Best in class for a sealed sub - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 06-05-2013, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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If you were to use the clone ft14000 LG amp, what is the best driver for a sealed enclosure, lets say we choose an 18" driver and 3.0 cu ft. I will be using at least 4 drivers, and one possibly two amps....

We all know sealed enclosures put a huge demand on the driver and amp, my thoughts are the TC LMS 5400 ultra, Re XXX 18 ect.......

I will be utilizing an L/T MiniDSP to flatten out the rolloff of the sealed ailignment.....

Kg

PS: My quad Tumults will be used as tuning subs as i did in my multiple sub thread.


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post #2 of 29 Old 06-05-2013, 01:07 PM
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No chance at gettting anything worthwhile from the RE's in 3cuft. You'd need at least 6 per driver, better yet 8-10. They need some air.

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post #3 of 29 Old 06-05-2013, 01:08 PM
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I would be surprised if the LMS isn't the unanimous favorite.

"Best 18" driver for small sealed enclosure with some L/T on an LG clone"
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post #4 of 29 Old 06-05-2013, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoFinWiley View Post

I would be surprised if the LMS isn't the unanimous favorite.

"Best 18" driver for small sealed enclosure with some L/T on an LG clone"

In 3.0 CF, I am not sure there are any other contenders.

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post #5 of 29 Old 06-05-2013, 03:10 PM
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for something that small, a big motor will help.

the ascendant audio mayhem might be a contender, at least for a bit.

a couple b&c 18sw115's would kill the ultra on the top end and only give up a db or two on the bottom end.

a couple bms 18n862's would seem to beat the ulta everywhere except low end sensitivity.

might also look at fi btl's or kicker solox. a pair of either might also be contenders.

do you really need to go so small?

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post #6 of 29 Old 06-06-2013, 04:08 AM
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^^^I just modeled the B&C drivers and the results are making me go hmmm. Basically, 2 B&C drivers ported at 24 Hz tuning (20 Hz HPF, 4TH order BW) nearly equals the output of 4 sealed Dayton Audio 18's from about 22 Hz up, about 1 dB down from 25 to 45 Hz, but produces greater output from 60 Hz on up. Obviously, the ported gets killed below tuning (30 dB down at 10 Hz).

Question is how important is sub 20 Hz information for HT? For most here on AVS diy section it is critical that we dig deep, I mean really deep. But is it always worth the trade off. The two B&C drivers were modeled in 3.5 cu ft enclosures and the 4 Daytons in 4.8 cu ft (total, 7 vice 19.2 cu ft). Few movie theaters even reach 20 Hz, but I know we all want beyond movie theater performance.

Sorry I strayed off topic, but I did go on winISD to model the B&C drivers in sealed enclosure. Gave a nearly linear response (diagonal line from low freq to high freq). As I use my phone for internet and my computer is not on the net, I don't have attachments illustrating this text.

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post #7 of 29 Old 06-06-2013, 04:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post

^^^I just modeled the B&C drivers and the results are making me go hmmm. Basically, 2 B&C drivers ported at 24 Hz tuning (20 Hz HPF, 4TH order BW) nearly equals the output of 4 sealed Dayton Audio 18's from about 22 Hz up, about 1 dB down from 25 to 45 Hz, but produces greater output from 60 Hz on up. Obviously, the ported gets killed below tuning (30 dB down at 10 Hz).

Question is how important is sub 20 Hz information for HT? For most here on AVS diy section it is critical that we dig deep, I mean really deep. But is it always worth the trade off. The two B&C drivers were modeled in 3.5 cu ft enclosures and the 4 Daytons in 4.8 cu ft (total, 7 vice 19.2 cu ft). Few movie theaters even reach 20 Hz, but I know we all want beyond movie theater performance.

Sorry I strayed off topic, but I did go on winISD to model the B&C drivers in sealed enclosure. Gave a nearly linear response (diagonal line from low freq to high freq). As I use my phone for internet and my computer is not on the net, I don't have attachments illustrating this text.

i would hardly call it off topic ! Its spot on ! I have always like the flexibility of a sealed system, no HP, deep extension ( with the usual sacrifices ). If ported becomes an option, the B&C look pretty cool......

The Meyham looks to be a solid performer, as always in an array of multiples..... there's little use in arguing over the need for multiples if high SPL from 10hz on up is desired at the LP.

An argument can also be made for dual driver cabinets with lower cost components, but i am looking to limit it to one driver per cabinet, and the size be limited to at least 4 cubes squared for now.


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post #8 of 29 Old 06-06-2013, 04:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

for something that small, a big motor will help.

the ascendant audio mayhem might be a contender, at least for a bit.

a couple b&c 18sw115's would kill the ultra on the top end and only give up a db or two on the bottom end.

a couple bms 18n862's would seem to beat the ulta everywhere except low end sensitivity.

might also look at fi btl's or kicker solox. a pair of either might also be contenders.

do you really need to go so small?

Only limiting to sealed and a small foot print to see whats out there right now. Looks like the Re is out as it indeed needs alot of air as stated, so for single driver sealed in a 3-4 cab cubed the 5400ultra is a clean sweep.......

I can see why manufacturers try to appeal to a broader market by limiting the motor size (limiting build cost).


