A 3 way 99db multi configurable SEOS design - Page 58 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1711 of 2585 Old 09-05-2014, 11:30 AM
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What sub config would match the 1099's? I was looking at doing dual subs, not because I would EVER need them in my current room, but because I am simply to lazy to make stands. Future proofing never hurt anyone right?

I was thinking dual 12's. Is that enough to match what the 1099's are capable of? Or should I save and spring for 15's?
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post #1712 of 2585 Old 09-05-2014, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by mgarnto View Post
What sub config would match the 1099's? I was looking at doing dual subs, not because I would EVER need them in my current room, but because I am simply to lazy to make stands. Future proofing never hurt anyone right?

I was thinking dual 12's. Is that enough to match what the 1099's are capable of? Or should I save and spring for 15's?
18's or bust. I built a sealed 15" a few months ago and I'm regretting not going with an 18"
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post #1713 of 2585 Old 09-05-2014, 11:51 AM
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18's or bust. I built a sealed 15" a few months ago and I'm regretting not going with an 18"

Wait really? Dual 18's to match? Holy crap
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post #1714 of 2585 Old 09-05-2014, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mgarnto View Post
Wait really? Dual 18's to match? Holy crap
This section of the forums is famous for causing people to go from wanting a single 12" sub to quad 18's. You will rarely see anyone talk you down from going big. I have 2 18's waiting to be built to match my 1099's. If it seems like overkill, think of it this way. You can always turn it down if it's too loud, but you can't turn it up past it's limits.
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post #1715 of 2585 Old 09-05-2014, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarnto View Post
What sub config would match the 1099's? I was looking at doing dual subs, not because I would EVER need them in my current room, but because I am simply to lazy to make stands. Future proofing never hurt anyone right?

I was thinking dual 12's. Is that enough to match what the 1099's are capable of? Or should I save and spring for 15's?
Can you be more specific about what you're looking for? What do you mean by "match"? If you mean in terms of frequency response for flexible crossover placement, then just about any subwoofer will work. If you mean in terms of output, running out of steam near the same point, it'll take a LOT.

It sounds like you have the idea that the choice for multiple subwoofers is driven by need for more output. While that can be true, generally the reason for multiple subwoofers is for evening out response. Do a search for "multi-sub" to learn more. But here's the condensed version: Your room almost definitely DOES need 2 or more subwoofers. And directly under your L and R is probably not the best place for them.
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post #1716 of 2585 Old 09-05-2014, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by pitviper33 View Post
Can you be more specific about what you're looking for? What do you mean by "match"? If you mean in terms of frequency response for flexible crossover placement, then just about any subwoofer will work. If you mean in terms of output, running out of steam near the same point, it'll take a LOT.

It sounds like you have the idea that the choice for multiple subwoofers is driven by need for more output. While that can be true, generally the reason for multiple subwoofers is for evening out response. Do a search for "multi-sub" to learn more. But here's the condensed version: Your room almost definitely DOES need 2 or more subwoofers. And directly under your L and R is probably not the best place for them.
I meant match them as in output. My want for multiple subs is driven by my laziness to build stands to bring the tweeters on the 1099 to ear level. I have seen quite alot of people using subs as stands, so I was under the impression that it may not be the best placement, but it can't be hurting sound quality that much.

I've been stateside about 15 days over the last month, and only about 5 of that was spent at home(military aircrew). I'll barely have time the to put together the 1099's and my sub(s), so I don't really have time to mess with stands. Which is why I wanted to just set them on top.

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post #1717 of 2585 Old 09-05-2014, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Go ahead and set them on top. You can optomize later. As far as out put though, there's no 12" driver that I know of that can keep up with the 1099. The output of the 1099 is shear insanity. That doesn't mean every buyer of the 1099 must use it to its max potential, but if your subs will always hold the speakers back at their 25% capability, then you gotta wonder if it's worth it. Sure, the SQ might make it worth it, but still. Just plan on adding more subs in the future. Believe me, 6 x 12" subs in my HT can't keep up with the 1099 in any possible way
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post #1718 of 2585 Old 09-05-2014, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Go ahead and set them on top. You can optomize later. As far as out put though, there's no 12" driver that I know of that can keep up with the 1099. The output of the 1099 is shear insanity. That doesn't mean every buyer of the 1099 must use it to its max potential, but if your subs will always hold the speakers back at their 25% capability, then you gotta wonder if it's worth it. Sure, the SQ might make it worth it, but still. Just plan on adding more subs in the future. Believe me, 6 x 12" subs in my HT can't keep up with the 1099 in any possible way
Dual 15's it is! I'll be in a house this time next year so it's a relatively justifiable future proof. Neighbors in my apartment complex will not be happy in the mean time though lol.
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post #1719 of 2585 Old 09-05-2014, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgarnto View Post
I meant match them as in output. My want for multiple subs is driven by my laziness to build stands to bring the tweeters on the 1099 to ear level. I have seen quite alot of people using subs as stands, so I was under the impression that it may not be the best placement, but it can't be hurting sound quality that much.
It won't hurt sound quality to do what you're thinking. It just won't be realizing the full benefit of the multiple bass sources. Directionally, two subwoofers in non-ideal locations should still be better than one subwoofer in a non-ideal location. As you pointed out, many people have done it and seem satisfied. I just want to make sure you understand that you're sacrificing placement.

