Need help desining subwoofer enclosure for 2 x 15" subs. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 135 Old 06-30-2013, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi All,

I have 2 15" subwoofers that have been sitting on a shelf in the garage for almost a decade. They are Soundstream SPL170's (old school car subs). I have no use for them and I am no longer into car audio much. But since I own them and MDF is cheap enough I am wondering if I can use them to make a decent HT subwoofer ??


Here is a link to the owners manual:

http://www.soundstream.com/manuals/sbw/spl170/spl170.pdf

I will post as pics for easy reference:















What is the thoughts? Waste of my time? I am doing this more as a project as I already own a HT subwoofer; but if they might perform ok why not ?

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post #2 of 135 Old 06-30-2013, 07:44 PM
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How big of an enclosure you want? They seem to do ok in a ported enclosure tuned to 25hz but they like a pretty big enclosure.

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post #3 of 135 Old 06-30-2013, 08:43 PM
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I'll be the naysayer and say if you're looking for a project; why not start with one that will provide repeatable positive results with a proven track record. Not saying these can't work; but throwing a car sub designed for much smaller environment into a HT is asking for mediocre results. I know it's a not a budget thing for you, so if you're bored looking for a project, why not break out some old jigsaw puzzles. biggrin.gif

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post #4 of 135 Old 06-30-2013, 11:54 PM
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Specs are not too bad for an older car sub, but yeah you are going to need a big enclosure. Maybe 6-8cuft each tuned to somewhere between 22-30hz. You could try them each in a 8cuft enclosure to 25hz 2-4" PVC ports or the 4" precision port kits cut at 12". Giving them 250w each looks to give some decent SPL numbers you just need a highpass at 20hz to protect the drivers.

Might work horn loaded if you really want to play around with building something and don't mind very large enclosures.
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post #5 of 135 Old 07-01-2013, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

How big of an enclosure you want? They seem to do ok in a ported enclosure tuned to 25hz but they like a pretty big enclosure.

It doesn't matter. 5 or even 10 cubic feet is fine ... Lol

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post #6 of 135 Old 07-01-2013, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

I'll be the naysayer and say if you're looking for a project; why not start with one that will provide repeatable positive results with a proven track record. Not saying these can't work; but throwing a car sub designed for much smaller environment into a HT is asking for mediocre results. I know it's a not a budget thing for you, so if you're bored looking for a project, why not break out some old jigsaw puzzles. biggrin.gif

It's more for show, for some fun, and some practice.

I already own these subs and sheet if MDF is $35 at HD.

A new driver from PE is $250. X2 = $500.

Believe it or not these two subs had an MSRP of $1199 ($599 each) back in the day.

I think I paid $290 each in 1998 or whenever I got them.

They took a beating and are still strong. I'd be surprised if they did not do well.

This project by no means replaces my plans for a real sub in my dedicated theater.

I was actually going to use them in the basement or for bass fill with my PA speakers or possibly with some cheap thrills.

A router, some MDF, a table saw, liquid nails, screws... It seems more fun than a jig saw puzzle. Lol.

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post #7 of 135 Old 07-01-2013, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Sealed seems to give up some SPL in favor of better low end extension and smaller cabinet. Worth it ?

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post #8 of 135 Old 07-01-2013, 06:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Sealed seems to give up some SPL in favor of better low end extension and smaller cabinet. Worth it ?
There's one way to find out, that's to model it in WinISD Alpha or the equivalent and look at the maximum SPL chart, which considers not only frequency response but also driver Pe and xmax. There's no need to guess when you can find out literally in seconds.

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post #9 of 135 Old 07-01-2013, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Sealed seems to give up some SPL in favor of better low end extension and smaller cabinet. Worth it ?
There's one way to find out, that's to model it in WinISD Alpha or the equivalent and look at the maximum SPL chart, which considers not only frequency response but also driver Pe and xmax. There's no need to guess when you can find out literally in seconds.

I am afraid I am still too noob to really know how to do this. I'm pretty new at DIY and about to start. I figured this project might be cheap practice. I was checking out your DR280 and think I want to build one biggrin.gif
This should serve as good practice. I am willing to sacrifice $50 in materials and my time given I already own the woofers and they are not doing anything.

Is WINISD a free software program ? How would I learn the background I need to understand and use it? (Youtube videos? )

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post #10 of 135 Old 07-01-2013, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post


I am afraid I am still too noob to really know how to do this. I'm pretty new at DIY and about to start. I figured this project might be cheap practice. I was checking out your DR280 and think I want to build one biggrin.gif
This should serve as good practice. I am willing to sacrifice $50 in materials and my time given I already own the woofers and they are not doing anything.

You say space is not an issue?

No brainer for me...

