A 3 way 99db multi configurable SEOS design - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 2061 Old 05-23-2014, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

I have been reading a bit in the "SEOS Maximus" thread, and though the idea is very intriguing, for MY USAGE, I am not even tempted to build such a huge, heavy, and expensive beast.

The Maximus is just an exercise in what the DIY community could do if they were going to build a ridiculously big speaker. They're too big for my theater, but I wanted a full range set of speakers for the shop......and to show off. I figured if they could get into the 20's, why not.

But in the end, the 1099 is going to be very hard to beat and certainly enough for virtually anyone's home theater. It would be too much for my theater I'm sure. Honestly, most people that get any of these style speakers are overwhelmed with their output and probably built too big to start with. biggrin.gif


There will be an option for the 1096 baffles very soon.


Has anyone checked on the stock of the buyout midranges lately? eek.gif But don't worry. biggrin.gif


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Twelve 10" NHT subwoofer build.
Cloning of a NHT VR-3.
2 ACI 15" subwoofers.

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post #812 of 2061 Old 05-23-2014, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

"Pretty good"? You are way too modest...these speakers ROCK! I realize that there are technically "better" speaker designs out there - but 95% of that "better" is in the low bass response - that's what makes the speaker bigger, heavier, and more expensive. But none of these speakers are any "better" in the other 90% of the audible range, and a lot of them are not as good. As soon as you mate any of the "better" speakers with a sub, all that low end, size, and weight are no longer needed, and now that speaker is competing on a level playing field with the 1099. I have been reading a bit in the "SEOS Maximus" thread, and though the idea is very intriguing, for MY USAGE, I am not even tempted to build such a huge, heavy, and expensive beast. In my world, I am much more impressed with a huge sound coming out of a small box than I am hearing the same sound coming from a cabinet bigger than my refrigerator. I really feel that the 1099, coupled with a great sub, can effectively compete with ANYTHING out there, and when you consider the price/performance ratio, that just knocks it out of the park - simply mind blowing.
I'm trying to be cool and calm, but to be honest, you really got to hear these to appreciate them.
I've been very busy at work (and still am), and I have dedicated all of my spare time to building these, so I haven't posted much at all - no time to chat when work needs to be done...wink.gif But I am really glad I got these finished. Like I said, I was amazed at the sound of the center with my Unity LRs, but I was even more impressed once I got to hear three 1099s as my LCR...UNREEEAL!! Now I know what YOU have been listening to for the last few months...biggrin.gif

Thanks for leading the way...Your build was my inspiration!
I agree except concerning the subwoofer. If you cross at 80hz then having a full range speaker probably does not make sense.
But if you cross over at 60h, then having mains that go down to around 40hz would make a big difference.
Not everyone likes to cross at 80hz and some, like me, like a very strong midbass from about 50hz to 200hz which you will not get from
a subwoofer alone as there is a brick filter on the lfe channel around 120hz.
This is why I would prefer to run a fusion-15 as my LR and a 1099 as the center channel.
I think this would be just as good a combo if not better than an all 1099 LCR.
But...this is just my subjective opinion...
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post #813 of 2061 Old 05-23-2014, 05:45 PM
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Tux, I know the 1099 was designed to lay horizontally or vertically (depending on which baffle the user picks) in terms of its purpose for center channel duty. Is there any advantage in the center channel configuration for it to be horizontal?
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post #814 of 2061 Old 05-23-2014, 07:44 PM
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I don't know much about the Cheap Thrills, but by its name I would assume that it is a decent low end speaker

HI Bob, thanks for your comments and your review on your 1099 system. The Cheap Thrills used a 15" buy out woofer from Celestion and the DNA 350/360 compression driver. Not sure if it is classified as low end. The designer is Bill Waslo and this speaker received very very good reviews. We don't hear much about this one is because the woofer is no longer available.

I really would like to know if the 1099 would be a great match for my L/R mains? Anyone else care to comment or suggest a good horizontal center design alternative?

