TURNKEY V DIY POLL - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 06-11-2013, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1476880/turnkey-v-diy


This poll is only for information purposes only.. there are no wrong or right answers concerning one’s preference. A lot of criteria comes into play when considering to DIY, or go with the turnkey solution. With many it’s a no brainer regardless of which option he or she decides! I can think of many factors with good reasoning supporting both decisions depending on which way one decides. Imo DIY is a very narrow option considered by very few. I could name many reasons why a guy might consider DIY, but then I could name just as many going the turnkey route. One thing I would like to interject is that with more ID company's showing up, it has a way of bringing the turnkey final $cost option down... (well with some anyway) but then that can be said for DIY. On the other hand it only takes a few tools (unbeknownst by many) to go DIY if a guy is committed. So as not to come across for one option over the other, (I admittedly am bi) when it comes to SW’s. It’s your ideas I'm interested in. I will say when I’m thinking of a large enclosure project, I deffitly favor DIY big-time. The enclosure isn't even available.

Anyway looking forward to the many thoughts regarding this subject if you care to participate. Pic’s are always welcome.

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post #2 of 23 Old 06-12-2013, 05:15 AM - Thread Starter
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So far the numbers are translating out to DIY 63%... Turnkey 22%... and Bi coming in third at 13%. I kinda thought some of the numbers would be reversed... anyway to early to tell at this point.

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post #3 of 23 Old 06-12-2013, 05:19 AM
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If you posted this in the speakers section and kept it on the first page, then your results would be skewed in the other direction. Right now, mostly DIY'ers are about all that are seeing this poll.

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post #4 of 23 Old 06-12-2013, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5 View Post

If you posted this in the speakers section and kept it on the first page, then your results would be skewed in the other direction. Right now, mostly DIY'ers are about all that are seeing this poll.

Yeah I thought of that, but I do have it posted in the SW section like the link suggests. I did take your advice though and also posted over in the speaker section. Thanks AV

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post #5 of 23 Old 06-12-2013, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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A friendly bump! wink.gif

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post #6 of 23 Old 06-12-2013, 09:43 PM
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I came looking for turkey! smile.gif

I found no turkey. frown.gif

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post #7 of 23 Old 06-12-2013, 10:22 PM
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I came looking for turkey! smile.gif

I found no turkey. frown.gif

I was like ????????????

Then like biggrin.gif

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post #8 of 23 Old 06-13-2013, 04:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I was like ????????????

Then like biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

I came looking for turkey! smile.gif

I found no turkey. frown.gif


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post #9 of 23 Old 06-13-2013, 04:52 AM
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I went to an authorised PSB/NAD dealer last weekend to audition NAD M25. He played The Dark Night rises for the demo and my jaw just dropped at the quality of bass I was hearing and the never ending dynamic headroom I was treated to. This movie is no slouch in LFE. I have never heard such an accurate and super clean bass from any high-end sub I've ever listened to thus far such as REL, DefTech, JM Labs.

Upon checking the sub, I found out it was PSB S300. With only 300 watts rms and 750 peak, it was unbelievably loud and super clean with no hint of resonance or distortion even at 00 on master volume. The listening room was roughly 18'x16'. The movie was playing on default setting on the reciever with no external eq, dynamic EQ, or Audyssey. I don't know if it was the accurate signal processing by the reciever (NAD T747) or the room accoustics or the sub itself was so great.

I am fully sold on PSB. The specs dont look that great on paper, but the listening was unbelievable. I never thought a turnkey sub would be this dynamic and clean. I thought I would never leave the DIY route, but I think PSB nailed it and made me revisit my bias towards DIY subs. Although, I went to audtion M25 amp, I changed my mind and have ordered S500 sub which is the flagship model from PSB. And knowing that the amp is developed by NAD, the 500 watts rms and 1500 watts dynamic peak seem conservative. NAD is famous for being very conservative with their wattage specs.

Kudos PSB!!!

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post #10 of 23 Old 06-13-2013, 09:55 AM
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with subs, you are hearing as much of the room as anything.

unless you really know what you are doing, making comparisons in different environments will only serve to confuse.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #11 of 23 Old 06-13-2013, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

I went to an authorised PSB/NAD dealer last weekend to audition NAD M25. He played The Dark Night rises for the demo and my jaw just dropped at the quality of bass I was hearing and the never ending dynamic headroom I was treated to. This movie is no slouch in LFE. I have never heard such an accurate and super clean bass from any high-end sub I've ever listened to thus far such as REL, DefTech, JM Labs.

Upon checking the sub, I found out it was PSB S300. With only 300 watts rms and 750 peak, it was unbelievably loud and super clean with no hint of resonance or distortion even at 00 on master volume. The listening room was roughly 18'x16'. The movie was playing on default setting on the reciever with no external eq, dynamic EQ, or Audyssey. I don't know if it was the accurate signal processing by the reciever (NAD T747) or the room accoustics or the sub itself was so great.

