A 3 way 99db multi configurable SEOS design - Page 53 - AVS Forum
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post #1561 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 01:32 AM
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The speaker I'm referring to is complete.

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post #1562 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 02:56 AM
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I would also definitely be up for a similar that is video recorded! I would do my absolute best to attend in person, and would be willing to pay for the time spent at the similar! Perhaps if several of us forum members chipped in say around $100 to $200 each, we could end up with something special that would benefit Tux, financially, and us, wrt crossover design!
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post #1563 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 08:17 AM - Thread Starter
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sslv2pwnd: What sounds off? Do you have XO pics?

All: I'm glad there's so much interest in this kind of learning, but really, organizing that kind of thing where enough people can attend who are actually interested, is tricky. I think Bagby lives in an area where there's a lot of people. Can't recall, but maybe the east coast somewhere. I actually enjoy giving presentations. I've done several for geotechnical engineering groups, but never about speaker design. So I'd certainly enjoy it. Next year I'd like to attend the Puget Sound DIY speaker competition. That's in Seattle. Perhaps if there were enough people interested we could do something there. Between Vancouver and Seattle and Oregon there's a lot of people to draw in.
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post #1564 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 09:12 AM
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I have the second speaker working now. It is much better.

Some observations...

- I cannot believe how incredibly loud these things are. While demoing an Adele CD, I was hitting 98db at -10 on the AVR.

- I am listening to flac files. New music such as Adele, sounds incredible. Older stuff like Aerosmith Big Ones doesn't sound that great. Rush 2112 was much better than Aerosmith, but not even close to Adele. My daughters Hunter Hayes CD sounds incredible too. Unfortunately most of my music is 70's, 80's and 90's.

- In my room, they are too harsh. However, so were my B&W's. I've added some sound treatment, but I think I need a lot more. I was listening without EQ / Audyssey and was wincing quite a bit while playing older music loud. I don't remember wincing as much while listening to Adele.

- I believe that they started sounding better after about an hour or so. It's like as they break in, they get better.

Here is the first crossover:

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post #1565 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 09:17 AM
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Lots of 70s and 80s music has been re-mastered and re-released. Many are a large sound quality improvement, so if you have CD's that you love but sound bad on good speakers, see if you can find a re-mastered one. Some people swear by the originals though and hate all re-masters.

To reduce harshness you can try lowering some of the 5 khz + bands in your music player or EQ a high shelf filter and take the trebles down a dB or two. This helps especially if you're fairly close to the speakers. And like you said, room treatment at first reflection points is really good for that too.
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post #1566 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 09:43 AM
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I wish Erich had a flat pack for "stands" for the 1099s as well. That would have been killer. A simple box 12.5" wide x 14.5" deep x 12-14" high, would make a perfect bottom stand for these.

Not that building such a stand is difficult at all, but since I ordered 5, and I intend to veneer them, I'll have to build 4 stands (the center doesn't need a stand) and veneer them as well, for a matching look. That equates to a lot more work, than if I was just veneering them. Erich?? You listening??

I'm thinking of going with one of the following veneers (in no particular order):

Ebony Mac QTR RCN EC



Bubinga Kevazinga



Padauk QTR



Rosewood PS RCN EC



Zebrawood PS

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post #1567 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post
I wish Erich had a flat pack for "stands" for the 1099s as well. That would have been killer. A simple box 12.5" wide x 14.5" deep x 12-14" high, would make a perfect bottom stand for these.

Not that building such a stand is difficult at all, but since I ordered 5, and I intend to veneer them, I'll have to build 4 stands (the center doesn't need a stand) and veneer them as well, for a matching look. That equates to a lot more work, than if I was just veneering them. Erich?? You listening??

I'm thinking of going with one of the following veneers (in no particular order):

Ebony Mac QTR RCN EC



Bubinga Kevazinga



Padauk QTR



Rosewood PS RCN EC



Zebrawood PS

All great choices.. I almost went with padauk.
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post #1568 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 10:19 AM
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Rosewood

If you're veneering, I would just make them into towers instead of stands. You just have to glue a piece of wood to the front baffle to extend it, and the seam will be covered by veneer. And you can just seal off the bottom part of the speaker to maintain the internal volume.
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post #1569 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 10:33 AM
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See, that's the whole point of separate stands. Who knows what may happen down the road, and I may not need to raise them? Having separate stands, gives me the flexibility to do either or, and I'm kinda digging the "separated" look between stand and speaker that will happen with a separate stand. And I don't really want to muck with the flat packs for the 1099s themselves. The least amount of work that I can get away with...

