A 3 way 99db multi configurable SEOS design - Page 38 - AVS Forum
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post #1111 of 2339 Old 07-15-2014, 12:17 PM
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A 3 way 99db multi configurable SEOS design




Not really, I've had pretty good luck with MDF myself but my subs do have a layer of 1/2" ply as the inner (3rd layer) baffle.
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post #1112 of 2339 Old 07-15-2014, 12:21 PM
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Lol
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post #1113 of 2339 Old 07-15-2014, 12:41 PM
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Secret to screws in MDF is no predrill, and go slow. Works 99% of time.
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post #1114 of 2339 Old 07-15-2014, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post
Mike, my apology in advance for my reply here...nothing personal.

I completely disagree and I do based on personal experience.
I'm going on 2 years having my 21's built and I rotate my subs every 6 months (180 degrees) and have been using the same screws and same screw holes since.
My front cabs wall are double baffled and have 0 problems.
I blast the crap out of my subs EVERY day and I check the screws periodically to make sure they are tight!
Yes I'm anal about tightness

I have never had a screw loosen up or anything.
I screw using a very powerful drill until the bit skips. That's how tight it's in. I can't even overdrive the bit in !

Again this is my personal experience...big screws on MDF gives me no problems whatsoever.
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Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
I too have had no problems with wood screws into MDF, going on two years on my LMS-R now. Everything I've ever built I've used wood screws and MDF. I don't doubt the MDF holds worse than ply though. And I imagine in a few years I'll have to rotate the subs and make new holes.
Screwing into the face of MDF has the strongest holding power, vs end grain, but still not a good recommended practice. Will it work, yes, but not all the time. Very easy to strip out the MDF. This is not just my opinion. It is pretty common knowledge, that screws into MDF do not hold near as well as screwing into the same thickness of plywood or any solid hard wood. But as I said, it will work, just not the recommended practice. The use of MDF is why some people with large heavy drivers have problems getting their drivers to seal. They end up not using the rubber gasket and use compressible foam sealing tape. Use plywood for the inner baffle and the rubber driver gasket works fine.

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post #1115 of 2339 Old 07-15-2014, 04:50 PM
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post #1116 of 2339 Old 07-15-2014, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cw5billwade View Post
lol, good catch!
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post #1117 of 2339 Old 07-16-2014, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
Secret to screws in MDF is no predrill, and go slow. Works 99% of time.
I predrill a small hole to prevent cracking ex: 3/32 for a #8 screw and I use deep thread screws, not the regular wood one.

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post #1118 of 2339 Old 07-16-2014, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Devil 24 View Post
I predrill a small hole to prevent cracking ex: 3/32 for a #8 screw and I use deep thread screws, not the regular wood one.
yup if your putting it in the end of the piece. the only screws I use now on my build are securing the driver
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post #1119 of 2339 Old 07-16-2014, 03:14 PM
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I'm talking for the driver, I don't use screws anywhere else either.

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post #1120 of 2339 Old 07-17-2014, 04:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Devil 24 View Post
I predrill a small hole to prevent cracking ex: 3/32 for a #8 screw and I use deep thread screws, not the regular wood one.
Yes, RD...my practice when mounting drivers as well.

This topic definitely seems to be one of those po-tay-to versus po-tah-to things, eh?...
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post #1121 of 2339 Old 07-17-2014, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Devil 24 View Post
I'm talking for the driver, I don't use screws anywhere else either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Devil 24 View Post
I predrill a small hole to prevent cracking ex: 3/32 for a #8 screw and I use deep thread screws, not the regular wood one.
Same deal here. I glue the enclosures and don't use screws. I've never had a screw back out from holding a driver in use either. Then again, I dont have 80lb 18's.
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post #1122 of 2339 Old 07-17-2014, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Nice theatre.

Maybe I'm not understanding. I thought you were gonna cut up the baffle and put the woofer below the frame and the rest of the speaker above it, behind the screen.