I am fully sold on PSB. The specs dont look that great on paper, but the listening was unbelievable. I never thought a turnkey sub would be this dynamic and clean. I thought I would never leave the DIY route, but I think PSB nailed it and made me revisit my bias towards DIY subs. Although, I went to audtion M25 amp, I changed my mind and have ordered S500 sub which is the flagship model from PSB. And knowing that the amp is developed by NAD, the 500 watts rms and 1500 watts dynamic peak seem conservative. NAD is famous for being very conservative with their wattage specs.

Kudos PSB!!!

There IS the possibility that the dealer actually did their job and spent a serious amount of time and effort to setup that room perfectly , just for this very reason, to sell you stuff.

Please do a comparison for us when the product arrives.
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post #12 of 23 Old 06-13-2013, 11:47 AM
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The moment The Dark Night Rises started, I could make out the mains (PSB Synchrony) were set to Large. Coz I could feel there was very low redirected bass but LFE was tremendously strong. I checked the settings on NAD T747 myself and I was right. So, I changed them to small and did my audition. Like I said before, NAD avr was set to its pure default setting without audyssey, dynamic eq, or any other external eq. Even the levels were set to 00 position for all the channels, and to my surprise, so were the distances. So, you can well imagine how poorly the avr was set up.

As regards the room, all 4 walls were acoustically treated with foam panels to roughly 6 feet height all around. The floor was concrete covered with not so thick carpet. LP was 16 feet away from the mains, center, and projector screen.

The final piece was the sub, S300. It was placed right behind the listening position about 2 feet behind the sofa firing right into the LP. I don't know if this did the trick, but that was not the first time I was listening to a quality sub nearfield. But this PSB sub was mind blowingly clean, accurate and loud. I mean I went to buy M25 amp and came back placing the order for a sub instead. It is a hell of sub, at least in my limited experience with high end big guns. I know um paying exorbitant amount for S500 ($2500) and there must be better options in the US, but I was completely floored by what I heard and couldnt resist placing the order. I can still cancel the order if somebody can spot anything I'm completely missing about this sub

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post #13 of 23 Old 06-13-2013, 12:07 PM
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I dont know man, that's a lot of money for a 2.3 ft3 500 watt 12" 25hz tuned sub...

With that kind of money you could do some crazy DIY stuff, there is some nice high end plate amps out there

http://www.minidsp.com/products/plate-amplifiers/pwr-dsp1

Dual opposed with these woofers?

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-12-subwoofers/scan-speak-32w/4878t-revelator-13-subwoofer/
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post #14 of 23 Old 06-13-2013, 12:17 PM
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Once you go DIY, you never go back. The jump in quality over turnkey at the price paid is huge.

With a good flat pack and pre-cut baffles, it is really easy now for people without the proper tools to get it done otherwise.
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post #15 of 23 Old 06-13-2013, 12:24 PM
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I would if I lived in US. I am in Pakistan and probably the only lone wolf in persuit of ultimate bass. I can rake up as much bass as is available with locally available brands only.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

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post #16 of 23 Old 06-14-2013, 02:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Once you go DIY, you never go back. The jump in quality over turnkey at the price paid is huge.

With a good flat pack and pre-cut baffles, it is really easy now for people without the proper tools to get it done otherwise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

There IS the possibility that the dealer actually did their job and spent a serious amount of time and effort to setup that room perfectly , just for this very reason, to sell you stuff.

Please do a comparison for us when the product arrives.

Make note to self.. Do not move to Pakistan.

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post #17 of 23 Old 06-15-2013, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by braveheart123 View Post

I went to an authorised PSB/NAD dealer last weekend to audition NAD M25.

There's a dealer with that kind of stuff in Isloo? Where?

Nice city. Nicer when you can skip staying with relatives and spend a couple weeks in the Serena. smile.gif
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Make note to self.. Do not move to Pakistan.

While I can see many reasons to not move to Pakistan, audio-wise the biggest one is currently "load shedding," which is the local euphemism for "electricity rationing." True, anyone who lives well enough to be able to afford higher-end imported audio equipment will also have their own generator and probably UPS's as well. But those generators don't produce especially clean power, so I'd not run sensitive electronics off them.

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post #18 of 23 Old 06-15-2013, 08:49 AM
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There's a dealer with that kind of stuff in Isloo? Where?

Nice city. Nicer when you can skip staying with relatives and spend a couple weeks in the Serena. smile.gif
While I can see many reasons to not move to Pakistan, audio-wise the biggest one is currently "load shedding," which is the local euphemism for "electricity rationing." True, anyone who lives well enough to be able to afford higher-end imported audio equipment will also have their own generator and probably UPS's as well. But those generators don't produce especially clean power, so I'd not run sensitive electronics off them.


Haha haha haha ........ that's a good laugh. The world doesn't start and end in US alone. I auditioned the PSB in Lahore, sorry for using the word "locally" incorrectly.