Depending on the veneer I choose, maybe even make the stands "black", to give the whole thing a two tone look.
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post #1570 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 10:39 AM
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Yep there's definitely advantages to separate stands especially if they're not going in a permanent location. I built stands for my Tempests for all the reasons you mentioned.

Also they're easier to move when separate.
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post #1571 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
Yep there's definitely advantages to separate stands especially if they're not going in a permanent location. I built stands for my Tempests for all the reasons you mentioned.

Also they're easier to move when separate.
I am stealling your idea I have my cinder blocks at the ready.
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post #1572 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 11:40 AM
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I'm torn. If I got an LCR 1099 set, I wouldn't be able to do anything with it for quite awhile. My wife and I are stuck in this current house for at least another two years while we're in school, and honestly, there's no room for speakers as large as the 1099s here. However, we're both sold on the idea of moving and getting/building something that supports a dedicated theater room. Is it worth while getting these now and keeping them in a box for possibly three years, or just revisit this idea later on and see what's available?


Also, this driver shortage that means the discontinuance of the 1099...does it affect the Fusion 10 as well?
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post #1573 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 12:00 PM
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Three years? I'd definitely just wait, that is a long time. The DIY offering's are only getting better. Fusion 10's aren't effected, it's the mids that aren't being made any more.
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post #1574 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 12:27 PM
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There will surely be other 3 way speakers done. They just won't be 100% like the 1099 and likely more expensive because of the closeout midrange used.
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post #1575 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sslv2pwned View Post
Side point.... There has to be a better way to mount the crossovers. Once it's in I hot glued the holes to each woofer box. Now the only way to get the crossover out is to disconnect at the terminal strips. That is a major pain and the reason the first took me so long. I had already glued the woofer holes so I had to connect the speakers to the terminal strip in the box. It took me forever to get the screws back into the strips.
I had the same concern. On my speakers (not 1099), I screwed each crossover board to 1/2" cubes of scrap wood (one on each corner), and glued them to the speaker cabinet.
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post #1576 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 02:36 PM
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I used longer wire on my 2nd speaker. Now I won't have a problem if I have to remove the crossovers.

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post #1577 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 05:35 PM
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F' it. Just preordered two. I hope I like building speakers.
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post #1578 of 2195 Old 08-18-2014, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Lucasd2002 View Post
F' it. Just preordered two. I hope I like building speakers.
If it is anything like my experience, finishing the speakers ended up being a letdown...because there was nothing else to work on. It was a fun process. I have built furniture before, so the building was easy(especially with the flatpack). I had never done soldering, so that was new, but picked it up quickly. Now that they are done, I just look at them and want to build 4 more to complete my whole surround setup as well. It was a lot of fun. oh yeah, they sound awesome too!
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post #1579 of 2195 Old 08-19-2014, 06:48 AM
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Tux, have you ever thought about a grill design for the 10-99? I have been thinking about it looking at my center. I just wouldn't want to cause any diffraction or other issues. I love seeing the drivers, personally, and so does my wife and our kids are getting older and would never mess with the speakers anyway but sometimes we have guests over with little kids that are not "trained" the same way, and it's nerve racking! What would a grill for a 10-99 have to look like? Thanks!
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post #1580 of 2195 Old 08-19-2014, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Ya I have thought about it. I think the only way to do it right would be a big rectangle. Might need cross braces in the grill frame right between the woofer and mid/tweeter sections. These are all diffraction sources and are less than ideal, but then again, sometimes you just need a grill. I put grills on my last build... (not 1099)
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post #1581 of 2195 Old 08-19-2014, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Ya I have thought about it. I think the only way to do it right would be a big rectangle. Might need cross braces in the grill frame right between the woofer and mid/tweeter sections. These are all diffraction sources and are less than ideal, but then again, sometimes you just need a grill. I put grills on my last build... (not 1099)
Yeah, I checked out the grill on your other build and thought of ask.
If I were to measure with some kind of grill off and on, what should I be looking for in the data? Would I just look at the FR?
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post #1582 of 2195 Old 08-19-2014, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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You'll see diffraction in the FR, but it'll be pretty high resolution and you'll need to keep the setup identical to not screw up anything.
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post #1583 of 2195 Old 08-22-2014, 08:11 AM
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Question for all you experts.

