A 3 way 99db multi configurable SEOS design - Page 52 - AVS Forum
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post #1531 of 1898 Old 08-16-2014, 10:25 PM
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Got my order for 5 in.
Five , wow . You listen to a lot of multichannel music ? That will be impressive
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post #1532 of 1898 Old 08-16-2014, 10:40 PM
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Five , wow . You listen to a lot of multichannel music ? That will be impressive
These will be going into the main theater, that uses both wide and height speakers, in addition to LCR. I'm gonna have to order some surround and height speakers as well, but I wanted to get the main front stage done first.

These will be FL-Wide, FL, C, FR, FR-Wide.

The entire setup is driven by a Denon 4311ci, and a couple of pro-amps.

I giggled like a lil schoolgirl after placing the order. Seriously.
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post #1533 of 1898 Old 08-16-2014, 10:42 PM
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For the guys that have already received there 1099's and are listening to them, put a review up on them on the order page to help spread the word.

Tux's Elusive 1099 (L/C/R)---Ascend CBM-170 SE (surrounds 9.2)---SVS PB 12 Plus---SVS PC 12 Plus---AVR Denon 4311CI---TV Vizio 70---Unraid 32TB Network Storage---Gateway SX 2370 HTPC with 120 SSD
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post #1534 of 1898 Old 08-16-2014, 10:44 PM
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Anyone know if there is an option to have the 1099 crossover preassembled? I haven't soldered anything since grad school.

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post #1535 of 1898 Old 08-16-2014, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by kapone View Post
These will be going into the main theater, that uses both wide and height speakers, in addition to LCR. I'm gonna have to order some surround and height speakers as well, but I wanted to get the main front stage done first.

These will be FL-Wide, FL, C, FR, FR-Wide.

The entire setup is driven by a Denon 4311ci, and a couple of pro-amps.

I giggled like a lil schoolgirl after placing the order. Seriously.

Interesting. What kind of spacing are you looking at for the front wides? I am thinking that with L/C/R 1099's I will get rid of the wides and just go with heights.

Tux's Elusive 1099 (L/C/R)---Ascend CBM-170 SE (surrounds 9.2)---SVS PB 12 Plus---SVS PC 12 Plus---AVR Denon 4311CI---TV Vizio 70---Unraid 32TB Network Storage---Gateway SX 2370 HTPC with 120 SSD
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post #1536 of 1898 Old 08-16-2014, 10:57 PM
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Interesting. What kind of spacing are you looking at for the front wides? I am thinking that with L/C/R 1099's I will get rid of the wides and just go with heights.
I'm not going to be able to use them "effectively" just yet, since the house we're building is not complete yet and the current house is not that big (the basement's about 1000sqft). The completion date for the new house is first Q next year. In the new house, the finished part of the basement is 3000 sq ft... With the design I have in mind, it'll be either a 120" screen or may be even a 135", enough space to spread out the speakers.

The basement in the new house is really just a big wet bar, and a big space centered around the theater. It's not a "closed" type theater, but more of an open concept. I'm planning sixteen 15" subs, already have the drivers sitting in storage. Erich's gonna get an order for sixteen 3cuft boxes as soon as we move in.

However, by then the "elusive" 1099s may become the "once upon a time, there was the 1099"...and I didn't want to risk that.
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post #1537 of 1898 Old 08-16-2014, 11:00 PM
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Anyone know if there is an option to have the 1099 crossover preassembled? I have soldered anything since grad school.
Pm Robert Jones II avs member.
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post #1538 of 1898 Old 08-16-2014, 11:01 PM
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I'm not going to be able to use them "effectively" just yet, since the house we're building is not complete yet and the current house is not that big (the basement's about 1000sqft). The completion date for the new house is first Q next year. In the new house, the finished part of the basement is 3000 sq ft... With the design I have in mind, it'll be either a 120" screen or may be even a 135", enough space to spread out the speakers.

