. The test has proven successful, I just need some help now to design the new enclosures.

I will open up the Velodynes next and post some images and sizes of the existing enclosure.

You will get plenty advise from this forum.
Use the box calculator HERE
Build a Trapezoidal box to fit behind those seats the same internal volume as the velodyne box. DONE.
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post #29 of 34 Old 05-28-2013, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabra View Post

You will get plenty advise from this forum.
Use the box calculator HERE
Build a Trapezoidal box to fit behind those seats the same internal volume as the velodyne box. DONE.

Guys I think I have a problem, I opened up the Velodyne box and it looks to me that the driver is too deep for me to fit it in the available space, it is 7" deep. I have included an image of it sitting between the wall and the seat, it will be too deep to fit a box around it I believe. I really need to buy something else that will work with the Velodyne amp. The driver is 8 ohms. I need something with a low profile don't I?

The MDF of the Velodyne box is 3/4" thick.
The internal dimensions are:
24 1/4" long (inside measurement)
12 1/2" high (inside measurement)
5 1/2" deep (inside measurement)

Thoughts please Im now stumped what to do.

Second image, back of seat and back wall.



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post #30 of 34 Old 05-29-2013, 12:05 AM
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http://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_i208_10-angled-subwoofer-enclosures.html

sounds like a 10" truck box would do; I mean for hitting the easy button it fits the bill. Like posted before you need a wedge/angled box and done.

box calc says your wanting .58 cuft

"I should really see what dB levels I'm pushing. Long as it can't foam my beer during a movie we are ok "
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Velodyne Sc1250 Subcontractor Series Subwoofer Amplifier
Gear in this thread - Sc1250 by PriceGrabber.com

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