With the 1099s as my mains (LCR + L-Wide + R-Wide), what would make better "height" and "surround" speakers? Fusion 10 or Volt 10? The Volt 10's angled flat pack is especially appealing, as I can mount them on the front wall as height speakers, and they will be angled correctly (for the most part). However, that is not a strict rule, I have wall mounted stands, that can hold speakers, and angle them if necessary.

Then, I need 2 back surrounds, and 2 side surrounds.

The reason I'm thinking of these right now, is because if I go the veneer route, I'll just veneer all of them at the same time. (It is daunting though, that's a lot of speakers and stands to veneer....)

btw, didn't someone mention something about, someone making pre-assembled 1099 crossovers (for a fee, I think)? Due to lack of time, I may be inclined towards that.
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post #1584 of 2195 Old 08-22-2014, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
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mtg90 makes XO'ers for a fee. He's a sucker for punishment. And he's an authorized SEOS builder

I'll do it for people, but I don't have nearly enough free time either, so I can't be bothered to make nice stickers for labels and put stand-off blocks on the board and stuff.

As for your choice of the Fusion 10 or Volt 10, I make mention of the differences in the FAQ. Generally, the Fusion 10 is the preferred choice, however the Volt 10 is a much easier fit for most people and has the coax advantage. Sounds like the V10 would be easier for you to fit in your space, and would save you some money. No reviews of the new Fusion 10 yet, so all I can say is what I think of it. It's quite a lot of speaker in a mid sized package and midrange price. It has more effeciency than the V10, and has a beefier compression driver, but costs more and is bigger too. So really it's about what works for you.
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post #1585 of 2195 Old 08-22-2014, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapone View Post


btw, didn't someone mention something about, someone making pre-assembled 1099 crossovers (for a fee, I think)? Due to lack of time, I may be inclined towards that.
Robert Jones II has a really nice diagram on the XO's if you wanted to attempt them your self. Can be found here
The Exclusive 1099
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post #1586 of 2195 Old 08-22-2014, 08:44 AM
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Oh, I can make the crossovers, that's not an issue. I've been soldering for over 2 decades. It's the lack of time that concerns me.
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post #1587 of 2195 Old 08-22-2014, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
mtg90 makes XO'ers for a fee. He's a sucker for punishment. And he's an authorized SEOS builder

I'll do it for people, but I don't have nearly enough free time either, so I can't be bothered to make nice stickers for labels and put stand-off blocks on the board and stuff.

As for your choice of the Fusion 10 or Volt 10, I make mention of the differences in the FAQ. Generally, the Fusion 10 is the preferred choice, however the Volt 10 is a much easier fit for most people and has the coax advantage. Sounds like the V10 would be easier for you to fit in your space, and would save you some money. No reviews of the new Fusion 10 yet, so all I can say is what I think of it. It's quite a lot of speaker in a mid sized package and midrange price. It has more effeciency than the V10, and has a beefier compression driver, but costs more and is bigger too. So really it's about what works for you.
Yeah, the choice between the Fusion and Volts is a tough one. The cost is not an issue at all, I'm more concerned about the overall system "matching", and to a certain degree, placement and size.
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post #1588 of 2195 Old 08-22-2014, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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What are your output standards? If money isn't an issue and you can make them fit and like it loud, I'd go Fusion 10. That would be a very loud system with the heights and surround backs!!!
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post #1589 of 2195 Old 08-22-2014, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
What are your output standards? If money isn't an issue and you can make them fit and like it loud, I'd go Fusion 10. That would be a very loud system with the heights and surround backs!!!
As I said, I'm not going to be able to "effectively" use a system like this in our current house. However, the new house... And it's always good to have a system that "can" play loud, without distortion, but it doesn't have to, all the time.

The way I'm looking at this, is this.

- I'm getting 1099s as mains
- I need surrounds and height speakers as well, that "match" the 1099s tonally and from a timbre perspective. It won't be 100%, but that's ok.
- Speakers are an investment, my last set was bought almost 8 years ago.
- I expect this setup to last atleast that long, if not more.
- I'm ok with spending more money now, to buy better quality/performing speakers, even if I'm not able to use them to their full potential just yet.
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post #1590 of 2195 Old 08-22-2014, 10:55 AM
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Last night I thought I'd put the 1099s through a little more abuse.
I have the DVD/DVDA to Blue Man Group:Audio
Queue'd up TV Song and turned the volume to 11.

build up..build up. build up..... 1:25 hits.

THWACK!!!! <evil grin>
the 1099 and SI18HT are an fun pair for sure...

(not sure how good the audio is on the youtube rip compared to the DVDA, but it's here to listen to)
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