Thanks.
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post #815 of 2061 Old 05-23-2014, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Erich. Yikes. Glad you have some in stock. I'll have to test the regular stock version. But that will mean a major price hike of course frown.gif

Lemans. It can do a 60hz XO. It just begins to roll off around 70 iirc and will have less power handling. I'm sure the Fusion 15 is a great design. But it would be neck and neck with the 1099 in terms of midbass. 2x10" woofer at 99db/w is a sick amount of midbass. A total of 6 of them in an LCR will easily handle the 60 to 120 hz content of the LFE channel provided you're not sitting 20' away listening at 10db over reference. Even then, I'll default to fatshaft's experience there wink.gif

Gpmbc, no advantage other than form fitting. If you have an AT screen, may as well go with 3 vertical. But either way is going to be negligible.

Jsluk, that's a hard question. In one sense, other than 3 matching speakers is a compromise many would assert. On the other hand, you're forced into a mismatch. Might as well match it with a SEOS product that has high SPL capability like your cheap thrills. Only thing I can think of is, based on how Bill designs, and the interaction I've had with cheap thrill users, there isn't much BSC whereas the 1099 is loaded all the way to 80hz. Eq fixes this no problem. Like audessay or what ever. I'd say its a good match. I got your pm. I'll reply when I'm not on my phone.
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post #816 of 2061 Old 05-23-2014, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

Erich. Yikes. Glad you have some in stock. I'll have to test the regular stock version. But that will mean a major price hike of course frown.gif

I'm surprised no one else noticed that the buy out woofers for the 1099 are basically gone. Normally this would mean that the speaker is ancient history like the 15" Cheap Thrills model.

But no need for anyone to panic because I was tracking their stock and bought a decent number of them after hearing the good reviews. Plus I purchased a good number of them once Tux finished up the design anyway.

So Tux, no need to worry about testing anything new for a while. The Elusive 1099 will be playing hide and seek for quite some time. biggrin.gif

I would say I got worried and ordered hundreds, but that would make me look kind of bizarre. biggrin.gif
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post #817 of 2061 Old 05-23-2014, 10:57 PM
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So I totally want (2) fusion 10" and 1 1099 for a center. Take my money now !!!!
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post #818 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

But no need for anyone to panic because I was tracking their stock and bought a decent number of them after hearing the good reviews.
I would say I got worried and ordered hundreds, but that would make me look kind of bizarre. biggrin.gif

Holy Crap, Erich!!! 😄
I can't imagine how different this community would be without your investment and commitments to DIY. Thank you!!!


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post #819 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 05:56 AM
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I was looking into getting some flat packs made up and didn't want them sitting around with no midwoofers. So it made sense to get a good number of them to be on the safe side.


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post #820 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 06:36 AM
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There will be an option for the 1096 baffles very soon.
Will there be an announcement or should we just keep checking back at your site? Even though I am planning on taking a little break right now, I will buy the surrounds as soon as they are available...biggrin.gif

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post #821 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 06:40 AM
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I've got them, just not on the site yet. Hopefully I can get a bunch more crossover parts very soon.


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post #822 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 07:46 AM
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Tux, Bob and all,

I thought I'd post my finished 1099's.
This is how it will finally play out.




I've placed them on my former surrounds to lift them a little off the front stage floor. They were too high on top of the subs.
The CD is a little over ear height when I'm sitting and they sound even better now!
I've also raised my screen by approx. 8" and so I raised my center by that same amount too and it made a pretty decent difference in my center channel sound.
I had a major dip in the 100-200HZ region which helped tremendously.

I am now experimenting how to finish the front.
I am now considering covering all the front wall with insulation and building a screen of Spandex (white) for my screen.
All fun so I'll see what it gives.

PS. Tux, raising my center approx 8" (from the bottom of the speaker at 6" from ground to 14" now from ground) made a huge difference. wink.giftongue.gif
Should've kept my FR. Sorry don't have have it.


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post #823 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 08:03 AM
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That is awesome.


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post #824 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

I was looking into getting some flat packs made up and didn't want them sitting around with no midwoofers. So it made sense to get a good number of them to be on the safe side.

Ummm...soon, as in UM18-22 soon, or soon as most people understand it?...wink.gif


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post #825 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 10:08 AM
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Looks great, Fatshaft! biggrin.gif

Your system looks very similar to mine - flat black - two 15" (?) sealed subs...great minds think alike...tongue.gif
Quote:
I've placed them on my former surrounds to lift them a little off the front stage floor. They were too high on top of the subs.
The CD is a little over ear height when I'm sitting and they sound even better now!
That's what I was thinking last night. My subs are 22" cubes (with dual opposing high excursion drivers), and placing the 1099s on them raised the CD too high - I agree with your assessment. So last night I used plain old milk crates which are 11" high and that worked out perfectly, so my plan is to build 3 stands - one angled one for the center and two cube shaped ones for the LRs.

