Ribbon Midrange in a 3way design? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 53 Old 07-08-2013, 03:21 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Infrasonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have in my living room Neumann KH 120A studio monitors but i also want more detail and fidellity. That's why I am about to start a 3-way speaker project with the HiVi RT2C-A ribbon tweeter (my X-Over Point would be 1.7-1.8 kHz) and have a question on the midrange. My choice is fallen in to a couple of speakers such as Tang Bang W4-1337SDF, Scan Speak Illuminator 12MU/8731T00. I have discovered recently there is a ribbon midrange speaker which can be crossed at f > 400Hz, with safe crossing at 700Hz, the BG Neo8-S. The price is compelling as well, around 130 Euros (the Scan Speaks costs 265). It seems a lot of research was put in to it. The problem is i couldn't find much information about people building speakers with it. I want transparency and that attracted me to this. What do you guys think about this driver as a part of very high quality 3-way design?


It has 8 inch height and here is how it looks like:

2guyyj4.jpg


I found also a local retailer, the specs described are impressive.
Here is a local retailer:

http://www.audax-speaker.de/index.php?module=shop_articles&index[shop_articles][action]=details&index[shop_articles][category]=4&index[shop_articles][data][shop_articles_id]=105


P.S. I intend to use a 6.5 inch woofer in the middle price range because of the midrange driver which should take care of the mid range issues a lot of woofers are known to have, My choice is fallen into:

Seas Prestige H1571-08 U18RNX/P Fs=43Hz with volume of Vas=0.8 cu ft
or
Peerless Gold HDS-P830990 with GF Cone? Anybody knows what a GF Cone is??
or
Peerless Gold HDS-P830875 with Nomex cone

They all have around Vas around 0.8 cu ft which will keep my cabinet small.

My Builds:
RE AUDIO SE 10 F3-22Hz in 1.8cu ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Infrasonic is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 53 Old 07-08-2013, 03:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,593
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 159
First off, are you capable of designing your own crossover? Do you have measurement gear? That will be the biggest factor as to how all of this stuff meshes together.. I have little to no experience with using ribbons as a mid-range driver, so I can not comment on that. With that being said, how do you know that this ribbon mid-range will measure flat and be transparent? That Scan Speak Illuminator would be my choice, as it has been used in some hi end designs. You might also want to look into some Accuton and Moral mid's as well.

What ever you end up going with, I cant wait to see your results. With all of the high efficiency designs that are constantly going on around here, it sure will be nice to see a more conventional build that focuses on accuracy and transparency over spl!
Martycool007 is offline  
post #3 of 53 Old 07-08-2013, 06:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,742
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 556
GF = Glass Fibre.

There's been some builds around the Neo8, but I can't remember where I saw them. The biggest issue is it can't cross as low as a cone mid, and it is very tall, so you center to center spacing suffers.

By all reports I can recall, the neo 8 is an excellent mid.
tuxedocivic is online now  
post #4 of 53 Old 07-08-2013, 07:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
chrapladm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,762
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 161 Post(s)
Liked: 81
Studio logic....I think has used them before in a 3way. I will see if I can find the thread.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
chrapladm is online now  
post #5 of 53 Old 07-08-2013, 10:43 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 13,802
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked: 820
It's weird seeing that handle and it not being a post from me. tongue.gif

I've seen a few 3-way speakers back in the day using the Neo8 and from what I remember it was very good! I think it is more useful in a line array though.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

Plan9Reloaded Co-host

Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- direct pod link


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- main website

Scott Simonian is offline  
post #6 of 53 Old 07-08-2013, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Infrasonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks guys for joining in, and that this driver proves to be a good one in your memories of previous designs is interesting and intruiging. I can wait to see some previous DIY work with those.

