Gonna get the Cerwin Vega cv-5000 but I have a few questions - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 40 Old 05-26-2013, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, i heard this amp is loud. Is there a fan mod to make it quiet?

Also, what type of circuit breaker is recomended for this amp to run properly?

Just as an FYI, I will be running 4 Ultimax 15" subs in 3 cubic ft boxes each. (Diygroup flat pack)

Any other info regarding the amp or recommendations are very welcome. Thanks!
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post #2 of 40 Old 05-26-2013, 06:02 PM
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It uses 24v fans. With that in mind- get two quiet 12v fans and run them in series off of a single fan header.
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post #3 of 40 Old 05-26-2013, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Lol. Sorry. I don't understand all that. I am new to this. What's a fan header exactly?
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post #4 of 40 Old 05-26-2013, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

Lol. Sorry. I don't understand all that. I am new to this. What's a fan header exactly?

A header is a type of connector on a circuit board that consists of conductive pins that stick out of the board, onto which a small female connector (in this case, a connector attached to the two wires of a fan) is pressed. Poster mal01 has taken a picture of the fan connection of the C-V amp in this thread. I wrote up some instructions for him to wire up the new fans in that thread, so check out the posts that go on for a couple of pages after that link for details.

I'd suggest getting DC fans (three-wire variety) rather than PWM fans (four wires) to simplify the wiring.
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post #5 of 40 Old 05-26-2013, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok. I will take a look at that. Thank you for the info.

What about the circuit breaker?
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post #6 of 40 Old 05-26-2013, 07:32 PM
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20A breaker with 12 gauge wire is whats best. It will work with a 15 amp breaker as well but 20A with 12 gauge wire is your best bet to not have any issues with it popping the breaker.

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post #7 of 40 Old 05-27-2013, 09:35 AM
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Although it certainly could happen, due to the manner in which breakers operate, tripping the breaker in an overload in normal use would likely be a rare occurrence. Breakers can allow huge amounts of current for brief periods of time.

In a big amplifier/sealed sub scenario, voltage drop could be a limiting factor when the system encounters it's limits, or operates right up to the limits. To alleviate any potential limiting via voltage drop, the circuit can be up-sized to #10 (instead of #12). I wouldn't go to the trouble of retro-fitting an existing circuit, however if one was in the process of wiring a high power sub feeding circuit, I'd not hesitate to upsize the circuit.

Sealed, high performance sub systems for HT, can really place huge demands on the entire chain. The circuits feeding the sub system are equally as important as every other potential choke-point, signal path roll offs, etc.

Good luck

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post #8 of 40 Old 05-27-2013, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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It would actually be a new line as it is a new house and unfinished basement. So a 20A breaker with 10 Gauge wire going to the outlet is the best bet? It would be 4 sealed Ultimax 15s.
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post #9 of 40 Old 05-27-2013, 09:43 AM
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Yes, and ideally the circuit needs to be dedicated to the amplifier (nothing else on that circuit).

Approx what is the distance between the panelboard and the receptacle?

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post #10 of 40 Old 05-27-2013, 09:52 AM - Thread Starter
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It would be a dedicated circuit for sure. When my wife and I bought the house, I got an upgraded breaker box, 200 amp vs the original 100 amp. I would be placing the amp near the breaker panel, so the plug would be installed there as well. Right now the basement is not finished, but when I do finish it, I will be closing off the area where the breaker panel is (as it is near the furnace as well) and I will most likely keep the amp in there as I heard it is a noisy amp. So it will pretty much always stay in the same general area.
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post #11 of 40 Old 05-29-2013, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Before I made this thread, I contacted Cerwin Vega to try and find out. They finally got back to me. This is exactly what they replied:

"A single 110-120 outlet with a circuit breaker rated at 50 amps should be able to handle a single Cerwin-Vega CV-5000 amplifier at full power. Power consumption is a function of the amount of work the amplifier is performing as volume increases.

Power outlets in the average residence use circuit breakers of 15 or 20 amps, and here a CV-500 driven to around 1/3 power could potentially trip a breaker. The CV-5000 is best used where the facility can accommodate the higher power demands, such as commercial buildings or installations that have a dedicated power distribution panel."

So they are saying 50 amps. Seriously?
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post #12 of 40 Old 05-29-2013, 09:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

Before I made this thread, I contacted Cerwin Vega to try and find out. They finally got back to me. This is exactly what they replied:

"A single 110-120 outlet with a circuit breaker rated at 50 amps should be able to handle a single Cerwin-Vega CV-5000 amplifier at full power. Power consumption is a function of the amount of work the amplifier is performing as volume increases.

Power outlets in the average residence use circuit breakers of 15 or 20 amps, and here a CV-500 driven to around 1/3 power could potentially trip a breaker. The CV-5000 is best used where the facility can accommodate the higher power demands, such as commercial buildings or installations that have a dedicated power distribution panel."

So they are saying 50 amps. Seriously?

All you have to do is

P=VI, 5000=120*I , I=5000/120 = 41.66 A
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post #13 of 40 Old 05-29-2013, 09:45 AM
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^ Yep. Ohm's law triangle makes it super easy to remember too. Make a triangle with the letter V (voltage) at the top and letters I (current) and R (resistance) at the bottom. Put your finger on V, IR remains. V=I*R. Put your finger on I, V over R. I=V/R, etc...
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post #14 of 40 Old 05-29-2013, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Isn't a 50 amp circuit alot? Does it even use the same plug? Sorry, I'm new to all this.
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post #15 of 40 Old 05-29-2013, 10:03 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

Isn't a 50 amp circuit alot? Does it even use the same plug? Sorry, I'm new to all this.

it's more expensive as you need to use 6 gauge wire. a 15 amp circuit only use 14 or 12 gauge depending on where you are. You might have to get a special outlet that will accept 6 gauge as it's very thick, but it's not a special "plug" and the cost is negligible compared to what the wire costs.
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post #16 of 40 Old 05-29-2013, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I just noticed that on the back of the amp, there is actually a 40A fuse built in. Can I match with 40 amps, or should I go a bit higher because it has its own fuse?
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post #17 of 40 Old 05-29-2013, 12:18 PM
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I just noticed that on the back of the amp, there is actually a 40A fuse built in. Can I match with 40 amps, or should I go a bit higher because it has its own fuse?