In terms of output, think of it this way. For each speaker, you've got 2 10" drivers handling the lowest frequencies. You'll be crossing over to a proposed single 12" driver per speaker. 2 10" drivers have MORE radiating area than the single 12" driver to which they're crossing over. Of course only looking at radiating area is vastly over-simplified, but just as a seat of the pants comparison tool, it shows that you are going to be nowhere close to matching output capability.
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post #1720 of 2585 Old 09-05-2014, 01:35 PM
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My three 15" can keep up but I would say that's the minimum . When I add one 18" more it will be ideal for me.
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post #1721 of 2585 Old 09-05-2014, 02:44 PM
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First post of thread.
Q. What size amp should I use with these?
A. Something with at least 20 watts.

Q. Huh!?! But these can handle a bajillion watts, how can they possibly sound good with only 20 watts?
A. Well, they'll work with 1/4 watt or even an 1/8th watt. How loud do you want to play? 20 watts will give you about 105db sitting about 10 feet away (depending how you look at it). That's actually really loud. So for reference level, you'll want at least that. So yes, your little receiver will power these just fine. Wanna put a big pro amp on them, sure go right ahead.

So from 10 feet they can play reference movie soundtracks with a measly 20 watts. With bass management there are movies measured to need over 120+ dB from the subs at reference. So if you are giving these some real power, it takes a helluva sub system to keep up. Just ask yourself "what would Fatshaft do?"
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post #1722 of 2585 Old 09-05-2014, 02:56 PM
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"what would Fatshaft do?"
Based on some low production films that may or may not often play on the internet, I think the typical guy with that nickname would "FIX THE CABLE," if you know what I mean.
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post #1723 of 2585 Old 09-05-2014, 04:42 PM
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Based on some low production films that may or may not often play on the internet, I think the typical guy with that nickname would "FIX THE CABLE," if you know what I mean.
You talking about the golf channel? Fatshafts were some clubs he used.

Fatshaft’s Tux 1099 build…

He is currently running four 21" and four 18" with his 1099's.
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post #1724 of 2585 Old 09-05-2014, 04:58 PM
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Yup, I'm running Behringer A500s currently, for my LCR and Left-Wide/Right-Wide and an EP4000 for my subs (four 15" currently), with a Denon 4311.

The Denon realistically will do ~120w per channel with all channels driven, so I plan to hook all five 1099s to that, in addition to the height and surround speakers I'm using currently (they are already running off of the Denon).

Now that the A500s will be "free", that gives me an additional 6 channels (I have three of the A500s) of amplification with ~225w per channel at 4ohms (realistically). I plan to power six 15" subs off of those, and another 6-8 15" subs off of the EP4000.

That should be enough in the new house...I think.
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post #1725 of 2585 Old 09-05-2014, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
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You talking about the golf channel? Fatshafts were some clubs he used.

Fatshaft’s Tux 1099 build…

He is currently running four 21" and four 18" with his 1099's.



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My Build Thread
Equipment Speakers:
3x 1099's for LCR duty
4x Fusion 8's for surround duty
8x subs: 4x FTW21's and 4x SI18's
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post #1726 of 2585 Old 09-05-2014, 09:04 PM
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You talking about the golf channel? Fatshafts were some clubs he used.
Yes, his user name is clearly a not-so-subtle reference to Holly Sonders.

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post #1727 of 2585 Old 09-07-2014, 02:54 PM
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I will be ordering three 1099's when they are available again... I plan on building them with my 76yr old dad and always have them in the family, to not only enjoy, but as memories...

Would it be wise to buy extra replacement drivers to store away in case they will be needed 10yrs or so from now? Or is that a waste/not necessary? Seems as if speakers like these will be "passed on" to your kids down the road, etc... especially since they were built by family...
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post #1728 of 2585 Old 09-07-2014, 03:41 PM
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I will be ordering three 1099's when they are available again... I plan on building them with my 76yr old dad and always have them in the family, to not only enjoy, but as memories...

Would it be wise to buy extra replacement drivers to store away in case they will be needed 10yrs or so from now? Or is that a waste/not necessary? Seems as if speakers like these will be "passed on" to your kids down the road, etc... especially since they were built by family...
I'm not sure they will be available again. Might have missed out
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post #1730 of 2585 Old 09-07-2014, 04:18 PM
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I'm not sure they will be available again. Might have missed out
Oh no! Seriously? Are they gone forever?
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post #1731 of 2585 Old 09-07-2014, 05:20 PM
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I need to count up the remaining midranges. More info will be posted by the end of the upcoming week.
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post #1732 of 2585 Old 09-07-2014, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mlah384 View Post
I will be ordering three 1099's when they are available again... I plan on building them with my 76yr old dad and always have them in the family, to not only enjoy, but as memories...

