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post #1 of 35 Old 06-01-2013, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a set of subs running bridged off of a behringer ep2000 amp. The subs are rated 700w rms total, the behringer is supposedly putting out 1000w.
I have the preout of my denon 3312 hooked up to the behringer via rca to xlr, and have tried rca to trs as well. The subs barely make a peep. even with the amp turned all the way up, the preout for the sub on the receiver turned all the way up... they are not doing much.

I have checked everything 10 times. not sure where to go. S

Some have said i need a direct box, others say they are running the same setup just fine without it.

At this point I am ready to sell the brand new amp i bought and start over.

Please help!
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post #2 of 35 Old 06-01-2013, 12:58 PM
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Do you have a DMM? That's the best way to be sure how many volts your receiver is putting out. Then you know if it's a voltage problem or not.

I'd also double check the dip switches and inputs on the back to make sure they are hooked up and set right.

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post #3 of 35 Old 06-01-2013, 01:43 PM - Thread Starter
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i have an analog volt meter... what would i set it to/ look at? I know its getting signal, and it outputs something. But the subs aren't doing very much. Anyway to tell if the subs are broken? I have no reason to think they are, just trying to narrow it down...
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post #4 of 35 Old 06-01-2013, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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the amp has to be broken. Its the only thing I can't rule out.
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post #5 of 35 Old 06-01-2013, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flexinator View Post

i have an analog volt meter... what would i set it to/ look at? I know its getting signal, and it outputs something. But the subs aren't doing very much. Anyway to tell if the subs are broken? I have no reason to think they are, just trying to narrow it down...

1) Unhook your speakers
2) Burn a 50hz (or so) 0 dbfs test tone
3) Set sub out at 0 initially. You can raise it to reach output if needed
3) Set receiver volume and 0 and play test tone through CD player

Sometimes it's easier to hack up an RCA cable for testing, but you can test right off the sub out connection, it's just a little more finicky.

4) Set DMM, or in your case AMM, to AC voltage (10 will be fine), and see what you've got.

The input sens. on the EP2000 is only 1.15 volts, so it doesn't take much to reach full output. The gain knobs are attenuators, so they can be adjusted to suit the conditions. If you have lower output voltage from your receiver, I'd start with the gains on the amp wide open.

If you know you are putting out more than 1.15 volts, then the output voltage isn't the issue and you can move on to other areas to check.

* How are the dip switches set? Are you using the bridged center posts for speaker output?

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post #6 of 35 Old 06-01-2013, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I've got it hooked up to the center posts, and the dips are correct. I am bringing the amp and subs to guitar center tomorrow to check out each. That will solve a lot if problems. Ill report back
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post #7 of 35 Old 06-01-2013, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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so i turned my amm to AC 10V. I measure the preamp output just playing the radio. I have 2 outputs so i hooked one up to a powered sub i have and checked the other. So i could hear it when it was hitting and could look at the volt meter. I could see the needle moving but barely to .1 when the base hit. interestingly or maybe not, when i put the meter on the front right speaker, it got up to about 1v. The output to the front speaker is a amplified out, so obviously it should be higher, but how to tell if the voltage at the preout is adequate. The measurement I got was nowhere near the 1.15V you mentioned. I think that I may need a direct box or something that will increase the signal. People keep telling me I'm crazy, but from what I'm measuring I'm not so sure. I'll find out more tomorrow when I take it over to guitar center, they'll be able to check each component separately.
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post #8 of 35 Old 06-01-2013, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.behringer.com/assets/EP2000_P0A38_M_EN.pdf input needed 1.2V
denon spec sheet - 3312 preamp output 200mV

I am actually kinda pissed I read that other people got this to work just fine. It seems that the actual stats are telling me that it wont work. So perhaps a Direct box is in my immediate future.
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post #9 of 35 Old 06-01-2013, 07:48 PM
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page 150 of the user manual states that input sensitivity is 200mv.

**output** is rated at 1.2v.

you just need to turn up the subwoofer output and make sure that your bass management settings are all set correctly.

http://www.audiogeneral.com/denon/avr3312ci_manual.pdf

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post #10 of 35 Old 06-01-2013, 08:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Well ****. Back to square one. I have checked and rechecked. There are 2 sub pre outs, one is hooked up to another powered sub, that is working fine, the other to the amp... With almost no output. I can't figure it out
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post #11 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

page 150 of the user manual states that input sensitivity is 200mv.

**output** is rated at 1.2v.

you just need to turn up the subwoofer output and make sure that your bass management settings are all set correctly.

http://www.audiogeneral.com/denon/avr3312ci_manual.pdf

I'm pretty sure the 1.2 is input sensitivity. That's how many volts it takes for the EP to produce rated power.
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Well ****. Back to square one. I have checked and rechecked. There are 2 sub pre outs, one is hooked up to another powered sub, that is working fine, the other to the amp... With almost no output. I can't figure it out

Well that might be your problem. You're not using the sub preout jack are you?

If you are using the right sub outs, make sure you are adjusting the correct one. My Onkyo has an option for single or dual subs, with each level being controlled independently. Make sure you aren't changing the one to the powered sub instead of the other one. smile.gif

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post #12 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 02:13 AM
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If you haven't already, check the settings on the back of the Behringer. If you are running one line-in, make sure that the crossover is set to "full range" and the mode is set to "mono," even if you are running two subs (one off each channel)

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post #13 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
I am actually kinda pissed I read that other people got this to work just fine. It seems that the actual stats are telling me that it wont work. So perhaps a Direct box is in my immediate future.

