2 pi surround speaker project - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 47 Old 06-18-2013, 07:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I haven't tried them except as surrounds so far. I'll try a pair in my living room setup to see how they stack up against my B&W CM1's.

They are a tremendous value. There are so many great DIY speakers out there to choose from.

High Desert Theater - work in progress
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post #32 of 47 Old 06-18-2013, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post

I haven't tried them except as surrounds so far. I'll try a pair in my living room setup to see how they stack up against my B&W CM1's.

They are a tremendous value. There are so many great DIY speakers out there to choose from.


When I built my 1pi. I set it up as a 2 channel to test out, send a direct signal to it and I was amazed.

I can't believe the mid bass coming out of these things. Sound stage is huge. They're very nice.
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post #33 of 47 Old 06-18-2013, 10:18 AM
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Nice system, Pete, especially for the money. I kinda thought the B&W center was maybe compressing a little bit on some of the content. Vocals didn't seem quite right in some of the high volume situations. Did you get that at all? Maybe it's something to do with the un-EQ'd response. Maybe it's just me.

I figured the thread could use another pic of the finished product up close.



I really like the texture that the Duratex took on these. It's sorta like the "faux leather look" that the Duratex instructions talk about, but you didn't do it on purpose. They look sharp! I also think you should demo them by themselves just to get an idea of how they sound.
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post #34 of 47 Old 06-18-2013, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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The B&W 804's and HTM-1 struggle with movie soundtrack dynamics. I listened to a clean acoustic recording later - the B&W's handled that much better.

Time to think about building those cornerhorns.

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post #35 of 47 Old 06-19-2013, 05:15 AM
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I have been curious about the sound musically and theatrically. If run in a ht setup would you just run another as a center? (2 pi)
Very nice craftsmanship btw on your 2pi's.
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post #36 of 47 Old 06-19-2013, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I did some pretty extensive two channel listening to one pair last night in my living room (not the theater). At first listen, the highs were a bit harsh and mid bass seemed "thick". Once I backed away from the speakers - further than my normal listening position - they sounded much more balanced and smooth. Normal couch to TV distance is about 7'. They sounded much better at 10' or more. My little B&W stand mount speakers work well nearfield, but I think the 2pi needs more room and distance to get into the sweet spot. My living room is irregular, hard and reflective. Room treatments would do wonders for the two Pi's.

I think five of the two pi's would make a great home theater on a budget. They have good dynamics that you need for HT. Musical performance is good. Like any speaker, placement and room treatments will contribute a lot.

I'll let Nube give them a listen in the living room and hear his opinion. I'll try some two channel listening in my theater too, since it's a much better space, acoustically, than the living room.

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post #37 of 47 Old 06-19-2013, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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B&W CM-2
Jack of All Trades
2pi



Listening impressions...

B&W CM-2 (ported, 6" kevlar woofer, metal dome tweeter)
  • Exceptional bass performance
  • Highs much more laid back than either of the others
  • Mid somewhat subdued

Jack of All Trades (sealed, 8" paper woofer, compression tweeter and waveguide)
  • Articulate midrange
  • Lacking bass and efficiency
  • Highs somewhere between the B&W's and Pi's - clean and articulate

2pi (ported, 10" paper woofer, silk dome tweeter)
  • Bass still seems a bit "thick". B&W bass has more clarity and digs deeper
  • Bright on the high end, but not annoying at least in short listening sessions. Solid midrange
  • Efficient - plays loud and clean

Test conditions:
  • mid range ~2006 model Denon AV reciever
  • no sub
  • Sonos music system source, high bitrate WMA files
  • Hard room, asymmetrical layout, no treatments except for the soft dog bass trap


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post #38 of 47 Old 06-19-2013, 05:39 PM
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From my phone, so I'll be brief.

The B&W are pretty good for their size, but they seem to overemphasize the low frequencies and the mids really disappear. Highs are also less pronounced. Efficiency seems about the same as the Jack of All Trades.

The Jack of All Trades are the only sealed cabs in the group and their sensitivity on the low stuff suffers accordingly. IIRC their -3dB point is somewhere in the high 80s. Their overall sensitivity is significantly lower than the 2Pi, about the same as the B&W. But the JOATs have better voicing and overall response. I'm actually surprised they can put out as much bass as they do, given the size.

The 2Pi are the most efficient of the group, which they should be given their size. They have good punch down low, tho not quite as much as the B&WS. Great imaging when you get farther back from them, but the highs are a little distressing. Just a little bright, but not bad. Overall, these are the pick of the littler if you can accommodate their size. Great value!
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post #39 of 47 Old 06-19-2013, 08:48 PM
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I didn't even realize the 2Pi was a 10". Impressive dome that is to keep up.