@Martycool007
I have no concerns about the crossover, i can calullate it or even better use one of the famous automatic X-Over calculators. Why i am not that worried about it, it is because every single driver of the system will work in a frequency range that is very forgiving. For example the midrange driver is flat from around 500Hz but there will be some distortion below 600Hz. The producer recommends 700Hz for a safe point, I am gonna cross it at around 800Hz. The mids are linear practicly up to 5kHz and even above. Here comes the HiVi ribbon tweeter which can be crossed according the manufacturer from 1.7kHz and above but i am going to cross it at 2.5kHz so it's going to be easy and very forgiving on the mid and on the tweeter as well wenn distortions are concerned. The woofer will be also a high quality one and there will be no exception here about making it easy for it as well. As mentioned lower X-over frequency for the mid will be 800Hz, in this way for a quality driver such as Seas Prestige oder Peerless Gold this is not of a concern. I intend to use a high pass filter for the woofer tuned at around 50Hz so the driver will operate again a bit higher than designed thus minimizing the distortion for frequencies around Fs and below. Once again X-Over Points: High Pass at 50Hz, X-Over points 800Hz and 2.5kHz. I am going to trust the drivers as they are and not worrying about possible FR nonlinearities like + or - 1 to 2 dB across the entire frequency range. That could be the case in reality but in general those are tricky to compensate with passive X-Over. But taken into consideration the very forgiving frequency range for all 3 drivers are going to work with i am kind of confident that such phenomena won't occur at all.

@tuxedocivic
About crossing low i agree its not that capable like a cone driver, but i also think that crossing below 700Hz won't be necessary as the 6.5inch woofer Seas Prestige oder Peerless HDS will handle frequencies up to 800Hz with ease.
I am hearing what you say about previous designs, can you please tell me approximately where did you see those?
What do you mean with that the center to center space will suffer because the mid is huge? Yeah it will take more space but do you think i need a lot of extra empty unused space in between the mid and the tweeter? Or you mean kind of unsymetrical alignment to save space in therms of the height of the speaker?

I have found here a speaker that uses 2 ribbon midrange drivers along with one tweeter, two 9 inch wofers and two 15 inch subs to handle the frequencies down to 20Hz. It's the Adam high end of the line main monitor S7A MKII.



It costs 15 999 EUR though. Solution design a speaker yourself. wink.gif

My Builds:
RE AUDIO SE 10 F3-22Hz in 1.8cu ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Infrasonic is offline  
post #7 of 53 Old 07-08-2013, 03:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jay1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 3,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 102
That mid has a rising top end response, and when you place a driver on a baffle the response changes fairly significantly vs the IB response, and no you can't get a flat design out of a calculator.... A 3 way is pretty complicated to begin with. You might want to re think your build strategy given the price of a build like this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

 

 

 

Jay1 is online now  
post #8 of 53 Old 07-08-2013, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Infrasonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am not even touching the rising top end from the mid. It is linear up to 5Kz and I am gonna cross around at 2.5. Up from that works the HiVi (tipically crossed at 1.7kHz but in this case 2.5kHz) so no issues there. Every single driver of the system will work in a frequency range that is very forgiving so distortions are taken care of. The only remaining thing is the differencies of the sensitivities, that i can compensate relatively easy. What are your concerns about the X-Over?

My Builds:
RE AUDIO SE 10 F3-22Hz in 1.8cu ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Infrasonic is offline  
post #9 of 53 Old 07-08-2013, 04:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jay1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 3,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 102
The crossover isn't just a brick wall, the positive or negative interactions of the drivers above and below the crossover point can be significant depending on how you match phase. The rising top end means it is going to have a much shallower roll off compared to what the calculator tells you.

This still doesn't account for how the baffle effects the response vs what you see on an IB.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

 

 

 

Jay1 is online now  
post #10 of 53 Old 07-08-2013, 04:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,742
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 556
You need to reconsider at this point. You're going to be flushing a bunch of money down the drain if you try to use a calculator to design the cross over. You need sophisticated measurement gear and cross over CAD software. Jay's right, the rising response will mess you up quick. Look for a proven design that includes measurements and detailed design work from a DIY'er who knows their stuff, even if it's a paid plan. Paid plans are often very cheap for what you get. I think Dennis Murphy has used that mid. His plans might even be free. Also talk to Salk Sound. They have plans that are maybe $30 I believe and are very high end. Don't spend good money on very good drivers, to slap some internet calculated cross over on them. It's really not proper. We've all been tempted the same way you are though.
tuxedocivic is online now  
post #11 of 53 Old 07-08-2013, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Infrasonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Guys thanks for joining in, we have us misunderstood, I even don't consider a passive X-Over with such high quality drivers. I am gonna make it active, something like 3xSTK high quality amplifiers and I am gonna cross them with an active 4th order 24dB or 48dB/octave X-Overs, so it doesnt matter what happens beyond 5kHz when the X-Over point is 2.5kHz. I have built previously numerous 100W TDA7294 amps so amp and X-Over wont be a problem. And a lot of phase stuff will be taken care of along wirh a lot of the disadvantages concerning changing X-Over parameters as the amplitude of the signal or the temperature changes. What are your thoughts on this?

