Crown XLS1000+MiniDSP Balanced or Crown XTi 1002 amplifier for DIY mains? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 15 Old 07-02-2013, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I am looking into getting a new (amp + parametric EQ) for the "fully upgraded" 3pi main speakers that I built and have been enjoying for the past 2 years. Audyssey MultEQ XT does an excellent job creating a flat response with all of the speakers and subs, but I prefer a slightly downward tilting frequency response curve for the main/center/surround speakers.

FYI...I am an "AUDIO FANATIC" and enjoy tweaking / experimenting / listening / measuring / etc... in pursuit of sonic bliss smile.gif

(Option 1)

(+) Crown XLS1000 is a solid amp, and MiniDSP Balanced is a versatile and powerful DSP unit.
(+) Going with separate amp/DSP adds the flexibility of using the MiniDSP on any amp.
(-) MiniDSP would require additional cables/connections that would need to be modified to
accommodate the phoenix terminal connections.

(Option 2)

(+) Crown XTi 1002 is a slightly more powerful amp with built-in Parametric EQ processing (14 filters/channel).
(+) Integrated amp w/ DSP simplifies connections and reduces A/V rack "rat nest" with limited space.
(-) Lose the flexibility of using the DSP on any amp.

(Option 3...4...)

I'm open to all suggestions...


With my current setup I have zero fan noise or background hiss from my amps, and this is important to me as my equipment is only 8 ft from my listening position. The hard drive in my DVR currently generates the only audible background noise in my system (except for my XBOX 360 which sounds like it is going to take off when it is playing a disc eek.gif )

Any thoughts or ideas are greatly appreciated.


Cheers, Joe


[Main Home Audio/Video System Equipment List:]

Onkyo TX-NR709 A/V Receiver
(2x) 3pi "Fully Upgraded" speakers L/R
(3x) JBL Pro 8330 speakers C/LS/RS
(4x) Chase Home Theater SS-18.1 subwoofers
Yamaha P5000S amplifier (subwoofers)
Behringer A500 (mains)

Nady Audio DSM-1 SPL meter
REW Room EQ Analysis Software
Cross·Spectrum Labs- Calibrated Behringer ECM8000 Microphone
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post #2 of 15 Old 07-03-2013, 03:52 AM
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Since you have a Yamaha proamp on subs why not get the smallest Yamaha with the miniDSP for the 3 Pi's?

Most proamps will have fairly significant fan noise when running full out, but for mains I doubt the amp will see much demand so fans should run less that for subs.

Current Gear: PJ – BenQ PE7700; Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR805; Blu Ray - OppoBDP 103; Turntable - Dual CS-515 w/ Ortofon Super OM10; Amplifiers - OdysseyKhartago, Adcom GFA555, QSC RMX 1850HD; PEQ - Behringer FBD2496 [Near FieldSub], miniDSP 2×4 [Flanking Subs], REW; Speakers - 4 Pi (w/B&C DE250/JBL2226H) × 3 [LCR], Yamaha Crap × 2 [surrounds], Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X18" sealed sub [near field sub], LAB-12 based ported sub tuned to 22 Hz x2 [flanking subs, XO set at 40 Hz]
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post #3 of 15 Old 07-03-2013, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post

Since you have a Yamaha proamp on subs why not get the smallest Yamaha with the miniDSP for the 3 Pi's?

Most proamps will have fairly significant fan noise when running full out, but for mains I doubt the amp will see much demand so fans should run less that for subs.

My Yamaha P5000S is a great amp, and the fan rarely turns on even when playing movies at reference level. The P2500S costs over $100 more than the Crown XLS1000 ($420 vs $299 retail), hence why it is not on my option list. I originally purchased the P5000S on a smoking hot deal, and if I knew how good they were at the time, I would have definitely bought 2 or 3 of them.

I don't mind fans at high output levels (when they are masked by the program material) , just not when idling or during lower volume output.


Cheers, Joe
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post #4 of 15 Old 07-03-2013, 07:13 AM
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If it were me, I would go with the Crown XTI over the XLS+MiniDsp option. To me, having an all in one unit is better because you won't have as many cables to mess with, plus it keeps the signal from be fed to more than one devise, which may, or may not, have any benefits. I have no idea as to whether or not having a separate box for the EQ/Dsp will cause any degrading of the signal, but IMHO it's always best to keep the d/a and a/d conversions to a minimum.
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post #5 of 15 Old 07-03-2013, 07:15 AM
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Understood, the miniDSP is able to eq/HPF below 20 Hz which the XTi cannot, but for mains that roll off as high as the 3 Pis this really doesn't matter (i have upgraded 4 Pi's so I uderstand the designers intent for them to be used with subs). I myself would go with the XTi, overall this is a higher end Crown than the XLS.