The basement in the new house is really just a big wet bar, and a big space centered around the theater. It's not a "closed" type theater, but more of an open concept. I'm planning sixteen 15" subs, already have the drivers sitting in storage. Erich's gonna get an order for sixteen 3cuft boxes as soon as we move in.

However, by then the "elusive" 1099s may become the "once upon a time, there was the 1099"...and I didn't want to risk that.
Only sixteen
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post #1539 of 1898 Old 08-16-2014, 11:52 PM
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ok I order 3 of them for LCR's. I'm debating if I should I order at least 2 more for a full 5 channel setup or should I just go with Volts for the remaining surround channels?

Other than the 2 main rear channels (and that's debatable sometimes) it doesn't seem like there's really all that much information in the rest of the surrounds.
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post #1540 of 1898 Old 08-16-2014, 11:59 PM
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Yikes, look at my crossover wiring before considering PMing me The Exclusive 1099

If you have any experience you'll be fine. My only prior soldering experience was a cheap "piano" kit that I bought at Radio Shack. To me the hardest part was the layout and I borrowed that from @dtsdig . I made a diagram that you can use for reference, attached here:

The Exclusive 1099

AVS member @cw5billwade actually printed the diagram out and overlaid it onto his board for target practice (or soldering):
Bills Elusive 1099 build (if I can nab 3)
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post #1541 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 12:05 AM
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You could do it easily , working correctly. Buy some nice 1/4" mdf and your ready to go. You da man
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post #1542 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 12:13 AM
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ok I order 3 of them for LCR's. I'm debating if I should I order at least 2 more for a full 5 channel setup or should I just go with Volts for the remaining surround channels?

Other than the 2 main rear channels (and that's debatable sometimes) it doesn't seem like there's really all that much information in the rest of the surrounds.
If you have the space then go ahead but other wise Tux had stated that the Fusion 10 would be a perfect match to the 1099's only a smaller foot print. The 1099's are by no means a small wall hanger. Me, personally do not have the space for either as surround duty and will be going to the Volts.

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post #1543 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 06:40 AM
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Looks like I'm going to be busy packing things up soon. Luckily I only have one bigger commercial landscaping job scheduled between now and when everything comes in, and that gets done next week. So things shouldn't be too terribly difficult.


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Twelve 10" NHT subwoofer build.
Cloning of a NHT VR-3.
2 ACI 15" subwoofers.

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post #1544 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post
These will be going into the main theater, that uses both wide and height speakers, in addition to LCR. I'm gonna have to order some surround and height speakers as well, but I wanted to get the main front stage done first.

These will be FL-Wide, FL, C, FR, FR-Wide.

The entire setup is driven by a Denon 4311ci, and a couple of pro-amps.

I giggled like a lil schoolgirl after placing the order. Seriously.

That would be optimal. If you are going to run wides, it is best if the wides are identical to the LCR's. I had read this several times in the past, and had heard wides used several times before, but never got to experience a true matching LCR -+ L/R Sides until recently.

I have a buddy that has a basement layout similar to yours, ie: open floor plan with loads of space to cover. He is using Wayne Parhams 4pi for his LCR + L/R Wides. It really blew me away how awesome & immersive the soundstage was. It also reminded me of the envelopment that you get with bipolar speakers from the likes of Def Tech, only way more clear/detailed, and much better SQ overall.

Let me give you some advice on the sixteen 15" subs that you are going to use. With a room that big, you really should take a look at ported subs. Without knowing which 15" driver you purchased, I can not elaborate any further, just keep in mind that ported will have a significant amount of additional SPL around the tuning frequency.
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post #1545 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 07:17 AM
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Let me give you some advice on the sixteen 15" subs that you are going to use. With a room that big, you really should take a look at ported subs. Without knowing which 15" driver you purchased, I can not elaborate any further, just keep in mind that ported will have a significant amount of additional SPL around the tuning frequency.
I know. But I'm a sucker for sealed. It is what it is.