Would it be wise to buy extra replacement drivers to store away in case they will be needed 10yrs or so from now? Or is that a waste/not necessary? Seems as if speakers like these will be "passed on" to your kids down the road, etc... especially since they were built by family...
Wow! That's the kind of thing where I feel so honored to be able to contribute to something like that, and I don't even know who you are.

Erich was going to keep some spare mids. The waveguide will never break. The CD is available as the DE10 is someone had to. And the woofer is available from Eminence. So it would just be those mids. As long as there's some spares around, you should be fine.

The kits should be available again unless the preorders sold very fast. I'm not sure. Erich didn't mention it to me.
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post #1733 of 2585 Old 09-07-2014, 05:48 PM
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I need to count up the remaining midranges. More info will be posted by the end of the upcoming week.
Thanks Erich! This is Michael, I'm the one that you've been emailing back and forth with since Sept 2nd (when the 1099's went back into hiding)... Sorry for the "thousand questions"!.. I know you've been busy!
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Wow! That's the kind of thing where I feel so honored to be able to contribute to something like that, and I don't even know who you are.

Erich was going to keep some spare mids. The waveguide will never break. The CD is available as the DE10 is someone had to. And the woofer is available from Eminence. So it would just be those mids. As long as there's some spares around, you should be fine.

The kits should be available again unless the preorders sold very fast. I'm not sure. Erich didn't mention it to me.
I've been reading this forum for a long time... I really appreciate all that you've done Tux! Guys like you and many many others (too many to list) make the DIY community a special place...
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post #1735 of 2585 Old 09-07-2014, 09:59 PM
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It's been an interesting and informative few days to say the least! I stumbled onto SEOS about a week ago - here and in other forums. A horn that doesn't sound like a horn? That's what everyone said. I became convinced and was soon looking at DIY Sound Group's site trying to decide among the Fusion 8, Fusion 10, and the 12, the Tempest. Then I discovered the 1099 thread. This thing's longer than a Tom Clancy! But, a page turner.

Somewhere around halfway, I decided I had to pull the trigger on these, if that was still possible. As I came to the last few pages of the thread, it seemed that it probably still is, but it appears to be getting close what with Erich posting about checking inventory of the mids. I tried the pre-order page at DIY, but was only able to leave a note about readiness to order. Here's hoping Erich finds enough mids on the top shelf for that to happen..

In any event, a huge Thank You to Erich and Tux for all their work on this project. And to them and many other contributors for the considerable knowledge I have gained over the past week.

If this pans out, the 1099s will be replacing Andrew Jones BS22 bookshelf speakers and C22 center. I like these a lot, but clearly will be moving into a new realm with the 1099s as far as dynamics go. With music, the BS22s sound great but begin to develop a harshness at the level where the sound begins to "bloom," which my RS meter tells me is around 85 db peaks, just where I like to listen. They're also very inefficient, likely leaving little headroom in my AVRs amps.

I plan to pair the 1099s with two SI HT18 subs which I bought when Nick at SI was selling the last of his stock this past spring - in a way, a situation similar to the 1099s, except that SI experienced enough demand that Nick re-ordered the 18s and they are still currently available AFAIK. Not likely to be the same with the Celestion mids, of course. Those subs are still in their boxes, so if it comes together, it will all happen at once!

No spring chicken, I've built speakers before, but it's been about twenty-five years since the last project! (The first used a University 6201 coaxial, if that means anything to anybody). I'm ready to roll, though, and look forward to posting build progress reports here, and to most likely asking a question or two in the process (although you guys have covered lots in great detail!).
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post #1736 of 2585 Old 09-08-2014, 06:44 PM
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This is my first try at building the crossover for the 1099. Does it look right? I just want to make sure before I build the next two.
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post #1737 of 2585 Old 09-09-2014, 03:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Cocytus. Sorry but that is making my head hurt. So many wires going every where. That's not a bad thing, it's actually nicer looking than mine But just can't say if there's a problem. Could you draw lines connecting everything using MS Paint or something on the second photo of the top of the board. That would make things much easier. If this was a 5 part XO I'd be able to do it, but there's so much on them that it's tough.
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post #1738 of 2585 Old 09-09-2014, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Never mind. I'm an ideeit.

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post #1739 of 2585 Old 09-09-2014, 03:50 PM
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I'm still holding out for you to make a 1299 with a SEOS12 or a 1599 with a SEOS15. (But I would settle for a 1299 with a SEOS15 too )

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #1740 of 2585 Old 09-09-2014, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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There's a lot of difficulties with that. I have a list a mile long Send me some woofers and mids and it'll happen eventually. Wouldn't be diysoundgroup endorsed though. Erich has enough going on.
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