Build 2 each of the third recommended vented design (4.5 cubic foot).
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post #11 of 135 Old 07-01-2013, 09:24 AM
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those look just fine.

they have a little less excursion (xmax)
than most subs today, but at 9.5 mm one way
you can definitely make some noise.

a ported cabinet minimizes excursion at
the tuning frequency, so a ported is what
i would suggest.

here is a ported cabinet at 6 cubic feet
tuned to 23hz. one 3" x 16" slot port
that is 36" long.
(if it has one 90 degree bend, that is fine)

excursion limited max spl is around 114db
at 32hz with just under 500 watts.

500 watts is what i would suggest with
this box/driver combination.

two of them would actually be a quite
formidable subwoofer system even by
today's standards.

choosing a combination of max spl and
lowest possible extension is a judgment
call. in this case, i selected 23hz.
others may choose something else.

most store bought are tuned in the 28-32hz
ballpark.

i think that you would be very happy with
your experiment.


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post #12 of 135 Old 07-01-2013, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

those look just fine.

they have a little less excursion (xmax)
than most subs today, but at 9.5 mm one way
you can definitely make some noise.

a ported cabinet minimizes excursion at
the tuning frequency, so a ported is what
i would suggest.

here is a ported cabinet at 6 cubic feet
tuned to 23hz. one 3" x 16" slot port
that is 36" long.
(if it has one 90 degree bend, that is fine)

excursion limited max spl is around 114db
at 32hz with just under 500 watts.

500 watts is what i would suggest with
this box/driver combination.

two of them would actually be a quite
formidable subwoofer system even by
today's standards.

choosing a combination of max spl and
lowest possible extension is a judgment
call. in this case, i selected 23hz.
others may choose something else.

most store bought are tuned in the 28-32hz
ballpark.

i think that you would be very happy with
your experiment.


WOW! Thanks for the high quality post. Yeah I think I'd rather a low tuned port like 23hz your suggesting.

I have a spare Crown 402 amp I could drive them with. It's not being used. Might work out ok.

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post #13 of 135 Old 07-01-2013, 09:36 AM - Thread Starter
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So- now how do I go about building the box? Anything fancy I should do? 0r- just make a square or rectangle with a port ? Suggestions ?

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post #14 of 135 Old 07-01-2013, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

So- now how do I go about building the box?

Nothing special. 3/4" MDF is fine.

Pick proportions that please the eye, or steal the shape of a nice looking commercial speaker scaled to the desired box volume. I favor pointing subwoofer drivers down towards the floor.

Use double thickness stock on the side that has the speaker driver. I generally put triangular stock in all of the corners. Construction adhesive and dry wall screws are fine, just let the adhesive dry a day or more before you do final assembly.

Leave no more than one foot of unsupported side panel around the cross braces which in this size box means 3 braces. Cut the hole for the driver as far off center as you can and attach that brace next to it in approximate center of the panel.. I use 2x2 cross braces.

Rectangular wood or sewer pipe port (6") should be fine. A good subwoofer port should allow free passage for a large cat. ;-)

Remember that the port is not part of the specified box volume, so make the box that much bigger.
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post #15 of 135 Old 07-01-2013, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

So- now how do I go about building the box?

Nothing special. 3/4" MDF is fine.

Pick proportions that please the eye, or steal the shape of a nice looking commercial speaker scaled to the desired box volume. I favor pointing subwoofer drivers down towards the floor.

Use double thickness stock on the side that has the speaker driver. I generally put triangular stock in all of the corners. Construction adhesive and dry wall screws are fine, just let the adhesive dry a day or more before you do final assembly.

Leave no more than one foot of unsupported side panel around the cross braces which in this size box means 3 braces. Cut the hole for the driver as far off center as you can and attach that brace next to it in approximate center of the panel.. I use 2x2 cross braces.

Rectangular wood or sewer pipe port (6") should be fine. A good subwoofer port should allow free passage for a large cat. ;-)

Remember that the port is not part of the specified box volume, so make the box that much bigger.

Hi,

Thanks for the great reply. Yes I was planning on using 3/4" MDF, with screws and liquid nails. I am not sure about pointing towards the floor though. I have two subs so I might do two different boxes.

Perhaps I do one ported and one sealed ??? Would that make sense?

I'd probably round over the edges with a router.

What should I use for port ? Could I use PVC pipe ?

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post #16 of 135 Old 07-01-2013, 03:08 PM
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I think its best if you do two ported or two sealed, don't mix them up. You can use PVC or build a slot port.

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post #17 of 135 Old 07-01-2013, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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how would I do a slot port? I've only done circle ports before.

How is the port or "tune" figured out ?

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post #18 of 135 Old 07-01-2013, 03:53 PM
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Here is an example of a slot port

 

 

 

Use a program like Winisd to determine the correct size of the port.

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post #19 of 135 Old 07-01-2013, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Where do I get a program like that?

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post #20 of 135 Old 07-01-2013, 05:03 PM
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http://www.linearteam.dk/default.aspx?pageid=winisdpro

port tuning depends on the enclosure size,
the cross-sectional area of the port,
and the length of the port.

it does not really matter if it is round,
square, or rectangular.