My Builds:
RE AUDIO SE 10 F3-22Hz in 1.8cu ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Infrasonic is offline  
post #12 of 53 Old 07-08-2013, 08:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,742
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 556
My thoughts? I still think you're mistaken. Temperature? Not even on my radar. Active doesnt change the fact that there are still acoustic issues to be dealt with. And at 24db LR you still do see 5khz, albeit fairly small. But that's 30db down by 5khz. What if there's a 10db peak? We still hear -20db.

Active doesnt negate the need to measure and design.

There's nothing wrong with passive on a $1k speaker (although certainly in the realm of worth going active).

Hope I'm not discouraging you. Just don't want you to wonder why $1k worth of drivers per speaker only sounds good for the first month and then once the novelty wears off you are left wondering why you're looking for an upgrade.
tuxedocivic is online now  
post #13 of 53 Old 07-09-2013, 04:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,593
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infrasonic View Post

Guys thanks for joining in, we have us misunderstood, I even don't consider a passive X-Over with such high quality drivers. I am gonna make it active, something like 3xSTK high quality amplifiers and I am gonna cross them with an active 4th order 24dB or 48dB/octave X-Overs, so it doesnt matter what happens beyond 5kHz when the X-Over point is 2.5kHz. I have built previously numerous 100W TDA7294 amps so amp and X-Over wont be a problem. And a lot of phase stuff will be taken care of along wirh a lot of the disadvantages concerning changing X-Over parameters as the amplitude of the signal or the temperature changes. What are your thoughts on this?


Keep in mind that if you cross the mid-range ribbon to the tweeter at 2.5khz, that number is not a brick wall, there will definitely be output above and below that. I must admit that I have very little knowledge about designing crossovers, and can also tell you that designing active crossovers is also just as hard as passives. I think that you should slow down, and let one of the more knowledgeable members help you with setting up this crossover.. This build of yours definitely has the potential to be one of the nicest sounding speakers at any price range. I am super interested in watching this build, and might actually try something similar myself, but, it will be a damn shame if you take those very excellent drivers and pair them with a so-so crossover.


btw- did you ever say whether or not you had any measurement gear? If so, good deal, if not, you will definitely need some!
Martycool007 is offline  
post #14 of 53 Old 07-09-2013, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Infrasonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post

And at 24db LR you still do see 5khz, albeit fairly small. But that's 30db down by 5khz. What if there's a 10db peak? We still hear -20db.

Active doesnt negate the need to measure and design.

There's nothing wrong with passive on a $1k speaker (although certainly in the realm of worth going active).

Hope I'm not discouraging you. Just don't want you to wonder why $1k worth of drivers per speaker only sounds good for the first month and then once the novelty wears off you are left wondering why you're looking for an upgrade.

For the problem with the rising top end of the midrange even in the presence of an acrtive 24db/ octave filter should be handled in some way. I see two solutions, using even a steeper X-Over, a 48dB octave or/and choosing another midrange with more even FR far beyond the X-Over point (for example Scan Speak Immuminator 12MU/8731T00). There will be always some very silent output of overlaping frequency ranges between the drivers, because every X-Over has a slope, there is noting wrong about it. You want less overlapping build a higher order X-Over, still not content use a DSP. But this is a well known fact to all X-Overs and is especially true for the passive ones which always have low roll off. Of course there is a need of designing, the specs of the speakers give a rough margin what is there to deal with. Once again i am gonna be easy on the drivers since the frequency range they work with is verry narrow, this is no 2-Way speaker pushing the drivers to their limits. I intend to cross the drivers based on measured Thiele Small paramaters. For finer tunig with the sonic output i will measure and improve on a later stage some time in the future. What has your experience been with fine tuning the +/-1 or 2 dB peaks and valeys across the frequency range, do you hear it and is it worth the work?

Another issue may be deviating values for the impedance and the sensitivity which can be taken care of.

Do you guys see any other challanges to deal with?

@Martycool007
About the measurement gear, i have signal generator, and a 40 MHz Osci so i can build the X-Overs and the amps.

What is not clear for me is the phase or positioning the mid and the tweeter and the inteference with the Baffle; the phenomena with the center to center distance between the mid and the tweeter and its influence over the cross over point, does anyone have an info what is going there?

