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post #1 of 30 Old 06-04-2013, 03:05 AM - Thread Starter
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To build a sub similar to the PSA-XV15 for less than $800? A few of my friends said that it would be cheaper and possible better to build my own sub, but after looking, reading and researching DIY subs, I have come to the conclusion that this isn't possible.

If anyone else can give me some guidance, it would greatly appreciated.

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post #2 of 30 Old 06-04-2013, 04:05 AM
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Yes absolutely! I don't have the driver specs on the XV15 to model and make a direct apples to apples comparison, but something like a Dayton HO18 or a Stereo Integrity 18 in a ported enclosure powered by a Behringer EP4000 would likely beat it no problem. The HO18 is a $250 driver and the Stereo Integrity 18" driver is even less than that! You could get 2 of the Dayton HO18's for $500 for both and pick up a brand new Behringer EP4000 for $300 or less, then you would only have tte cost of the enclosure, (ie wood, glue, port tubes, binding post wire), and two of those for the cost of one XV15 would stomp just about any commercial subwoofer that you can think of!
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post #3 of 30 Old 06-04-2013, 07:14 AM
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It certainly is... The XV15 is solid, but there isnt anything special about it.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-469

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-752

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=268-352

In a 4 ft3 box will basically get you the same thing. Personally I would make the box a bit bigger and run a pair of 4" ports, as the XV15 is under ported. A 5 ft3 box with a pair of 4" x 30" ports, using PVC elbow fittings will outperform the XV15 when pushed to the limits.
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post #4 of 30 Old 06-04-2013, 07:49 AM
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Are you looking to replicate the XV15 or just get maximum bang for your buck? IMO the (savings) margins are much smaller when only building one sub with a plate amp. Yes, you could save money but it's not going to be a massive savings if you're building something that looks as nice as the XV15.

Consider Jay's example above - admittedly if done correctly it should outperform the XV15 by a bit, but you're losing the built in DSP/EQ, etc.

dayton 15" HO - 165
Bash 500W amp - 199
2 x ports - 25
Wood/MDF - 40 to 50
Glue, sanding discs, wire, polyfil or batting - 15
Paint/primer - 10
Grill materials - ?

If this is your first DIY effort expect to invest 10-20 hours of labor to do it correctly. Do you have tools or would you be looking for a flat pack of some sort?
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post #5 of 30 Old 06-04-2013, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

To build a sub similar to the PSA-XV15 for less than $800? A few of my friends said that it would be cheaper and possible better to build my own sub, but after looking, reading and researching DIY subs, I have come to the conclusion that this isn't possible.

If anyone else can give me some guidance, it would greatly appreciated.
as a reference, he's the xv15 outside groundplane measurement:

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post #6 of 30 Old 06-04-2013, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

Are you looking to replicate the XV15 or just get maximum bang for your buck? IMO the (savings) margins are much smaller when only building one sub with a plate amp. Yes, you could save money but it's not going to be a massive savings if you're building something that looks as nice as the XV15.

Consider Jay's example above - admittedly if done correctly it should outperform the XV15 by a bit, but you're losing the built in DSP/EQ, etc.

dayton 15" HO - 165
Bash 500W amp - 199
2 x ports - 25
Wood/MDF - 40 to 50
Glue, sanding discs, wire, polyfil or batting - 15
Paint/primer - 10
Grill materials - ?

If this is your first DIY effort expect to invest 10-20 hours of labor to do it correctly. Do you have tools or would you be looking for a flat pack of some sort?

This will be my first DIY sub, if I go the DIY route. I was looking for a flat pack. Something already per-cut so all I have to do is put it together.

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post #7 of 30 Old 06-04-2013, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

Smothering already per-cut so all I have to do is put it together.

You might ask Erich. I think he stocks chocolate syrup and caramel, but I'm sure he can order something else in if you ask him. biggrin.gif

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post #8 of 30 Old 06-04-2013, 10:38 AM
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Flat pack wise you're looking at something 18" and sealed to compete with the XV15.

Let's use the following example:

Dayton 18" HO - 250
18" 4 cube flat pack - 140
500W bash amp - 200
Polyfil, paint, glue ,wire - 30

This would give you >= performance vs. the single XV15, but of course is a bit more work. Personally I would prefer a rack mounted amp vs. a plate as well.
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post #9 of 30 Old 06-04-2013, 10:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

You might ask Erich. I think he stocks chocolate syrup and caramel, but I'm sure he can order something else in if you ask him. biggrin.gif

LMAO you got me before I could correct it. Damn iPad auto correct.

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post #10 of 30 Old 06-04-2013, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, after considering all of my options and $$$, I don't think that going with a DIY would save me much $$$. I supposed I should of mention my current set up:

Front: Polk Monitor 70 series II
Center: Polk Monitor 25C
Surround: Energy EF-500
Surround back: Jamo S426
Sub: Klipsch RW-12D (which I got on sale for $280 dollar)
AVR: Pioneer SC-1522-k

Room size 15 x 17 x 10 (vaulted ceiling highest section is 10'). My living room is an open area leading to the kitchen, front door hallway / garage, and hallway to the bedrooms. The Klipsch does a pretty good job, but I am looking just for a bit more hump bass wise. So, my idea was to sell the Klipsch and get a XV15, but then a lot of people said that it would be best to have 2 subs rather than one. So, I said may be get another 12" sub or another RW-12D if it goes on sale again. Then others told me a bigger more powerful sub would be best. So, that's why I am here trying to see if it would be beneficial to build a bigger DIY sub.