The 1099 should sound just fine upside down. Maybe I'll give it a try tonight.
hey tux I am coming back to this so you were saying build the 1099 with the bottom woofer 6" below the mids then split the screen frame with the woofer below and mids tweeter and woffer above? Would that work and how would it effect the sound?
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post #1123 of 2339 Old 07-17-2014, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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No, I thought that's what you were saying. I wouldn't do it that way. The screen frame will act as a diffraction source (bad) and it'll increase the CTC spacing between drivers (bad). Not to mention you'd have to do surgery on the baffle. I'd just flip the speaker upside down or what ever it was you were planning.
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post #1124 of 2339 Old 07-17-2014, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
Secret to screws in MDF is no predrill, and go slow. Works 99% of time.
I surprisingly only had trouble mounting 1 threaded insert into my predilled holed instead of directly into MDF. Predill, then using a hex screwdriver to put the threaded insert in manually wasn't bad. I just coated the threaded insert with gorilla glue first and I was good to go. Working the threaded insert in with a screwdriver I wasn't successful on the first but then the second went horribly wrong, then I did the next by hand and realized that it's just safer to do it that way lol.

Edit: I finally look like I might be able to afford the Tux 1099 and now I just don't have a place capable of actually listening to such a beastly speaker. It hurts

Last edited by tential; 07-17-2014 at 12:01 PM.
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post #1125 of 2339 Old 07-18-2014, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Devil 24 View Post
I predrill a small hole to prevent cracking ex: 3/32 for a #8 screw and I use deep thread screws, not the regular wood one.
Truss head
http://www.parts-express.com/8-x-1-phillips-truss-head-screws-100-pcs--081-490

or pan head?
http://www.parts-express.com/8-x-1-deep-thread-pan-head-screws-black-100-pcs--081-425
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post #1126 of 2339 Old 07-18-2014, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
No, I thought that's what you were saying. I wouldn't do it that way. The screen frame will act as a diffraction source (bad) and it'll increase the CTC spacing between drivers (bad). Not to mention you'd have to do surgery on the baffle. I'd just flip the speaker upside down or what ever it was you were planning.
will a 1/4" feamle disconect crimp terminal work on all the speakers? http://www.parts-express.com/1-4-(16...0-pcs--095-280
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post #1127 of 2339 Old 07-18-2014, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatshaft View Post
I'm going on 2 years having my 21's built and I rotate my subs every 6 months (180 degrees) and have been using the same screws and same screw holes since.
I've never heard of this. Is it common practice to rotate subs in the cabinet? Or is it just recommended for extremely large subs?
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post #1128 of 2339 Old 07-21-2014, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post


In the mid section, put a nice wad in there. Keep if a couple inches away from the drivers, but fill 'er up without packing it tightly.

Hopefully that makes sense.
I'm concerned about stuffing the mid section tight enough that it won't so it won't shift over time and encroach on the drivers. Then again I've never done this before. The cabinets aren't quite done yet and I just want to make sure I have the right stuff on hand. Is it OK to line the mid section with insulation or is it preferable to use polyfill?
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post #1129 of 2339 Old 07-21-2014, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi Scientist. Fibreglass insulation or polyfill is fine.

If in doubt, use less that I described. It's important to at least have the walls covered. But if you can't fluff any up without it falling onto the drivers or something, I'd just use less. It's hard to screw up actually.
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post #1130 of 2339 Old 07-21-2014, 11:03 AM
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Thanks Tux. I'll use your guidelines and otherwise just sort of wing it. Hopefully I'll be listening withing a week! My old system is now in a much bigger room and it's no longer cutting it.
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post #1131 of 2339 Old 07-21-2014, 11:54 AM
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Hey Tux,

