A 3 way 99db multi configurable SEOS design - Page 49 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 08-07-2014, 10:56 AM
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I'm curious about this speaker now.
Has anyone heard both the 1099 and like a Tempest?
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Old 08-07-2014, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
but 12's aren't as cool as 15's

Do you know the equation for calculating the frequency nulls based on woofer spacing, degree off axis and distance from speaker?
Trigonometry and half wavelength. But the real world results will differ.
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Old 08-07-2014, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Electric Wiz View Post
I'm curious about this speaker now.
Has anyone heard both the 1099 and like a Tempest?
You can read about some comparisons here, for a GTG that I hosted where both speakers were present. You'll notice that some people weren't happy about the results of people's impressions, but it is what it is. Take everything with a grain of salt because how a speaker sounds to someone is very subjective.
Vancouver Summertime GTG Results
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Old 08-07-2014, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post
A 1599 or 1299 sounds very cool. I like the way you guys are thinking.
I drew up the "1299" about a year before the 1099 was considered because I already had the waveguide. It was going to be the speaker done immediately after the Fusion-12 and Alpha-12, but Jeff was busy with other things at the time.

The 3 ways weren't going to happen until the 2 way Alpha's were done. But Tux and I couldn't find any good 10" woofers that made the Alpha a decent amount better, so it was passed over to do the 10" 3 way.

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Old 08-07-2014, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
You can read about some comparisons here, for a GTG that I hosted where both speakers were present. You'll notice that some people weren't happy about the results of people's impressions, but it is what it is. Take everything with a grain of salt because how a speaker sounds to someone is very subjective.
Vancouver Summertime GTG Results
Right on! Thanks!
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Old 08-07-2014, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
I drew up the "1299" about a year before the 1099 was considered because I already had the waveguide. It was going to be the speaker done immediately after the Fusion-12 and Alpha-12, but Jeff was busy with other things at the time.

The 3 ways weren't going to happen until the 2 way Alpha's were done. But Tux and I couldn't find any good 10" woofers that made the Alpha a decent amount better, so it was passed over to do the 10" 3 way.
Is there any plans currently in the works or projects on the horizon that would be a big brother to the 1099 ?

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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Old 08-07-2014, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
I drew up the "1299" about a year before the 1099 was considered because I already had the waveguide. It was going to be the speaker done immediately after the Fusion-12 and Alpha-12, but Jeff was busy with other things at the time.

The 3 ways weren't going to happen until the 2 way Alpha's were done. But Tux and I couldn't find any good 10" woofers that made the Alpha a decent amount better, so it was passed over to do the 10" 3 way.
Cool. It's safe to say your development was a success! For what it's worth I enjoyed the 1099s quite a bit last weekend.

BTW meant to ask you - do you happen to have DXFs (or simlilar) for the different waveguides?
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Old 08-07-2014, 02:05 PM
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One of my speakers is completely put together now. Should the mids have visible movement when they're playing? I'm trying to figure out if everything is working right
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Old 08-07-2014, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
I drew up the "1299" about a year before the 1099 was considered because I already had the waveguide. It was going to be the speaker done immediately after the Fusion-12 and Alpha-12, but Jeff was busy with other things at the time.

The 3 ways weren't going to happen until the 2 way Alpha's were done. But Tux and I couldn't find any good 10" woofers that made the Alpha a decent amount better, so it was passed over to do the 10" 3 way.
You didn't mention that to me. I thought we were trying to make center channels for people and wanted to showcase the SEOS 10. You kept pushing for horizontal MTMs and I wouldn't do it I even recall you saying people just aren't that picky, just data freaks like that tux guy

I will mention the side by side mids wasn't my idea. That started with Bill W and his Malcolm I believe. That was a well thought out design concept with the shaded capacitors. Very elegant design.
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Old 08-07-2014, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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One of my speakers is completely put together now. Should the mids have visible movement when they're playing? I'm trying to figure out if everything is working right
Not unless you're pushing a kilowatt into them! How loud? How much movement?
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Old 08-07-2014, 03:42 PM
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Not unless you're pushing a kilowatt into them! How loud? How much movement?
All right good. Only 80-85dB. I'm trying to keep the volume low until I know for sure everything is connected correctly. I'm sure if there was a major mistake that it would be very obvious
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Old 08-07-2014, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
You didn't mention that to me. I thought we were trying to make center channels for people and wanted to showcase the SEOS 10. You kept pushing for horizontal MTMs and I wouldn't do it I even recall you saying people just aren't that picky, just data freaks like that tux guy

I will mention the side by side mids wasn't my idea. That started with Bill W and his Malcolm I believe. That was a well thought out design concept with the shaded capacitors. Very elegant design.