Decisions, decisions....and to top it all off I am getting married in September eek.gif, which my dear fiance just reminded as I look and luster for the PSA-XV30F lol.

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post #11 of 30 Old 06-04-2013, 12:55 PM
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another potent option

the Dayton DVC385

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-190http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-190

two of those in ported enclosures powered by a iNuke 3000DSP

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-190

should be enough left over for the enclosures

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post #12 of 30 Old 06-04-2013, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

Well, after considering all of my options and $$$, I don't think that going with a DIY would save me much $$$. I supposed I should of mention my current set up:

Front: Polk Monitor 70 series II
Center: Polk Monitor 25C
Surround: Energy EF-500
Surround back: Jamo S426
Sub: Klipsch RW-12D (which I got on sale for $280 dollar)
AVR: Pioneer SC-1522-k

Room size 15 x 17 x 10 (vaulted ceiling highest section is 10'). My living room is an open area leading to the kitchen, front door hallway / garage, and hallway to the bedrooms. The Klipsch does a pretty good job, but I am looking just for a bit more hump bass wise. So, my idea was to sell the Klipsch and get a XV15, but then a lot of people said that it would be best to have 2 subs rather than one. So, I said may be get another 12" sub or another RW-12D if it goes on sale again. Then others told me a bigger more powerful sub would be best. So, that's why I am here trying to see if it would be beneficial to build a bigger DIY sub.

Decisions, decisions....and to top it all off I am getting married in September eek.gif, which my dear fiance just reminded as I look and luster for the PSA-XV30F lol.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/4-ported-sub-flat-pack.html

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-464

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-752

Will equal the XV15 below 30hz. Not as much output higher up though.

Since you can buy in pieces, you could buy/build one, and slowly work on a second one
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post #13 of 30 Old 06-04-2013, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/subwoofer-flatpacks-2/4-ported-sub-flat-pack.html

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-464

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-752

Will equal the XV15 below 30hz. Not as much output higher up though.

Since you can buy in pieces, you could buy/build one, and slowly work on a second one

That sound like a good option.

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post #14 of 30 Old 06-08-2013, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you all for the different DIY options. However, the DIY sub quest has been put on hold for now. The wife doesn't want me to spend more than $500 for a sub. So, I might end up buying a second RW-12D sub for now, and once we buy our house....hoping for Sept/Nov...I'll be building some 18" biggrin.gif

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post #15 of 30 Old 06-08-2013, 01:03 PM
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Popalock is selling a newly constructed dual opposed SI 15" setup. It can/will blow the doors off anything in that price range. It's worth checking out for sure.
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post #16 of 30 Old 06-09-2013, 05:19 AM
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You can get a much better performing subs than that Klipsch for well under $500!

I would go with the following if I were on a $500 budget

Dayton HO15 $150
Yung or Bash plate amp $150
Flat pack $140

You might just end up spending slightly more than $500 but the difference will be substantial!

Check places like Ebay and A-gon for used drivers and amps. I once bought a Dayton HO15 on Ebay in like new condition for under $120.00! Plus you can routinely find amps of all sorts for a good price as well!
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post #17 of 30 Old 06-09-2013, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Too late guys. I've already ordered a second Klipsch RW-12D for $320 shipped. I'm happy with my current Klipsch for the money it performs well. I a, sure I can build a better sub, but since I am getting married in Sep, I can't spend much.

However, future wife stated I can either do DIY sub or buy the PSAs I want after we buy our house.

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post #18 of 30 Old 06-09-2013, 09:26 AM
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Glad you brought this up, Gus. And I hope you enjoy your second Klipsch. Mine is the "better" of my two subs.

Not being big on DIY but being a handy modder, would there be any benefit to replacing the existing speaker in the Klipsch with a "better" 12 inch?

Come to think of it, I may seriously consider (unless someone thinks it's a terrible idea) replacing the speaker in my "lesser" sub.

Is that a problem? Is there (usually) any tangible benefit?

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post #19 of 30 Old 06-09-2013, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Glad you brought this up, Gus. And I hope you enjoy your second Klipsch. Mine is the "better" of my two subs.
Not being big on DIY but being a handy modder, would there be any benefit to replacing the existing speaker in the Klipsch with a "better" 12 inch?
Come to think of it, I may seriously consider (unless someone thinks it's a terrible idea) replacing the speaker in my "lesser" sub.
Is that a problem? Is there (usually) any tangible benefit?
Michael

I thought about this as well. Replacing the woofer and plate amp with something with better response / power. I thing the limiting factor would be the box and port. However, it might work! I would be interested on this as well. Not much work to do other than replacing the plate amp and woofer!