Current Gear: PJ – BenQ PE7700; Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR805; Blu Ray - OppoBDP 103; Turntable - Dual CS-515 w/ Ortofon Super OM10; Amplifiers - OdysseyKhartago, Adcom GFA555, QSC RMX 1850HD; PEQ - Behringer FBD2496 [Near FieldSub], miniDSP 2×4 [Flanking Subs], REW; Speakers - 4 Pi (w/B&C DE250/JBL2226H) × 3 [LCR], Yamaha Crap × 2 [surrounds], Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X18" sealed sub [near field sub], LAB-12 based ported sub tuned to 22 Hz x2 [flanking subs, XO set at 40 Hz]
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post #6 of 15 Old 07-03-2013, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Marty and NWCgrad, I am leaning toward the XTi amp as well.

NWCgrad, I followed your 4pi build thread at Audioroundtable.com, and appreciate your contributions to the audio forums.


Cheers, Joe
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post #7 of 15 Old 07-03-2013, 12:30 PM
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My Crown XTi's are champs. They are well-built and my fans almost never go on in my XTi-2002. I've been running an XTi-1000 for five years with the fans removed. It never overheats.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
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post #8 of 15 Old 07-03-2013, 12:52 PM
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In a highish efficiency speaker, you should be fine as far as fan noise. When powering a low efficiency tower, such as something below 85db, the fans will be screaming after 20 minutes at reference levels.

Mike
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post #9 of 15 Old 07-03-2013, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

My Crown XTi's are champs. They are well-built and my fans almost never go on in my XTi-2002. I've been running an XTi-1000 for five years with the fans removed. It never overheats.

Thats what I like to hear!!! (Pun intended biggrin.gif ) Thanks for sharing your input on the XTi amps.

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Originally Posted by Face2 View Post

In a highish efficiency speaker, you should be fine as far as fan noise. When powering a low efficiency tower, such as something below 85db, the fans will be screaming after 20 minutes at reference levels.

The 3pi speakers have a realistic (measured) sensitivity of 93 dB @ 1m, so no low efficiency hi-fi speakers here tongue.gif
And yes, I do like like listening at reference levels smile.gif

For others reading this post who may not know about the 3pi speakers, they are a similar design to the SEOS Tempest 12 speakers. 2-way speaker incorporating a 12" woofer and high frequency compression driver in a constant directivity horn.


Cheers, Joe
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post #10 of 15 Old 07-04-2013, 06:11 AM
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Just out of curiosity how does the Crown XTi series of DSP amps compare to the Behringer iNuke series of DSP amps? How hard or easy is the setup process with each of these? I know that the Behringer can import measurements and EQ'ing from REW, correct me if I am wrong here, but does the Crown offer the same REW filter suggestions?

I wish that someone would make a really in-depth thread or write an easy to understand book solely on active crossover design for those of us who know a little bit about this topic, so that we may finally understand how to properly implement an active crossover!

(Sorry, I was just dreaming/ranting/wishing/hoping that I can somehow figure out how to setup this Behringer iNuke 1000dsp to use as an active crossover with my Left and Right main speakers!)
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post #11 of 15 Old 07-04-2013, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Just out of curiosity how does the Crown XTi series of DSP amps compare to the Behringer iNuke series of DSP amps? How hard or easy is the setup process with each of these? I know that the Behringer can import measurements and EQ'ing from REW, correct me if I am wrong here, but does the Crown offer the same REW filter suggestions?

I wish that someone would make a really in-depth thread or write an easy to understand book solely on active crossover design for those of us who know a little bit about this topic, so that we may finally understand how to properly implement an active crossover!

(Sorry, I was just dreaming/ranting/wishing/hoping that I can somehow figure out how to setup this Behringer iNuke 1000dsp to use as an active crossover with my Left and Right main speakers!)

AFAIK the iNuke has a mode where it acts as a bi-amp with crossover. So, a pair of iNukes will do what you want to do with minimal fuss. Setting up a pair of XTi amps to do the same thing is just a bit more time consuming. The iNuke's software is easier to set up, compared to the XTi. The XTi is a much more solid amp, but also costs more per watt.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
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post #12 of 15 Old 07-04-2013, 10:09 AM
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Both Crown and Behringer DSP software is downloadable so you can mess with both and see which you like. Once I got used to it, I preferred the Crown. Behringer is easier at first however.