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post #9 of 29 Old 06-06-2013, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, i've never used a program to model, but the time has come...... whats the DeFacto free program out there to model


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post #10 of 29 Old 06-06-2013, 05:22 AM
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post #11 of 29 Old 06-06-2013, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

Ok, i've never used a program to model, but the time has come...... whats the DeFacto free program out there to model

Ditto on the WinISD recommendation. See the first post of the DIY FAQ thread for download information. For some strange reason, the latest version of WinISD is not linked on the Linearteam web page. The earlier versions have problems under Vista and later versions of Windows. The FAQ thread has the correct link.
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post #12 of 29 Old 06-06-2013, 09:00 AM
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2 B&C's and 4 Ultras is more bass than most people would need OR desire. Only a limited number of bassheads would be wanting more after implementing that.

Heck even if you swapped that for the cheaper stuff such as: 4 Dayton PA 18's and 4 HO 18's dual-opposed (four 3cuft boxes) powered by 3 nu3kdsp's; most people would be laughing all the way to the bank with the savings in hand.

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post #13 of 29 Old 06-06-2013, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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If i could get WiniSD to find the 5400's specs LOL, i cant....

My thought is that 4 Ultra's in 3 cubed cabs would do the trick, now is it two ft14000, or one........


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post #14 of 29 Old 06-06-2013, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

If i could get WiniSD to find the 5400's specs LOL, i cant....

.

TC SOUNDS 2010 LMS Ultra 5400 18.zip 1k .zip file

Here is the file to import for the Ultra KG!
Attached Files
File Type: zip TC SOUNDS 2010 LMS Ultra 5400 18.zip (738 Bytes, 11 views)
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post #15 of 29 Old 06-06-2013, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

If i could get WiniSD to find the 5400's specs LOL, i cant....

My thought is that 4 Ultra's in 3 cubed cabs would do the trick, now is it two ft14000, or one........

Might as well 'seal the deal' and get two clone amps. smile.gif


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post #16 of 29 Old 06-06-2013, 12:46 PM
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The UXL will run and gun with the 5400.... Those would be the only 2 choices I'd pick for the clone....

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #17 of 29 Old 06-06-2013, 12:57 PM
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The UXL will run and gun with the 5400.... Those would be the only 2 choices I'd pick for the clone....

I haven't been keeping close tabs on these, what is the ETA on them?
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post #18 of 29 Old 06-06-2013, 01:13 PM
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Wow, KG, this will be pretty cool!

Four 5400s, and your room ... awesome. Have you considered Speaker Power for amplification? I know they're expensive, but what a product. US designed and built,..superb long term power, great investment.


Not to re-engineer the wheel rolleyes.gif but since the Tumults are covering smoothing duties, how about a paradigm shift? What about eliminating the huge amplifier/high power requirement, and consider an IB? With the Tumults, the primary logistical issue with the IB approach is alleviated significantly, ie., location criticality/flexibility. This is my current scheme; quad 18" IB, w/pair of double 15" modal smoothing subs.


This will be one to watch, best of luck moving forward.

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post #19 of 29 Old 06-06-2013, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

If i could get WiniSD to find the 5400's specs LOL, i cant....
My thought is that 4 Ultra's in 3 cubed cabs would do the trick, now is it two ft14000, or one........

You will need one 14k per pair, regardless of what the box model tells you.
You can make due with one per quad, but you will be missing 3db's of bass if you do; but then I will have to watch the volume knob.

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post #20 of 29 Old 06-06-2013, 03:23 PM
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Or one could buy a 10000Q and power all four LMS-U's with ~2,000w each. One amp.


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post #21 of 29 Old 06-06-2013, 03:40 PM
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How does the Aura NS18 hold up to the rest of these?

Trying to enjoy the simple things in life.

 

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post #22 of 29 Old 06-06-2013, 04:41 PM
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Kimeran; NS18 is a fantastic sub driver SQ-wise. Doesn't have the throw or power handling of the TC Ultra and it really needs a larger box than the TC driver too. You don't need LG clones to power the Aura tho.

kgveteran; I would go at least 3.5 cubes for a TC driver if you can fit it. No point in buying one the best sub drivers in the world (if not the best) just to hog-tie it.

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post #23 of 29 Old 06-07-2013, 07:04 AM - Thread Starter
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To be fair, the UXL ( eta ? ) would have to be looked at in pairs since its half the price of the 5400. Not even sure of the size of the room yet, but i will be looking at a house (ranch type) that i can add the HT room to..... My last room was 15X13 with 9' ceilings.... I would like to lengthening the room to allow for a riser and another couch for total of 6 people or so....

So, all these great options are possible :0). The Clones are so tough to ignore as a possibility, all that power for pennies.. Time will tell...


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post #24 of 29 Old 06-07-2013, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsloms View Post

TC SOUNDS 2010 LMS Ultra 5400 18.zip 1k .zip file

Here is the file to import for the Ultra KG!

Thank you !


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post #25 of 29 Old 06-24-2013, 05:28 AM - Thread Starter
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So, devils advocate would say how bout IB..... Fi IB318 is a pretty nice driver for 254.00 each. I would like to do a inroom outie, that would be 4 drivers per cabinet and two manifolds to hold each up front center. I could probably power each group of 4 drivers with a single EP4000 LOL.....

I would be left with my quad tumults to tune the room if needed.............


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post #26 of 29 Old 06-24-2013, 06:45 AM
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^^^^^ this
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post #27 of 29 Old 06-24-2013, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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^^^^^ this

?


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post #28 of 29 Old 06-24-2013, 07:23 AM
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?

"^^^^" indicates reference to the above post

"This" refers to heavy agreement to the post

I must be guilty because people say I am guilty because they chose to call me guilty because they refuse to see the truth. Much easier to be part of the mob..
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post #29 of 29 Old 06-24-2013, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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I've never lived with an IB setup, but i imagine 8 Fi IB drivers with their 30mm Xmax would kick up some serious LF fun


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