The Great Waveguide Shootout!!! - AVS Forum
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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The measurements have started! See next post for index.


This will be a purely objective look at how the waveguides perform, Frequency Response, SPL, Off Axis Polar Response and Distortion. Due to the amount of waveguides and measurements needed it would likely be all but impossible to take all of them in one day so care will be taken to make sure the testing setup is properly configured (distances, angles, drive levels) each time.

Waveguides to be included in testing
SEOS-6, 8, 10, 12, 15,18 and 24
H290c,
QSC,
Dayton H512,
EOS-10, EOS-9?, EOS-8, EOS-6,
Denovo DW-854B, DW-774s, DW-62s, DW-654s, DW-7ES
And a few others.



Threaded waveguides will be tested with the DNA-150 along with some of the other small ones. Then most of the small and mid sized waveguides will be measured with the DNA-205 (comparable to the B&C DE10). Finally many of the mid and larger 1" waveguide will be testing using the DNA-360 (comparable to the B&C DE250). The SEOS-24 will be tested using the BMS 4594 1.4" coax.

The measurements will be done using REW (I am most familiar and comfortable with it and find it does everything I want it to) Microphone will be the Dayton UMM-6, amp will be a Audio source AMP-100, drive level will be set using a 60hz sine wave.

Baffle setup:




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Old 06-03-2013, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Index of measurements.


Using the DNA-150 CD:
DW-62S,
DW-774S,
Smaller round unnamed waveguide,
DW-654S,
DW-7ES,
EOS-6,


Using the DNA-205 (comparable to DE10):
Measurements to come soon.


Using the DNA-360 (comparable to DE250):
Measurements to come soon.
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Old 06-03-2013, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Reserved
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:47 PM
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Awesome! You mentioned this as an idea before and I'm really glad you're making it happen!
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:53 PM
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Nice, should prove to be valuable to the diy community.

Current Gear: PJ – BenQ PE7700; Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR805; Blu Ray - OppoBDP 103; Turntable - Dual CS-515 w/ Ortofon Super OM10; Amplifiers - OdysseyKhartago, Adcom GFA555, QSC RMX 1850HD; PEQ - Behringer FBD2496 [Near FieldSub], miniDSP 2×4 [Flanking Subs], REW; Speakers - 4 Pi (w/B&C DE250/JBL2226H) × 3 [LCR], Yamaha Crap × 2 [surrounds], Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X18" sealed sub [near field sub], LAB-12 based ported sub tuned to 22 Hz x2 [flanking subs, XO set at 40 Hz]
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Old 06-03-2013, 10:24 PM
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This sounds really cool.

After the initial round of measurements, I'd be really interested in hearing if some extensional mode damping might affect the measured results.
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:27 AM
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Wow, Matt!

I can't believe the scope of this undertaking! We all owe you a huge debt of gratitude. Thank you so much for this and all your other contributions to the cause. wink.gif

Mike
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Old 06-04-2013, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhutchins View Post

Wow, Matt!

I can't believe the scope of this undertaking! We all owe you a huge debt of gratitude. Thank you so much for this and all your other contributions to the cause. wink.gif

Mike

+1

nice work
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Old 06-04-2013, 02:05 AM
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Awesome Matt.

I'll be following along for sure.
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:11 AM
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Man that is a sweet yard. biggrin.gif
If you are interested in trying out the 4550 with the bigger waveguides let me know and I'll send it.
I would like to see how much it is limited by the Seos 12.
Your a hard working man Matt
Thanks for your time.
Chris W
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:11 AM
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This is a great thing that you are doing for our community, Matt! When do you plan on getting started?

Do you already have the Seos waveguides? I am just curious to know if you will have to order the Seos-18 and Seos-24 and wait on them to be shipped to you from Poland?
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:57 AM
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Just remember that the same horn/waveguid can have different polar patterns when different drivers are used. THis can be VERY radical-or totally non existant-depending on the particular driver and horn combination.

It is REAL easy to read too much into a measurement of a single driver-UNLESS htat is the driver/horn combo that is actually going to be used.