If the output aint enough, I'll either get different drivers or more drivers or whatever, but it's either sealed or IB, and there's no way to do IB in the new house.
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post #1546 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Lots of orders. Incredible. I didn't think there's be so many. I hope everyone enjoys them
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post #1547 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 08:12 AM
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Lots of orders. Incredible. I didn't think there's be so many. I hope everyone enjoys them
I think this is a great opportunity to thank you for creating this speaker!
I, for one, believe I am blessed and privileged to have these in my home and listening to them daily!

I also hope everyone else enjoys these as much as I do.
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Equipment Speakers:
3x 1099's for LCR duty
4x Fusion 8's for surround duty
8x subs: 4x FTW21's and 4x SI18's
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post #1548 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 08:39 AM
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Lots of orders. Incredible. I didn't think there's be so many. I hope everyone enjoys them
With such great reviews, I am looking forward to them, can hardly wait. Thanks for the creation!!


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post #1549 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 10:12 AM
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Tux ,
Is it hard to design the next speaker after you hit a home run or easier ?
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post #1550 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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It's harder I think. There's expectations. But I might design something that's not meant to be as good and that's tricky.
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post #1551 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 12:27 PM
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It's harder I think. There's expectations. But I might design something that's not meant to be as good and that's tricky.
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post #1552 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 06:27 PM
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It's harder I think. There's expectations. But I might design something that's not meant to be as good and that's tricky.
Could you design surrounds that are meant to go with the 1099s, or would your position be that something like the Fusion 10s voiced similarly enough that they would be the way to go?

I've been toying with the idea of designing a 2-way crossover as a first foray into speaker design, but (1) I have zero experience (just a bit of speaker design book reading), and (2) I don't know if I'd realistically have the time. I had been thinking about trying my hand at a 2-way design from before I was even aware of the 1099 project, but once I found out about your three-way design I realized that there was no way I would be able to accomplish anything reasonably close to what you had done (a big THANK YOU for contributing the design!). At some point in the near future (after I finish my 1099s and subs) maybe I'll look back into this again.
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post #1553 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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The Fusion 10 is THE surround speaker for these. The Volt 10 is the practical, but very good surround speaker for these. I speak about it in the FAQ.

One thing I'm really excited about with the whole SEOS thing is it seems many more people want to tackle XO design. I've lead to people in particular through the process, although they both had measurement gear and a healthy base of speaker knowledge. If I recall correctly it was Scott C and Gorilla. The first word of advice I have is: Start small and cheap. I can't over state this. The other alternative is re-design an existing design. That's what Scott did. He had a Bill W design that he re designed. He said if it didn't go well he can always use Bill's XO. Those two ways are the best way to start.

I've thought about doing a tutorial or something but frankly its a massive subject that's taken me years and years. How do I compress it all into a few posts? Impossible. I've answered hundreds of PM's about it, but usually quite specific questions. I've thought, maybe just the basics, without the high level "make really good speakers" type stuff. To get people going to make a speaker with a flat frequency response but forget talking about directivity, woofer break up, baffle step, etc.
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post #1554 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 07:42 PM
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Tux,
What about a full day speaker seminar ? We get together 5 to 10 local people and we all chip in to cover your ferry ride both ways. You cover the basics and we video tape it for people who can't come. Something like 10 to 3-4pm and then we all go out for dinner .

I'd be down for that.
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post #1555 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
The Fusion 10 is THE surround speaker for these. The Volt 10 is the practical, but very good surround speaker for these. I speak about it in the FAQ.
I read the FAQ when you first posted it, but apparently my memory is even worse than I thought it was. I'll go back through and re-read. Glad to hear that the Fusion 10 is THE surround.

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One thing I'm really excited about with the whole SEOS thing is it seems many more people want to tackle XO design. I've lead to people in particular through the process, although they both had measurement gear and a healthy base of speaker knowledge. If I recall correctly it was Scott C and Gorilla. The first word of advice I have is: Start small and cheap. I can't over state this. The other alternative is re-design an existing design. That's what Scott did. He had a Bill W design that he re designed. He said if it didn't go well he can always use Bill's XO. Those two ways are the best way to start.
There is something definitely inherently exciting about crossovers to me, and I think the 1099 in particular helped to develop the bug.