You don't need bump box to boost the signal. Denon 3312, if I'm not wrong, puts out 2V at 00 on master volume and is more than capable to push ep2k into clipping. Initially I, lilke so many other people on this forum, thought I required the bump box. But I was so wrong. And I still feel stupid to pick up a pointless debate.

Anyway, there must be something wrong in your hook up. I am pushing my iNuke 6000 DSP into clipping with -10 on the sub trim level on Denon 3313 with the gates wide open to the max on the iNuke......scary bass I must say.

Anyway, you sort out what the problem is in the hookup. Then we can delve into setting up the gain structure properly and let you have a blast with your system.......

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post #14 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 04:32 AM
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Have you checked if the rca cable is good?
I only ask as i bought a brand new cable and was scratching my head trying to figure out what was wrong, until i thought i'd try an old cable i had and it worked.
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post #15 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 05:59 AM
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"I'm pretty sure the 1.2 is input sensitivity."

i was referencing his receiver.

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post #16 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 11:44 AM
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What speakers are you using (mains)? If they have a high sensitivity spec, like Klipsch for instance, then it’s likely you’re never pushing the Denon’s volume high enough to get the 1.2 volts the Behringer needs.

BTW, if it turns out you do need “outboard help,” it wouldn’t be a direct box. That only converts unbalanced signals to balanced – has nothing to do with signal strength. You’d be needing a signal booster.

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post #17 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I took everything over to a guitar center where I independently tested each component (except my receiver). I definitely got more bump out of my sub box over there, but it was not overwhelming. I am thinking perhaps my subs are just not up to the challenge.

So options...

1) sell the amp. Anyone interested? I may place a classified or just craigs list. I doubt I can return it as its 2 months old, but never really even used.

2) Buy a new sub(s) made for home audio.

Not sure where to go. For my brand new amp I paid $300 I'd probably let it go for $250... but I think there's a chance I can get the store I bought it from to take it back...
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post #18 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 12:05 PM
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What impedance are your subs wired for?

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post #19 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 12:10 PM
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Check the dip switch settings. The EP amps have a history of the labels being wrong.

Also if its an input signal issue, the amp has yellow LEDs on the front that blink with incoming signal. Play a high LFE level scene and check if these lights are responding well. Red light indicates clipping.

Lastly, use you're meter to verify load at the driver(s) resistance load at the amp. Should be close enough to the resistance you're expecting.

I have 2 EP1500s, basically the exact same amp as yours just a year older, that are powering a quad IB set of 18s in my theater. I have one 4-ohm driver per amp channel. It drives them to levels I have no desire to listen at. You should be seeing plenty of action on your subs.

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post #20 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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The subs are in series, 4 ohms a piece so 8 ohms total. I get yellow signal lights on the amp but no red.
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post #21 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 01:06 PM
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Can’t help but wonder if you’ve wired the two drivers out of phase?

Aside from that, bridged mono to series wiring – what for? The amp is putting out 1000 watts bridged @ 8 ohms. Wiring in series means the power is divided out between the two drivers – 500 watts to each. Look at the stereo rating – 500 watts @ 4 ohms.

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post #22 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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i checked the wiring of the subs. even did the 9v battery test. they move in the same direction. they move easily. The subs are only rated at 350rms each. So 1000w in series I thought would be fine. do you think its worth my while to separate them to run in 2 channel mode. I dont see how that will help.
Is there some setting on my receiver I'm missing. I ran through the auto setup, its got the correct speakers listed, lfe to sub turned on. sub level on the levels all the way up. What else to do?
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post #23 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 01:35 PM
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When you run Audyssey, what level does it set the subs too?

 

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so i turned my amm to AC 10V. I measure the preamp output just playing the radio.

You need to play a 60hz sine wave to measure the voltage of the LFE output. Make sure to disconnect all speakers when you do this to protect them.

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post #24 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Heres an oddity. If i put my analog volt meter on the subs and check the resistance, it tells me its essentially zero. I'm not sure its calibrated, but then again it doesn't show me a different number on other working speakers. I just pulled apart my sub box and ran the wires directly to each sub with almost no ouput to either.
If i check the ac volt output from the amp, its about double i get from the powered lines to the main channels from my receiver. That doesn't seem like a lot, but voltage probably scales. I am sure the preamp output it fine. I've checked everything. I still can't be 100% sure the amp is working correctly. The subs are not hitting their potential, but aren't suited for what i'm trying to use them for anyway.

Audyssey set the sub to -4.5, which i thought was odd, because i could barely hear the sub when it was checking it.
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post #25 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 02:06 PM
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What kind of subs are you using and do you have a SPL meter?

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post #26 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Infinity perfect 10.1s they are old car subs.
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post #27 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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No spl meter
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post #28 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flexinator View Post

The subs are in series, 4 ohms a piece so 8 ohms total. I get yellow signal lights on the amp but no red.

You should just run them 4-ohm stereo. 8-ohm bridged isn't gaining you any power and is introducing bridged characteristics needlessly. The amp at that level is 1000W peak. Not continuous. Your going to be closer to 700-750w

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post #29 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 03:04 PM
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Hard to say what the problem is exactly. You say there is almost no output but audyssey set the sub level to -4.5. Maybe you're expecting SPL levels compared to what you would get in a car?
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post #30 of 35 Old 06-02-2013, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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No. I tried setting up one channel to one sub. And sat next to it sitting on the floor out of the box. The driver was barely moving. When these were in my car you wouldn't want to put your hand on them they were hitting so much.
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