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post #21 of 135 Old 07-02-2013, 09:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

Thanks again. Ill try and post a design for review if I can come up with one.

Anyone have any suggestions ?
Anyone want to help ?

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post #22 of 135 Old 07-02-2013, 12:53 PM
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a fairly easy build would be a slot ported
subwoofer with one bend in the port like
the one that was posted above.

that particularl one is a little small
though.

for one possibility, go to google images
and search on "mfw subwoofer". that one
used a 15" driver and a slot port. yours
would be slightly larger in size, but the
basic design could be similar.

there are lots of finishing ideas in the
images results as well.

there are also several photos of it in
rooms to provide some rough idea of the
size.

a plate amp on the back is also an option
or you could put a plate amp in a separate
enclosure.

personally, i think that design was a real
winner and it really should be made available
as a flat pack since the company went bust.

erich. calling erich. :-)

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post #23 of 135 Old 07-02-2013, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Hi,

Thanks again. Ill try and post a design for review if I can come up with one.

Anyone have any suggestions ?
Anyone want to help ?

 

If you don't mind a large enclosure then 10 cu ft tuned to 20hz or 25hz would be best.

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post #24 of 135 Old 07-02-2013, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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But I'm too noob to figure out "tune".

How would I design port to a specific tune?

I can design a box but I'm struggling on port. A sealed box seems smaller and easier.

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post #25 of 135 Old 07-02-2013, 02:15 PM
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Do you have winisd installed and the driver loaded into the program? From there you can change the tune under the Box tab and if you go under the vent tab, you can change the dimensions of the port.

 

Here is an example of what you want to look at:

 

On this tab you enter box size and tuning, you can change either of these and see how the freq response changes. You also need to keep in mind that the box dimension you enter does not include the air space occupied by the driver and port. So you need to build it a little bigger to account for those things. You can use this calculator to figure out the displacement of these things http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/enclosure-volume-calculator/

 

 

On the Vent tab, you can tweak the port size. You can change the shape of the port by clicking the shape icon. Round or square. Play with the dimensions of the port till you get an acceptable air speed. Winisd recommends you stay below 17 m/s but you can go slightly higher.

The port dimension of this design is 3" x 4" x14.35"

 

 

 

On the signal tab you can enter however many watts you want but you need to be careful of the excursion of the driver and how much power the driver can handle. Here I entered 500w, its a little past excursion (xmax) but thats ok.

 

 

 

because this is a ported design, you need to add a highpass filter at around the tuning freq. I used a 2nd order highpass at 25hz.

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post #26 of 135 Old 07-02-2013, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

Do you have winisd installed and the driver loaded into the program? From there you can change the tune under the Box tab and if you go under the vent tab, you can change the dimensions of the port.

Here is an example of what you want to look at:

On this tab you enter box size and tuning, you can change either of these and see how the freq response changes. You also need to keep in mind that the box dimension you enter does not include the air space occupied by the driver and port. So you need to build it a little bigger to account for those things. You can use this calculator to figure out the displacement of these things http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/enclosure-volume-calculator/




On the Vent tab, you can tweak the port size. You can change the shape of the port by clicking the shape icon. Round or square. Play with the dimensions of the port till you get an acceptable air speed. Winisd recommends you stay below 17 m/s but you can go slightly higher.
The port dimension of this design is 3" x 4" x14.35"





On the signal tab you can enter however many watts you want but you need to be careful of the excursion of the driver and how much power the driver can handle. Here I entered 500w, its a little past excursion (xmax) but thats ok.





because this is a ported design, you need to add a highpass filter at around the tuning freq. I used a 2nd order highpass at 25hz.


WOW!

Thanks for great reply. I am installing it now. I'll play around and report back. I've never used it before. I don think this existed last time I build boxes for these (late 1990's). I just made a 3.0 cube foot sealed box if I remember correctly. It was easy.

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post #27 of 135 Old 07-02-2013, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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It looks like my subwoofer is already loaded into this program. That's pretty cool:




Should I trust the measurements/specs are right ?

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post #28 of 135 Old 07-02-2013, 04:15 PM
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Specs look right, sometimes they are not EXACTLY as posted by the manufacturer because Winisd will auto calculate some parameters. As long as its "close enough", it will be fine.

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post #29 of 135 Old 07-02-2013, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok- It looks like if I choose "new project" and Soundstream SPL170 - Then I choose normal (not Iso-Barik) - then I choose 1 Drivers- Then Vented- Then extended bass -3db (should I choose something else like the default quasi butterworth ? )

I guess my first question is should I choose:

Quasi Butterworth?
superboom box
C4/SC4 ?
Extended Bass shelf -3
Extended Bass shelf -6

????

What's all this mean ?

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post #30 of 135 Old 07-02-2013, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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OK here is what I did:







I have no clue what it means.

I assume it means if I do a 8.0 cube foot box with 1 5"x5" by 10" port - (I chose easy measurements) - It would be tuned to about 24hz ????

Would that work ? Can I just make a box like that ?

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