Re:start small and cheap, one thing I've always been kind of curious about is the fact that you use different components from those that are shipped with the kit. Are your components cheap parts used for testing, or how do they compare to the shipped parts?

I have some measurement gear and some basic crossovers knowledge from reading Introduction to Loudspeaker Design by John Murphy. It took be a little while to get to the point where I felt comfortable with the math for component reactance, but I think I have a much better handle on the math now than I did. I'm sure moving from theory to practice is a whole other ball game.

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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
I've thought about doing a tutorial or something but frankly its a massive subject that's taken me years and years. How do I compress it all into a few posts? Impossible. I've answered hundreds of PM's about it, but usually quite specific questions. I've thought, maybe just the basics, without the high level "make really good speakers" type stuff. To get people going to make a speaker with a flat frequency response but forget talking about directivity, woofer break up, baffle step, etc.
There do seem to be some good books on the subject of design. One thing that I would find fascinating from someone like yourself is a "Designer's Perspective." It would be really interesting to read about why you chose the components (values, component quality, brand) you chose for each of your designs, why the exact crossover points you chose, filters, etc.; and perhaps more interestingly: what assumptions did you make at the start of your design that ultimately changed; what mistakes did you make? With this type of information a would-be designer could really gain a level of insight into design that maybe a tutorial by itself wouldn't accomplish.

Thanks again for your hands-on contributions to the community.
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post #1556 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
Tux,
What about a full day speaker seminar ? We get together 5 to 10 local people and we all chip in to cover your ferry ride both ways. You cover the basics and we video tape it for people who can't come. Something like 10 to 3-4pm and then we all go out for dinner .

I'd be down for that.
I'm not local, but I would have to strongly consider flying in for something like that. Of course Donny has proven that he can put together a casual instructional video or two, so that may suffice. I'd definitely still chip in to cover the ferry ride regardless . If it's possible to goad you into something Ryan then I will begin the chant: semina seminar Seminar SEMINAR.
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post #1557 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Not sure you guys wanna learn from me. Haha. Jeff Bagby did a seminar like that. I think it was more how to use PCD though. I'm not sure what he taught or if there were videos.
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post #1558 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 09:06 PM
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Not sure you guys wanna learn from me. Haha. Jeff Bagby did a seminar like that. I think it was more how to use PCD though. I'm not sure what he taught or if there were videos.
I learn better seeing and doing then reading. Love to know what baffle step, and how to understand a waterfall plot. I think some of the guys at the gtg would be interested as well.
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post #1559 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 09:09 PM
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I was only able to get one functional this weekend. It took me forever to get everything hooked up. I made some huge assembly mistakes that I know to avoid on the next one.

I hooked up the single speaker. Something doesn't seem right. All the speakers are firing, but something just seems to me off. Maybe it's just that I'm only testing one speaker. Tomorrow I will see if the next one sounds the same.

I do have to say that I can't believe how incredibly clear voices are.

Side point.... There has to be a better way to mount the crossovers. Once it's in I hot glued the holes to each woofer box. Now the only way to get the crossover out is to disconnect at the terminal strips. That is a major pain and the reason the first took me so long. I had already glued the woofer holes so I had to connect the speakers to the terminal strip in the box. It took me forever to get the screws back into the strips.

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post #1560 of 1898 Old 08-17-2014, 11:18 PM
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I hooked up the single speaker. Something doesn't seem right. All the speakers are firing, but something just seems to me off. Maybe it's just that I'm only testing one speaker.
Don't judge the speakers before you have them in the box. I made that mistake and made myself very nervous. I ended up doing my first crossover 3 times because I only tested the speakers without putting them in the box and thought they sounded funny. I thought I had done something wrong or that wires were touching. Once I got them in the box, it was incredibly different.
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