My Builds:
RE AUDIO SE 10 F3-22Hz in 1.8cu ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Infrasonic is offline  
post #15 of 53 Old 07-09-2013, 03:45 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tuxedocivic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Ladysmith, BC
Posts: 4,742
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 556
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infrasonic View Post

For the problem with the rising top end of the midrange even in the presence of an acrtive 24db/ octave filter should be handled in some way. I see two solutions, using even a steeper X-Over, a 48dB octave or/and choosing another midrange with more even FR far beyond the X-Over point (for example Scan Speak Immuminator 12MU/8731T00). There will be always some very silent output of overlaping frequency ranges between the drivers, because every X-Over has a slope, there is noting wrong about it. You want less overlapping build a higher order X-Over, still not content use a DSP. But this is a well known fact to all X-Overs and is especially true for the passive ones which always have low roll off. Of course there is a need of designing, the specs of the speakers give a rough margin what is there to deal with. Once again i am gonna be easy on the drivers since the frequency range they work with is verry narrow, this is no 2-Way speaker pushing the drivers to their limits. I intend to cross the drivers based on measured Thiele Small paramaters. For finer tunig with the sonic output i will measure and improve on a later stage some time in the future.

If you say so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infrasonic View Post

What has your experience been with fine tuning the +/-1 or 2 dB peaks and valeys across the frequency range, do you hear it and is it worth the work?

Ya, it's audible. But I don't really fine tune for 1 or 2 db, and that's not what I'm getting at by suggesting you slow down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infrasonic View Post


Do you guys see any other challanges to deal with?

Yes. For starters, these things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infrasonic View Post

phase or positioning the mid and the tweeter and the inteference with the Baffle; the phenomena with the center to center distance between the mid and the tweeter and its influence over the cross over point

All those are important considerations. And more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infrasonic View Post


does anyone have an info what is going there?

Not that can be written in a single forum post. Try some of the DIY FAQs on different speaker building sites and expand from there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infrasonic View Post


About the measurement gear, i have signal generator, and a 40 MHz Osci so i can build the X-Overs and the amps.

That equipment will help you build an amp or dsp, not a speaker cross over. Speaker cross overs are NOT an electronics problem. They're an acoustics problem. Electronics and physical construction are used to solve the acoustic problem.
tuxedocivic is online now  
post #16 of 53 Old 07-09-2013, 04:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
desertdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Elkhorn, NE
Posts: 1,758
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 72 Post(s)
Liked: 242
I have a pair of LS-6 line source speakers with six custom Neo 8 drivers and eight 6.5" woofers per speaker. The kits are available from Danny Richie at GR Research for about $2000 per pair (not shown on website). You have to build the cabinets yourself. Danny ships all over the world. This is a proven design that sounds great.



desertdome is offline  
post #17 of 53 Old 07-09-2013, 04:44 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Infrasonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What is the gain of using so many drivers besides the high SPL? It also seems to me something is happening between the mids being so close to each other. Can you tell me what is going on there?

My Builds:
RE AUDIO SE 10 F3-22Hz in 1.8cu ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Infrasonic is offline  
post #18 of 53 Old 07-09-2013, 05:15 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jay1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 3,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infrasonic View Post

What is the gain of using so many drivers besides the high SPL? It also seems to me something is happening between the mids being so close to each other. Can you tell me what is going on there?

It's a line array. Here is a basic explanation

http://www.tractionsound.com/support/basic_line_array_theory.htm


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

 

 

 

Jay1 is online now  
post #19 of 53 Old 07-09-2013, 05:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Martycool007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,593
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 159
I wonder how those LS-6 line arrays compare to other ID speakers that are offered from the likes of Salk and Ascend, more specifically, the Salk Songtower, and HT-2TL, or Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers? I would imagine the LS-6's to be of similar sound quality to other commercial brands costing over $5,000.00. Is that a fair assessment? I only say that because of the huge disparity between DIY and big box brands that I have experienced first hand. Just curious.
Martycool007 is offline  
post #20 of 53 Old 07-10-2013, 04:51 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Infrasonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have a quetion on the vented rear side of the mid considered Scan Speak 12MU/8731T00 for example or Tang Band W4-1337SDF. In the case of Dayton RS52AN-8 2" dome midrange the basket is close. Should i built a closed chamber of MDF for the mid eliminating the influence of the woofer excursion inside the cabinet?