Future-proof yourself. Bass is never enough.....what if you decide to add 4 more subs a year down the lane? Get the higher amp breaker.

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post #18 of 40 Old 05-29-2013, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04rex View Post

Isn't a 50 amp circuit alot? Does it even use the same plug? Sorry, I'm new to all this.

Yeah, a 50a 120v circuit is a lot. You could feed it with a 50a circuit, but it doesn't need a 50amp circuit.


If I had one, and was pushing it encountering the occasional limit,.. I'd likely place it on a 20a, 120v circuit, with up-sized wiring (10awg for short runs, and 8awg for moderate runs, depending on distance) between the breaker and receptacle.


It plugs into a 20amp receptacle, so a 20 amp breaker is fine, ... however upsizing the wiring is important if you don't want any inhibiting voltage drop whatsoever. Be mindful a 20amp breaker can pass enormous amounts of current for short term needs.

For around a second or so, a breaker can easily pass up to 7x it's rated amount!
For a few brief seconds, it can still pass about 100amps!
The same breaker can allow about 2x it's rated amount for 20-30 seconds. 40amps, for 20-30 seconds ... that's a lot.

These are huge amounts, and easily enough for this amplifier in normal HT, or music playback. Test tones, all bets are off ... besides, nearly all amps can't produce their rated amount continuously.


With these power hungry, LT'd multiple sealed sub systems for HT, it's prudent to lower individual loads by either utilizing 240v amplification, or spreading the load over multiple amplifiers, on multiple circuits. Or, examine how an IB alignment can produce full excursion levels with very modest amounts of power.


My quad 18 IB, cleanly hits ~125dB@20hz@1m@225w per driver! Just sayin' cool.gif Low compression, no voltage drop, and best of all, ... no LRSE.

You don't need a 50amp breaker.

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post #19 of 40 Old 05-29-2013, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so 20 amps or maybe even 30 amps should suffice, provided the wiring is thick enough. As I mentioned the receptacle will be within a few feet of the breaker panel. So not a long run at all.
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post #20 of 40 Old 05-29-2013, 07:10 PM
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Im. Running mine on 20 amp breaker with 12 ga. Wire. No problems but I'd use 10 ga wire. In case u up grade later.I just had some 12 sitting around so I used it.
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post #21 of 40 Old 05-30-2013, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Perfect, thanks for the info guys.

Hey Dank, have you ever tripped the breaker? What are you running off of it?
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post #22 of 40 Old 05-30-2013, 08:50 AM
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Rex. No haven't tripped breakers yet. I'm running. 2 jtr captivators with a cv5000 bridged going to each one. Each amp on separate 20 amp circuit. After couple hours of hard use. The amps are still cold. The fan's are loud hope to do a fan mod some day.
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post #23 of 40 Old 05-30-2013, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Wicked, thanks for the Info.

They really are that loud eh? Are yours hidden somewhere or in a different room or anything?
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post #24 of 40 Old 05-30-2013, 09:30 AM
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The stock fans are pretty loud. I bought some what I thought were more quiet fans and modded my cv5000 but the fans were just as loud. :/

I might try hooking the fans in series or something.

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post #25 of 40 Old 05-30-2013, 05:08 PM
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Rex. No there in same room. I got 68 db 1' in front of both amps.(62 for 1 ). And 56 db at Lp. 15' away.
Scott.. I guy posted in Not's clone thread. About. Using zener diodes to bring the voltage down on the fans .he said works better then resistors.won't effect start up current. I'm going to try that first. 6v. Or 8v 5 watt zener . Ought work.
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post #26 of 40 Old 07-04-2013, 02:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Another question, i notice that the amp does not have a remote trigger. Leaving the amp on all the time, while everything else is off, is that ok? Does that use up a lot of power?

Thanks!
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post #27 of 40 Old 07-04-2013, 06:32 PM
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Personally I would turn the amp off when not used. You can also buy trigger outlets or you can make a trigger using a relay. That is what I do for my amp and it has never gave me a problem. Works like a charm every time.

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post #28 of 40 Old 07-05-2013, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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How do i get that info on how to do that or where do i buy it? What is the easiest route?
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post #29 of 40 Old 07-05-2013, 05:37 PM
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You can find triggered outlets by searching google, but I know that Niles makes them. They are probably more expensive than others but they are a good brand. That is the easiest way to go.

If you want to make the relay turn the amp on...
1. Buy a 12VDC relay and wire the trigger from your avr into the coil on the relay.
2. Run the AC voltage through the normally open contacts on the relay.

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post #30 of 40 Old 07-06-2013, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

You can find triggered outlets by searching google, but I know that Niles makes them. They are probably more expensive than others but they are a good brand. That is the easiest way to go.

If you want to make the relay turn the amp on...
1. Buy a 12VDC relay and wire the trigger from your avr into the coil on the relay.
2. Run the AC voltage through the normally open contacts on the relay.

I agree, it is easy to make a 20 amp 12vdc switched outlet using a Omron relay (with snubber) for around $30 or so.
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