Have you done any polar measurements on the 1099 you can post (or if you already did, can you give a link)? I have to figure out rear channels for my setup at some point, Synergies are a bit large for rear channels in any room I can afford!
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post #1132 of 2339 Old 07-21-2014, 12:12 PM
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Is anyone tempted to do the resistor change tux talked about in the Vancouver thread? It's to smooth the highs out a little. Curious if anyone else caught that there
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post #1133 of 2339 Old 07-21-2014, 12:19 PM
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Darn my WAF the big foot was there all week and when I got the go ahead it was gone. I guess all the results from the gtg did that. I blame my self really I should have just bought them Erick what part is it now that we must wait for and PM me when you have it.
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post #1134 of 2339 Old 07-21-2014, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post
Is anyone tempted to do the resistor change tux talked about in the Vancouver thread? It's to smooth the highs out a little. Curious if anyone else caught that there
I picked up on that. For me, at least just based on how the center channel sounds, I think I'll be sticking with the original resistors. I love how this thing really sizzles! It's especially noticeable compared to the Volt-10s I'm using as fronts for now.
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post #1135 of 2339 Old 07-21-2014, 12:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwaslo View Post
Hey Tux,

Have you done any polar measurements on the 1099 you can post (or if you already did, can you give a link)? I have to figure out rear channels for my setup at some point, Synergies are a bit large for rear channels in any room I can afford!
On the first post I showed circle polars.

I took some of the speaker upright while working on the design, but I didn't label them well and I'm not totally sure which is which. I'd have to take another look.

They lose directivity below about 700hz. Even that's generous. More like 1khz. Cause they're narrow. As you know. The mids were the tricky part to get right for the polars.

I thought you weren't into surround? And I thought you'd roll your own. Big surround man!
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post #1136 of 2339 Old 07-21-2014, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by cw5billwade View Post
Darn my WAF the big foot was there all week and when I got the go ahead it was gone. I guess all the results from the gtg did that. I blame my self really I should have just bought them Erick what part is it now that we must wait for and PM me when you have it.
It sure stinks to wait but it will be totally worth it! They will come back before too long. No worries! I've been looking at the blank baffles for my fronts for 3 or 4 months now.
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post #1137 of 2339 Old 07-21-2014, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtsdig View Post
I picked up on that. For me, at least just based on how the center channel sounds, I think I'll be sticking with the original resistors. I love how this thing really sizzles! It's especially noticeable compared to the Volt-10s I'm using as fronts for now.
Yeah I don't have enough time in with mine yet to even consider a change. I love the sound they have a don't want to change anything yet.

It will be interesting to see how people like the change. I'll be paying attention for sure though.
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post #1138 of 2339 Old 07-21-2014, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbyrnes View Post
Is anyone tempted to do the resistor change tux talked about in the Vancouver thread? It's to smooth the highs out a little. Curious if anyone else caught that there
I haven't made the details known yet. Will soon. If you wanted to do it, you'll need this: http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...sistor--004-10

I'll tell you what to do with it in a day or two. The kit won't change unless most people feel this is an improvement. Maybe Erich could include it and people could decide. But I don't think the feedback warranted a fixed change. The change will just shave about 1.5db off the 2 to 6khz range which is where "brightness" usually comes from, and also about 1db from 6khz and up. If using an AT screen, I'd certainly stick to the original. The feedback was mixed. Just like dtsdig said. Some liked the forward sound. Others said only minor complaint was brightness. So now people can choose which side of the fence they're on.

Erich mentioned emailing everyone who has purchased the kit to tell them about the option. So I'll put together something a little more explanatory first and if you bought the kit, you might get that email. I'm not sure how much work it is to do all that emailing though, so we'll see. Most people at least lurk this thread if they have a pair I think.
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post #1139 of 2339 Old 07-21-2014, 01:00 PM
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I will try the original in my room to start. I only noticed the brightness on the super 8 crash scene. When the train comes off the tracks it made me wince a little. The other speakers didn't do that. I won't know until I have them in my room. I think it would need just a little eq which I can do easily with my preamp. I don't want to lose that great guitar and drum snap so I will be eqing just a bit. Maybe in my room I won't eq at all. Just don't know until I have them.

I only heard the 1099 for 40 minutes or so. Will have to see whats its like when i listen for 3 hours. Can't wait for that
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post #1140 of 2339 Old 07-21-2014, 01:04 PM
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I haven't found them to be bright yet. Funny thing is I hate bright speakers, lol. Klipsch, Polk, etc are not to my liking at all.

I may do it down the road just to see. Why not try to improve them for little investment? Worst case I go back to the original design.
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