Nice comparison guys. I wonder how your impressions would be steered with a subwoofer system. Do you think the JOAT should have used a more effecient 8" and gave up some bass? I tried to strike the 80hz sealed F3 with as much effeciency as possible.

Excellent feedback, thanks guys!
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post #40 of 47 Old 06-19-2013, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

Nice system, Pete, especially for the money. I kinda thought the B&W center was maybe compressing a little bit on some of the content. Vocals didn't seem quite right in some of the high volume situations. Did you get that at all? Maybe it's something to do with the un-EQ'd response. Maybe it's just me.

I figured the thread could use another pic of the finished product up close.



I really like the texture that the Duratex took on these. It's sorta like the "faux leather look" that the Duratex instructions talk about, but you didn't do it on purpose. They look sharp! I also think you should demo them by themselves just to get an idea of how they sound.

What applicator did you use to apply the Duratex?
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post #41 of 47 Old 06-19-2013, 09:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Tux, the next round of testing will be in my half built theater with a proper subwoofer system. We'll be comparing the JOAT, 2pi and B&W Nautilus 804's in stereo, all with subs. Parham recommends crossing the 2pi at 60Hz. That's about right for the 804's too. Probably should cross higher for the JOAT.

It'll be a bit of a hassle to set levels when switching mains since the sensitivity is so different between the three speakers. Nothing we can't overcome though! I wish we had more ears to share their opinions. Anyone else in Albuquerque? Anyone??

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post #42 of 47 Old 06-19-2013, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

What applicator did you use to apply the Duratex?

4" wide by 3/8" nap roller from Home Depot. It was their house brand in the "best" bin. I rolled the duratex on thick then just worked it a few times to smooth out the uneven coverage.

Duratex is great stuff. I didn't put any effort at all into the finish and it came out decent. I've got a few thick spots and blobs but they're not too visible.

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post #43 of 47 Old 06-19-2013, 09:45 PM
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Thank you Pete. Keeping all this stuff in mind for when I get to that point.
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post #44 of 47 Old 06-20-2013, 04:22 AM
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I am looking forward to hearing your listening impressions in the main theater setup with subs! I wonder how the 4pi would stack up against the B&W Natulas 804 and HTM1?
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post #45 of 47 Old 06-20-2013, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Do you think the JOAT should have used a more effecient 8" and gave up some bass? I tried to strike the 80hz sealed F3 with as much effeciency as possible.

Excellent feedback, thanks guys!

Upon further review, and given our completely unscientific ear test, I'm gonna change my tune a little. The JOAT's efficiency seems squarely in between the B&Ws and the 2π. It may have something to do with the FR of each speaker, but the B&W just seem to really lose the mids & highs in favor of pounding bass. I think this is a compromise that a lot of little bookshelves make. Granted, they are 1/3 or 1/4 the volume of the 2π.

The JOAT is a fine little speaker, and I'm plenty happy with them for the size & money. I don't have a dedicated theater, so they fit quite well in my living room as surrounds. I don't think you should change a thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petew View Post

It'll be a bit of a hassle to set levels when switching mains since the sensitivity is so different between the three speakers. Nothing we can't overcome though! I wish we had more ears to share their opinions. Anyone else in Albuquerque? Anyone??

I'm sure we'll be able to level match them, but the room dominates so it won't be anything super scientific. I may want to write some notes, though, to try and keep track. wink.gif There are a couple of ABQ audiophiles on here who have PM'd me, but they're in that $20,000 preamp club that we talked about last night, and I've never met them...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I am looking forward to hearing your listening impressions in the main theater setup with subs! I wonder how the 4pi would stack up against the B&W Natulas 804 and HTM1?

The B&W 804s are nice looking, and it's been my experience that they really shine on music. They are less composed at high volume when reproducing the dynamic content of movies. I have no doubt that Pete's upcoming 7π will (should) exceed them on movies, but I'm also curious to see how they'll compare for music.
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post #46 of 47 Old 06-20-2013, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nube View Post

There are a couple of ABQ audiophiles on here who have PM'd me, but they're in that $20,000 preamp club that we talked about last night, and I've never met them...

I'd have to hide my $400 Outlaw 990 second hand preamp

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post #47 of 47 Old 07-14-2013, 09:17 PM
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Thanks for the comparisons! I stumbled across the JOAT thread earlier while trying to compile a list of setups. When I saw the build thread on here was done by Pete, I got all excited (lame, I know) for a comparison. You guys beat me to it though!

Now, I have another debate I have to tackle. I was just about to pull the trigger on the Karma 8's (was gonna send Erich an email with a question). Now that I've found this thread I have to choose: 2 x Karma 8s or the 2 x 2 pi's...

Maybe I'l do both. Do the Karma 8's now, then the 2 pi's in the fall. Whichever I like better, I'll keep and give the other set to my brother...
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