Current Gear: PJ – BenQ PE7700; Receiver - Onkyo TX-SR805; Blu Ray - OppoBDP 103; Turntable - Dual CS-515 w/ Ortofon Super OM10; Amplifiers - OdysseyKhartago, Adcom GFA555, QSC RMX 1850HD; PEQ - Behringer FBD2496 [Near FieldSub], miniDSP 2×4 [Flanking Subs], REW; Speakers - 4 Pi (w/B&C DE250/JBL2226H) × 3 [LCR], Yamaha Crap × 2 [surrounds], Exodus Audio Maelstrom-X18" sealed sub [near field sub], LAB-12 based ported sub tuned to 22 Hz x2 [flanking subs, XO set at 40 Hz]
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post #13 of 15 Old 07-04-2013, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzikal-JRNE View Post

I am looking into getting a new (amp + parametric EQ) for the "fully upgraded" 3pi main speakers that I built and have been enjoying for the past 2 years. Audyssey MultEQ XT does an excellent job creating a flat response with all of the speakers and subs, but I prefer a slightly downward tilting frequency response curve for the main/center/surround speakers.

FYI...I am an "AUDIO FANATIC" and enjoy tweaking / experimenting / listening / measuring / etc... in pursuit of sonic bliss smile.gif

Any thoughts or ideas are greatly appreciated.

[Main Home Audio/Video System Equipment List:]

Onkyo TX-NR709 A/V Receiver
(2x) 3pi "Fully Upgraded" speakers L/R
(3x) JBL Pro 8330 speakers C/LS/RS
(4x) Chase Home Theater SS-18.1 subwoofers
Yamaha P5000S amplifier (subwoofers)
Behringer A500 (mains)

How about: None of the above.

Here's a radical shift in thought for ya, forget EQ and your Onkyo AVR and get yourself an Oppo 105 and hook it directly to the A500 (and apply room treatments).

Sonic Bliss Fanatic and EQ should not be placed in the same sentence IMO.
It's like putting diesel in a gas powered van and trying to win the Indy 500 with it.
You need to be getting a Formula 1 quality DAC if you are truly serious in alignment with your wording usage; which the 105 is.

Sometimes you have to forgo features to get any real increase in quality, unfortunately.

Applying more neck bolts will not a better/hotter Frankenstein make.
EQ is a bandaid at best, and a disaster at worst...

-My 2 cents.
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post #14 of 15 Old 07-04-2013, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

How about: None of the above.

Here's a radical shift in thought for ya, forget EQ and your Onkyo AVR and get yourself an Oppo 105 and hook it directly to the A500 (and apply room treatments).

Sonic Bliss Fanatic and EQ should not be placed in the same sentence IMO.
It's like putting diesel in a gas powered van and trying to win the Indy 500 with it.
You need to be getting a Formula 1 quality DAC if you are truly serious in alignment with your wording usage; which the 105 is.

Sometimes you have to forgo features to get any real increase in quality, unfortunately.

Applying more neck bolts will not a better/hotter Frankenstein make.
EQ is a bandaid at best, and a disaster at worst...

-My 2 cents.

BAM! Right on. It's amazing how much flatter my response has gotten as a result of quality component upgrades. At this point I would not dream of EQing, where I once thought it was an absolute necessity.

Find out more about Mark Henninger at www.imagicdigital.com
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post #15 of 15 Old 07-05-2013, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

How about: None of the above.

Here's a radical shift in thought for ya, forget EQ and your Onkyo AVR and get yourself an Oppo 105 and hook it directly to the A500 (and apply room treatments).

Sonic Bliss Fanatic and EQ should not be placed in the same sentence IMO.
It's like putting diesel in a gas powered van and trying to win the Indy 500 with it.
You need to be getting a Formula 1 quality DAC if you are truly serious in alignment with your wording usage; which the 105 is.

Sometimes you have to forgo features to get any real increase in quality, unfortunately.

Applying more neck bolts will not a better/hotter Frankenstein make.
EQ is a bandaid at best, and a disaster at worst...

-My 2 cents.


I would love to do something like this, unfortunately I can not afford an Oppo BDP-105 frown.gif

Can anyone tell me if the Oppo BDP-83 can go straight into an amp like the 105?
What about the Oppo BDP-93? I might be able to scrape together the funds for an Oppo 83 or 93, otherwise I plan
on buying a used Denon AVR-4308 to power my theater setup. I like the notion of using no EQ and going straight from
the Oppo into the amps, as I would imagine that would be the shortest way possible for the sound to travel, and being that
there is no EQ box, no receiver or pre-amp, the sound quality should be better than with a receiver + EQ device,
assuming that the room is well treated and isn't shaped like a square with a bagillion cubic foot.
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