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post #20 of 30 Old 06-11-2013, 04:14 AM
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This is not a good idea fellows. If you want better bass, then just bite the bullet and either build your own enclosure or buy a flat pack from DIYSG. If you want to reuse your Klipsch enclsoure then you would have to find a driver that will work well witth those enclosure specs, which will be like finding a needle in a haystack, maybe even worse! Sell those subs, go buy a flat pack from DIY SG and purchase a Dayton HO15 or perhaps even a Dayton DVC and a Behringer EP4000 and you will be done! If you can't afford that , then just sell your current Klipsch subs and keep saving money until you have enough to do the build. You can find the used Dayton HO15's from time to time on ebay, and you can also find a Behringer EP4000 for around $225 on ebay as well.
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post #21 of 30 Old 06-11-2013, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

If you want to reuse your Klipsch enclsoure then you would have to find a driver that will work well witth those enclosure specs, which will be like finding a needle in a haystack, maybe even worse!

Here's where you lose me. It's 3 cubic feet, with a 4 inch port and a 350 watt amp. What's the big deal?

I've read many times on the DIY thread "I had to make it a little smaller to fit" or "I had the room so I made it bigger," so obviously there is some "wiggle room" in the specs.

Granted, I'm not going to want to put a V-12 in a Beetle (actually, there was a time when I would have LOVED to do that, but never mind), so I don't see how swapping out one 12 inch speaker for another, presumably better, 12 inch speaker would be a problem.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-464

Please continue to try to enlighten me. I'm open minded, just dumb. wink.gif

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post #22 of 30 Old 06-11-2013, 06:41 AM
 
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Just an FYI for you guys, when you buy the 18" dayton HO from parts-express you can get their 4 cubic ft sealed flatpack box for half price (150 normally, 75 with driver) http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-7094
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post #23 of 30 Old 06-11-2013, 09:17 AM
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That is a sick deal.
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post #24 of 30 Old 06-11-2013, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

Just an FYI for you guys, when you buy the 18" dayton HO from parts-express you can get their 4 cubic ft sealed flatpack box for half price (150 normally, 75 with driver) http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-7094

Quote:
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That is a sick deal.

I agree that a good deal. I'll have to wait after I get married and buy the house. Then I will know what size room and woofer I will need to get. Thanks everyone.

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post #25 of 30 Old 06-13-2013, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Here's where you lose me. It's 3 cubic feet, with a 4 inch port and a 350 watt amp. What's the big deal?
I've read many times on the DIY thread "I had to make it a little smaller to fit" or "I had the room so I made it bigger," so obviously there is some "wiggle room" in the specs.
Granted, I'm not going to want to put a V-12 in a Beetle (actually, there was a time when I would have LOVED to do that, but never mind), so I don't see how swapping out one 12 inch speaker for another, presumably better, 12 inch speaker would be a problem.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-464
Please continue to try to enlighten me. I'm open minded, just dumb. wink.gif
Michael

Well it is unfortunately not that simple, and I must admit that I am not the best person to explain this, but here goes...

First, you need to run some simulations for the new driver that you are looking at and see how that particular driver performs in that particular enclosure. There are many many factors and reasons that this new driver might not sound good in that particular enclosure. You need to look up tte T/S parameters and model them in WinIsd or another similar program, some drivers work better in large ported enclosures and some work better in sealed enclosures.
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post #26 of 30 Old 06-13-2013, 06:04 AM
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Great. Thanks.

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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #27 of 30 Old 06-13-2013, 09:34 AM
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"Please continue to try to enlighten me. I'm open minded, just dumb."

if every driver worked with every enclosure, there would be no need for thiele and small.

there would be no need for modeling programs that incorporate their research.

drivers have differences in motor strength, moving mass, suspension compliance, and so on.

these aspects can make a driver that works great in one setup, such as an infinite baffle
turn into a total disaster when stuffed in a small ported enclosure.

your analogy of motor in a car is right, but not quite exaggerated enough to highlight the differences.

if you take a motorcycle engine in put it in a dumptruck, it will fail.

if you take a dumptruck engine and put it in a motorcycle, it will fail.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #28 of 30 Old 06-13-2013, 09:41 AM
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three different 12's in a 2.5 cubic footer tuned to 28hz (something like the klipsch box).


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post #29 of 30 Old 06-13-2013, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Please continue to try to enlighten me. I'm open minded, just dumb."

if every driver worked with every enclosure, there would be no need for thiele and small.
 

Who?

biggrin.gif

Okay, I'm not THAT dumb.

wink.gif

Thanks for the info.


Downloadable FREE demo discs:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475769/de...ently-authored 

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post #30 of 30 Old 06-13-2013, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post

Granted, I'm not going to want to put a V-12 in a Beetle (actually, there was a time when I would have LOVED to do that, but never mind), so I don't see how swapping out one 12 inch speaker for another, presumably better, 12 inch speaker would be a problem.
It would be the same problem as trying to put a Chevy engine into a Ford, or Dodge, or Toyota: It won't bolt to the transmission. A driver is an engine, powered by the amp. The cabinet is the transmission that couples to output of that engine to the air, to produce sound. That engine and transmission must specifically designed to work with each other or the results won't be any better than trying to drop that Chevy engine into a car where it simply won't fit.

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