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post #826 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Looks great, Fatshaft! biggrin.gif

Your system looks very similar to mine - flat black - two 15" (?) sealed subs...great minds think alike...tongue.gif
That's what I was thinking last night. My subs are 22" cubes (with dual opposing high excursion drivers), and placing the 1099s on them raised the CD too high - I agree with your assessment. So last night I used plain old milk crates which are 11" high and that worked out perfectly, so my plan is to build 3 stands - one angled one for the center and two cube shaped ones for the LRs.

Ya, I'll be doing the same, building 3 stands, with the center angled upwards of course.
Hard to see but my center is angled upwards.

Re: the subs, I have a little more than you think.
Those, in the front, are the SI18's but I also have 2 SI18's in the back with 4 FTW-21's in the back too! biggrin.gif

Here's what it looks like the back view taken from the front.


To put the picture in perspective the center seat is 5ft 6in from the back wall and 11ft from the front wall. tongue.gif


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post #827 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 10:54 AM
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Holy crap, Fatshaft! Your neighbors must love you...biggrin.gif That is some serious bass you have going there!

And I thought I was crazy with a total of four 15" drivers (2 TC Sounds HE 15s and 2 Blueprint 1503s). I hope your room doesn't crumble...tongue.gif

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post #828 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

Tux, Bob and all,

I thought I'd post my finished 1099's.
This is how it will finally play out.




I've placed them on my former surrounds to lift them a little off the front stage floor. They were too high on top of the subs.
The CD is a little over ear height when I'm sitting and they sound even better now!
I've also raised my screen by approx. 8" and so I raised my center by that same amount too and it made a pretty decent difference in my center channel sound.
I had a major dip in the 100-200HZ region which helped tremendously.

I am now experimenting how to finish the front.
I am now considering covering all the front wall with insulation and building a screen of Spandex (white) for my screen.
All fun so I'll see what it gives.

PS. Tux, raising my center approx 8" (from the bottom of the speaker at 6" from ground to 14" now from ground) made a huge difference. wink.giftongue.gif
Should've kept my FR. Sorry don't have have it.

Please tell me after all of that effort on the 1099's that you'll make some nice custom stands for them to sit on? smile.gif

I think you should really take a look at what doublewing11 did with his front wall in his theater.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1434831/the-coffin-build/390 scroll down to post 398. His theater was designed by the Erskine Group and they recommended just using 1" Linacoustics on the front wall, a little bit of the front side walls and ceiling.

You basically put the first layer of 1" Linacoustics, then a layer of 3-4mm poly (wapor barrier) and then a second layer of the Linacoustics. Beastaudio also did the same thing in his theater room and both absolutely love the results. I'm going to be doing the exact same thing in my room too.
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post #829 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 11:43 AM
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The 1096 would fit better in my room with waveguide height. Can you purchase the 1096 when the 1099 is available ? I'm assuming it would be about 300 each. Only difference with 1096 is less midbass ? I'm not a big midbass hound.
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post #830 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 12:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Describing the difference between the 1096 and 1099 is difficult. It seems odd to me to say its an $80 difference. Cause if this was a commercial product it's be a $500 difference. So I think of it as a 30% difference in price. "Downgrading" to the 1096 keeps the detail, clarity, imaging, etc as is expected out of the mids and tweeter. The lower midrange and upper bass is what changes. And that change is 3db from 80 to 600hz in the words of an engineer. In the subjective sense, it's going to be a little leaner (not as full), not take quite the hammering the 99 does. It also doesn't have the vertical directivity of the 99, which is quite nice.

My comments on the differences back when I evaluated them are back in this thread somewhere. They were brief but I was surprised how similar they are. The biggest thing was it just couldn't quite breeze through complex bass the way the 99 could. It's was much more subtle than I expected. The fact that the same XO worked was really sweet. Or I'm not sure we'd be having this conversation. I would have still done it. But Erich would have had to stock essentially two different speakers, that are essentially the same speaker. Doesn't make sense. So that was nice.