I don't mention every idea to everyone......you guys would eventually put me on the ignore list. You get a percentage to make fun of, Bill does, Matt does, Jeff does, etc. Trust me, if there's a way to draw a speaker, especially using the waveguides, it's been done in every possible layout one can imagine. Sometimes I get 'that won't work', or 'hey, that might work, let's try it'. If I stopped after "that's just plain stupid", things wouldn't be very exciting!


Center channels were certainly the biggest concern and I was trying to figure out what to do without understanding the physics involved. After you explained why horizontal MTM's with big woofers wouldn't work and the crossover frequency needed, it was back to the drawing board. All the discussions help lead to different ideas. When you explained the woofers were too big, I drew smaller woofers, which eventually led to the Quad 4. Then we started talking about the 3 ways. I was just hoping to stay away from those for a while due to costs.

Bwaslo was at the shop about 2 years ago when we were discussing using dual sealed back midranges under the SEOS-12 flanked by 12" woofers ("1299" style). I cut the baffles, sent a photo to Jeff letting him know how nuts things could be. But as mentioned he had just finished the Fusion-12 and Alpha-12, so it was put on hold. Truth be told, Jeff probably just thought I was nuts!

Actually, I think MTG90 takes the cake on the dual woofers under the waveguide because he had one done before the plastic SEOS was even here. I think they used Peerless 6.5" woofers. Bwaslo had the 4 smaller mids idea and it was really good, but the crossover cost twice as much as all the mids combined and the price would have been more than the Tempest.....meaning no one back then would have built it.

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Old 08-07-2014, 04:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh ya I now remember Matt did that dual peerless thing. Was clever how he used the narrow framed peerless woofers.

Max mercy also helped guide the design of the 1099. Only problem was the size of the mid. Needed to be smaller. But then no directivity. So needed two. Thus, here we are today

I remember cost was a concern for both of us. Then people started screaming for high end kits and you were like, screw it, do it.
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Old 08-07-2014, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
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I will mention the side by side mids wasn't my idea. That started with Bill W and his Malcolm I believe. That was a well thought out design concept with the shaded capacitors. Very elegant design.
Can you explain? I appreciate getting the background on a design.
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Old 08-07-2014, 04:49 PM - Thread Starter
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He did a design with a SEOS 12 and two 6" mids under it. Then added two more that kicked in around 200hz. Its on diysoundgroup's forum. Pretty slick.
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Old 08-07-2014, 05:31 PM
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88 with dual 15's sounds awesome. Great upgrade path. And the 1299 sounds like another awesome idea.
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
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In a way, it's an upgrade path for any of the kits. Some make more sense than others though. I've recommended it to a few people who are looking for more bass.

I've wanted to make a speaker that is an 8" MTM with a 100hz sealed F3 that you can add a dual 10" module to later. All passive though. Just plug the lower module in line with the speaker cord. The low pass for the woofers and high pass for the 8" (now mids) would be housed in the module. Then there would be a swith on the back of the MTM to toggle the tweeter level up and down. I've played around and the idea works. Finding the right drivers is the hard part.
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:26 PM
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Where are people putting the xo in the cab ? In the middle, side. If it's in middle I assume I drill a hole just big enough to push wire through the mid support walls to the woofers ? Then seal up the hole.
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Old 08-07-2014, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
In a way, it's an upgrade path for any of the kits. Some make more sense than others though. I've recommended it to a few people who are looking for more bass.