I first becasue aware of this decades ago when I tried 2 different drivers (same manufacturer) on a single horn. ONe driver was VERY narrow in its coverage and the other "filled out" the horn the way it was supposed to be.

HOWEVER-when I used a different horn/type/coverage etc (same drivers) both drivers had the same coverage.

It all comes down to how well the horn./driver interaction/angles of exit and so forth "work together".

I remember hearing about a comparison back in the 80's in which Manufacturers A was saying their drivers were better than manufacturer B and they had the data to prove it. Yet manufacturer B saide theirs were better and THEY had the data to prove it.

HOWEVER the variable was that while the different drivers were being used-the horn they were placed on was made by the particular manufacturer. So each manufacturers driver perfromed better on THEIR horn-but not as good on the other manufacturers horn.

Just something to keep in mind.

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Physics-not fads
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Old 06-04-2013, 06:15 AM
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Umm....SUBSCRIBED for this feast of waveguide goodness!

You're a beast man - we're lucky to have you around. cool.gif

BTW nice use of the 25# plates. biggrin.gif
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Old 06-04-2013, 06:36 AM
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looks good.

Listen. It's All Good.
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:01 AM
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:09 AM
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Matt, if you'd like to test it I could offer up a BMS 4594 CD on an XR1464 horn.

This should be a fun comparo!
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:12 AM
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This should be very interesting! smile.gif
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:38 AM
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Right on !
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:26 AM
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I'll volunteer an 18Sound ND-1460A plus XT-1464. Can also send their 1.4"-2" adapter if it would be helpful (1460 becomes a 2060).

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Old 06-04-2013, 08:29 AM
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One horn that I have always been curious about is Dave Harris' Eliptrack-400 horn that is used in some Klipsch based builds such as the Cornscalla. This horn goes for almost the same as the Seos24, I believe something between $450 and $500 per pair. I never see these horns mentioned but the guys over at the Klipsch forums say they are top-notch.
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:33 AM
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Are you going to include your synergy horn in this test?

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

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Old 06-04-2013, 09:20 AM
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Sub'd dude!!!! Great thread!!

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Old 06-04-2013, 09:53 AM
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Looking forward to the results of this thread. smile.gif Thanks Matt

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Old 06-04-2013, 10:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsloms View Post

Matt, if you'd like to test it I could offer up a BMS 4594 CD on an XR1464 horn.

This should be a fun comparo!
Quote:
Originally Posted by pnw View Post

I'll volunteer an 18Sound ND-1460A plus XT-1464. Can also send their 1.4"-2" adapter if it would be helpful (1460 becomes a 2060).


Thanks guys, but I am going to try and get through the waveguides I have before starting anymore. That said after I finish with the current round I'll likely take you up on those offers, see if there are any other waveguide or CD's someone would like to volunteer to see tested. I would not test another CD on all the waveguides unless there is a large amount of support for it due to the time it would take. I'll likely test it only on a select few waveguides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimeran View Post

Are you going to include your synergy horn in this test?
No not going to include that one, not only is it too big and heavy to use with the same turntable but I am trying to convert them to an active/passive crossover and that is not quite done yet. I will have new measurements of them whenever I get that done but it is rather low priority.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:20 AM
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Very cool! Sounds like there will be at least a little overlap with what augerpro was working on back in 2009. It will be interesting to cross reference the two sets of measurements smile.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1148945/driver-testing-invite
https://sites.google.com/site/drivervault/driver-measurements/horns-and-waveguides
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:14 AM
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Any builds with the Denovo DW-654S waveguide out there?
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:38 PM
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Sweet! A very nice service to the members here Matt. You keep doing more and more to help in the DIY arena!
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Old 06-04-2013, 05:33 PM
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Wow. Impressive effort.

Greatly looking forward to reading more.

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Old 06-04-2013, 06:12 PM
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Ditto the importance of the matching between compression driver and horn.... it can affect distortion too.

Also, will distortion be normalized to spl? ie, eq'd flat? REW doesn't do that automatically....

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