Anyway, we have very high end big buck audio gear in this part of the world (Mark Levinson, Krell, NAD, Cary Audio, Classe, Rotel, Cambridge Audio, B&W, Meridian, REL, JM Labs, Dali, Sonus Faber, Def Tech and many more). You just have to have very big pockets to buy such stuff here and that too in cash, coz we don't believe in credit cards. The funny thing about credit cards is.....you have everything and yet nothing at all.

As regards the electricity, doesn't matter. I have other stuff to do as well besides just HT. wink.gif

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post #19 of 23 Old 06-24-2013, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

There IS the possibility that the dealer actually did their job and spent a serious amount of time and effort to setup that room perfectly , just for this very reason, to sell you stuff.

Please do a comparison for us when the product arrives.

Contrary to my earlier decision to go for PSB S500, I played conservatively and ordered S300 model instead (the one I auditioned). I bought this sub a week ago and been using it since. I will order the second one in a couple of months.
But I will do the detailed review of single S300 next week. All I can say is that PSB knows big time how to bend the rules of physics. Unbelievable power from such a tiny sub....thanks to NAD amp. It is the cleanest and most accurate sub with monsterous chest slam I've ever heard. FANTASTIC.

I would reckon not to go on the published specs, they are very very conservatively stated. I have developed second thoughts about going DIY route again, unless I hear something as clean and as accurate as S300. I wonder what would S500 be????

I will get my new AVR (Cambridge Audio Azur 751R) tomorrow. So, it will be a while before I finally come up with the S300 review running off the new avr.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

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post #20 of 23 Old 06-25-2013, 05:30 AM
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So far the numbers are translating out to DIY 63%... Turnkey 22%... and Bi coming in third at 13%. I kinda thought some of the numbers would be reversed... anyway to early to tell at this point.

Put poll in a turnkey forum smile.gif

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post #21 of 23 Old 06-25-2013, 07:41 PM
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Put poll in a turnkey forum smile.gif

Every buyer naturally defends their own purchase decision.
That's because most of them have never designed or built a speaker and so have no idea what you can achieve for the money. Most have probably never even heard a good DIY design, so asking someone who knows little to nothing about the subject won't get you useful responses.

Besides, polls are generally more about popularity than performance. If asked what was a good sub in a poll and 1000 said sub X was good, and Ricci's performance data showed it wasn't, the 1000 votes would mean nothing to me.
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post #22 of 23 Old 06-26-2013, 12:10 PM
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^ Well then, seeing I've done BOTH, multiple times, perhaps I can offer a perspective that's a little more meaningful to you...

MY "new" attitude about it is this:

Really, for most/many people, we're taking about a relatively small amount of money. What?! We're talking about thousands of dollars, here, many times.

Let me explain:

So I built my quad Daytons and threw in a nice Crown amp. Cost me about $1600 and 24 hours of work at the end of the day. Nice cabinets, absurd performance for my room. Spent about double of that I would have dropped on a comparably-performing (yeah, give or take, here or there) dual Captivator array with the same amp.

Yep, double. But, so what? And I say that as a guy I can almost guarantee earns less than half of the guys on avs that are my age. Just look at what you end up with, dollar for dollar, either way.

So with DIY I have a $1600 on a sub system I'll likely own for 5+ years. But had I saved up for "x" months, doubled down and gone the Cap route I'd have a known super performer ( I SOLD my single Cap to go DIY, btw) with almost certainly a better built cabinet, and a warranty. Never mind I never cut a piece of wood, drilled a hole, got a drop of glue on the floor, swung a paint brush, or bought a 36" clamp for. wink.gifsmile.gif Resale/residual value? No brainer.

The above DIY option doesn't even consider my time of course, which I seem to value much more than many others here, but that's cool, I like woodworking anyway so it's not a total loss, there.

I have no real other hobbies that require $, so I'm in pretty good shape in that dept. I rarely even hit the bars for a night out anymore so I know that puts me in a bit better shape than some others. tongue.gif

But in the end, again, I think the ID market and advancements in the tech in general have put such awesome performing subs within reach of so many that the line has become more blurred than ever. Yes, you can absolutely wring more performance out of every dollar you spend with DIY...but people have to realize that there's also a LOT of value in going the other way, too.

Tight budget and you know your way around basic woodworking? DIY. Need/want off the charts output/REALLY large room? DIY.

Looking for a great subwoofer or two to put you ahead of 99% of your neighborhood (not AVS, mind you) without doing anything but carrying it in the house? Turnkey.

If you asked me for ONE general answer though- after going both routes numerous times- I could confidently answer turnkey at this point. And that's great for our hobby and the hobbyists, alike.


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post #23 of 23 Old 06-27-2013, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Once you go DIY, you never go back. The jump in quality over turnkey at the price paid is huge.

With a good flat pack and pre-cut baffles, it is really easy now for people without the proper tools to get it done otherwise.

Yeah I see things have really changed since my last build.. never even heard of a flat-pack then. They sure would make DIY easier to get into and at a very fare price to boot! I wouldn't know what to do without all the MDF dust though. I remember building a couple-three at a time and talk about a mess! rolleyes.gif

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