I've wanted to make a speaker that is an 8" MTM with a 100hz sealed F3 that you can add a dual 10" module to later. All passive though. Just plug the lower module in line with the speaker cord. The low pass for the woofers and high pass for the 8" (now mids) would be housed in the module. Then there would be a swith on the back of the MTM to toggle the tweeter level up and down. I've played around and the idea works. Finding the right drivers is the hard part.
I like the way you think Ryan!...lol
Let me know when you need financing for this project!..
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:50 PM
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Where are people putting the xo in the cab ? In the middle, side. If it's in middle I assume I drill a hole just big enough to push wire through the mid support walls to the woofers ? Then seal up the hole.
I used those push binding connector things in the cab to separate the compartments
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
He did a design with a SEOS 12 and two 6" mids under it. Then added two more that kicked in around 200hz. Its on diysoundgroup's forum. Pretty slick.
OK, thanks. I found the thread here. Yeah, pretty slick.
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Old 08-08-2014, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
Where are people putting the xo in the cab ? In the middle, side. If it's in middle I assume I drill a hole just big enough to push wire through the mid support walls to the woofers ? Then seal up the hole.
Yep, mine is in the middle with holes just large enough for speaker wire drilled through the dividers and then sealed up.
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Old 08-08-2014, 12:19 PM
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I just finished running Audyssey, now that I have all three 1099's in there final resting place and have a few questions. First off I have a Denon 4311ci and after running Audyssey through all 8 positions, it set the 1099's to small and set the crossover for the L/R at 100, while it cross's the center at 60, would this be ok to leave it or do I set the crossover at 80 for all speakers? It also set the front wide ( Ascend 170's) at 60 crossover, while setting the crossover for the surrounds and rears at 40.


I did run a few sweeps in REW and those graphs look with Audyssey to be about correct in the crossover but thought I would post to see if anyone has better thoughts.

The Elusive 1099 (L/C/R)---DIY Volt 10 (surrounds 9.4)---SVS PB 12 Plus---SVS PC 12 Plus---2 DIY 18's sealed--AVR Denon 4311CI---Emotiva Xpa-3---Behringer Nu6000DSP iNuke---TV Vizio 70---110" Motorized Screen---Epson 8350 Projector---Unraid 32TB Network Storage---Gateway SX 2370 HTPC with 120 SSD

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Old 08-08-2014, 12:31 PM
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Personally I would set all at 80 if you have good subs.
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:02 PM
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Old 08-08-2014, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like audessay made your 45 and 65 worse! That might be because different places are measured.
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Old 08-08-2014, 08:31 PM
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Tux ,
What do you have for processor ? Avr or dedicated prepro. I had denon avr for years with audyssey and last year have emotiva processor with manual peq. Much prefer being able to choose and see what eq is applied.
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Old 08-09-2014, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I have an aventage Yamaha. Can't remember... RX-A700 or something like that. It has pre-outs and manual PEQ, that's why I bought it. So ya, I'm like you, much prefer to have control over what it does.

Didn't realize until after I bought it, but mine doesn't have PEQ for the subs. But that's ok cause I use outboard dsp there. So I use the receiver to PEQ my speakers.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:34 PM
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Important 1099 update:

There have been a decent number of people asking when the 1099 will be back up on the site and worried they won't be able to get them before the buy out midranges are completely gone. Obviously once those disappear, the 1099 as we know it will be gone as well.


I know I said this wasn't going to happen, but I've changed my mind due to the number of people asking. I'm going to count up the number of midranges I have left and set up a "preorder/group buy" kind of thing. That way people can be sure to get on the list before they are gone.

But of course, things get a bit more interesting than that. One reason the 1099's don't stay in stock for very long is because it's hard to buy enough woofers when 15 speakers need 30 woofers. Not many retailers keep that many in stock. So I talked to Eminence last month and they'll help us out. The guy I talked to really likes how these SEOS waveguide projects are going. Just for the heck of it, I said some people aren't fans of the blue cone on the woofer, would it be possible to get black cones? Guess what? He said they would do it! They sent me two samples a little while ago and one of the speaker designers tested them against the blue coned model. They were a 100% dead on match.

So here's what I think we can do. I'll count up how many midranges I have left and set up the preorder. It will only be for a fraction of the kit cost. There will be an option for the blue cone, or the black cone. I'll start hunting for 1099 crossover parts, and testing compression drivers so that when things come in, we're good to go.

This seems like a good idea to me so that AVS members can be sure to get them before they're gone. If anyone has a better idea, let me know.

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Old 08-11-2014, 08:43 PM
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How do you want people to get on preorder list ? Do we need to put a deposit down ? Do we pm you here ?
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