If I had to pick, no question the 1099 is better. But if the space constraints dictate, then its a very flexible speaker for narrower center, shorter, cheaper, etc.
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post #831 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 01:05 PM
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Tux,
If you are able to bring the 1099 to joes gtg could we run it for a little while with the top woofer unplugged? Then I could hear the difference. To get the 1099 waveguide at ear level the top of the speaker would be like 54" off the ground. Sticking it between the sub and gear 15" taller , I don't know...
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post #832 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

Tux,
If you are able to bring the 1099 to joes gtg could we run it for a little while with the top woofer unplugged? Then I could hear the difference. To get the 1099 waveguide at ear level the top of the speaker would be like 54" off the ground. Sticking it between the sub and gear 15" taller , I don't know...

You can't cause it's a 16ohm woofer and would probably sound destroyed.


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8x subs: 4x FTW21's and 4x SI18's
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post #833 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 01:28 PM
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OK, thanks
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post #834 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 02:15 PM
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Ya, I'll be doing the same, building 3 stands, with the center angled upwards of course.
Hard to see but my center is angled upwards.

Re: the subs, I have a little more than you think.
Those, in the front, are the SI18's but I also have 2 SI18's in the back with 4 FTW-21's in the back too! biggrin.gif

Here's what it looks like the back view taken from the front.


To put the picture in perspective the center seat is 5ft 6in from the back wall and 11ft from the front wall. tongue.gif

Most of the subs/speakers in your pics I couldn't move by myself lol. I'm sure some weigh more than me lol.

I'd live in that room if I could frown.gif
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post #835 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post

I've placed them on my former surrounds to lift them a little off the front stage floor. They were too high on top of the subs.
The CD is a little over ear height when I'm sitting and they sound even better now!.

Try what I'm trying, put them on the subs but flip the 1099 so that the CD is below the mids smile.gif

I'm also debating if I want to use a color swatch to match the blue in the woofers, and then get a custom duratex to match that blue....
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post #836 of 2061 Old 05-24-2014, 05:34 PM
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Try what I'm trying, put them on the subs but flip the 1099 so that the CD is below the mids smile.gif

I did try that...did not like the look.
I had also flipped the center to match the look.
It just didn't do it for me.
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Most of the subs/speakers in your pics I couldn't move by myself lol. I'm sure some weigh more than me lol.

I'd live in that room if I could frown.gif

I'm pretty sure you can pickup my fusion 8's biggrin.gif
Maybe not the 21's but I doubt you weigh less unless you're a little person? (Is this right to say?)

I'm lucky that I can pickup my 21's and move them around...and I'm NOT saying it's easy!
They are fine where they are.

Ok now off to watch "Metallica Through The Never in 3D" as I hear it pounds like crazy in the bass department and is well recorded. biggrin.gif
I NEVER listen to this kind of music...NEVER!, but a mans gotta do what mans gotta do for bass. biggrin.gif

So see you all later. wink.gif


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Equipment Speakers:
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4x Fusion 8's for surround duty
8x subs: 4x FTW21's and 4x SI18's
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post #837 of 2061 Old 05-25-2014, 05:50 AM
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Ok now off to watch "Metallica Through The Never in 3D" as I hear it pounds like crazy in the bass department and is well recorded. biggrin.gif
I NEVER listen to this kind of music...NEVER!, but a mans gotta do what mans gotta do for bass. biggrin.gif

So see you all later. wink.gif

If you can get a hold of it, check out Blue Man Group - The Complex Rock Tour Live (2003). DVD/DVD-A (well, mine is)
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post #838 of 2061 Old 05-25-2014, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony_Gomez View Post

If you can get a hold of it, check out Blue Man Group - The Complex Rock Tour Live (2003). DVD/DVD-A (well, mine is)

I have "Blue Man Group - How To Be A Megastar Live" on Blu...in fact I have lots of live Bluray Discs.
I love watching live shows.

My fav is "Saga Spin It Again Live In Munich"... it has some awesome bass in it plus I've always loved the band.
If you wanna see something really different, get Animusic 2, that is some pretty cool videos.

BTW, Metallica was pretty intense...I thought the bassist "WAS" the devil. Not my kind of music at all.
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post #839 of 2061 Old 05-29-2014, 03:11 PM
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The elusive is back up on diysg Web page. Just placed my order of 3. Good luck to those hunting for them!
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post #840 of 2061 Old 05-29-2014, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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