I also have found some 4inch mids from Thang Band with paper cone which have nearly perfect FR compared to titanium or even polypropilene ones from TB. The dayton has a alumminium done but the FR from the specs is very consistent, which is suspicious to me. Which driver would have the edge how do you think?

For the tweeter i am gravitating towards a tweeter with waveguide such as Fountek Neo CD3.5 to help out with a smoother copling to the baffle and the mid.

My Builds:
RE AUDIO SE 10 F3-22Hz in 1.8cu ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Infrasonic is offline  
post #21 of 53 Old 07-10-2013, 09:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Jay1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 3,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 102
Yes a mid woofer needs its own airspace. The rs52 does in fact have a perfectly flat response up to its breakup.

TB specs are almost never accurate, but most of their drivers are pretty good anyway.

The rs52 would be ideal with a similar dome tweeter because the acoustic centers would basically be the same. Using a waveguide loaded tweeter would help line up acoustic centers with a cone mid


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

 

 

 

Jay1 is online now  
post #22 of 53 Old 07-10-2013, 10:54 AM
Advanced Member
 
Face2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 689
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Liked: 43
When used correctly, the RS52 can sound nice. Keep in mind, dome mids have a small usable bandwidth, I'd recommend 600-3Khz.

Mike
Face2 is online now  
post #23 of 53 Old 07-10-2013, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Infrasonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post


The rs52 would be ideal with a similar dome tweeter because the acoustic centers would basically be the same.

Could you explain briefly please how the centers would be same when the drivers are similar, what is meant by it physically?

Is it feasible with a dome mid together with the Fountek Neo CD3.5?

My Builds:
RE AUDIO SE 10 F3-22Hz in 1.8cu ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Infrasonic is offline  
post #24 of 53 Old 07-10-2013, 02:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jay1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 3,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 102
It makes the phase alignment easier when the acoustic centers match. It basically has to do with the sound arrival in the time domain. You can of course make drivers work when there are differences, but with the way you are planing on doing the crossover work, simpler is better.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

 

 

 

Jay1 is online now  
post #25 of 53 Old 07-10-2013, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Infrasonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Do you mean with the acoustic centers the voice coils (because they are the eminent sound source)
and how deep they are "submerged" into the cabinet? So as the coil of the mid resides deeper as the coil of the tweeter, the Sound wafe from the mid comes with a delay to the ears?

My Builds:
RE AUDIO SE 10 F3-22Hz in 1.8cu ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Infrasonic is offline  
post #26 of 53 Old 07-10-2013, 04:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jay1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: AZ
Posts: 3,981
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infrasonic View Post

Do you mean with the acoustic centers the voice coils (because they are the eminent sound source)
and how deep they are "submerged" into the cabinet? So as the coil of the mid resides deeper as the coil of the tweeter, the Sound wafe from the mid comes with a delay to the ears?

That's basically correct


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

 


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

 

 

 

Jay1 is online now  
post #27 of 53 Old 07-10-2013, 10:16 PM
Member
 
gbegland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
You mean like this? I've been working on this prototype for a little while. We are getting close. Waiting on the CNC guy for final box parts. All active with Digmoda 552.



Greg
gbegland is offline  
post #28 of 53 Old 07-10-2013, 10:20 PM
Member
 
gbegland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

Studio logic....I think has used them before in a 3way. I will see if I can find the thread.

That's me on other forums....Studiotech. Here's a shot testing them in the studio.



Greg
gbegland is offline  
post #29 of 53 Old 07-10-2013, 11:43 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Infrasonic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 24
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Gorgeous setting.. finally someone has built speakers with this smile.gif it looks really nice.
About the mid range driver, what has been your experience as the curve from the FR starts to rise steeply after 5kHz and it could get difficult to control say with a 2.5 kHz point on a passive x-over? Is it a passive crossover you use in this case? Some people say that the FR is actually smooth when the baffle (FR from the data sheet was taken without a baffle) is considered. What type active or passive is your crossover and which order?

What drivers are the tweeter and the woofer and your X-Over points?

The tweeter and the mid are being hold by a common frame, what was yoir purpose doing so?
Thanks in adgance for your help.

What are your impressions of this mid in comparisson with other high end mid drivers?

My Builds:
RE AUDIO SE 10 F3-22Hz in 1.8cu ft
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Infrasonic is offline  
post #30 of 53 Old 07-11-2013, 12:27 PM
Member
 
gbegland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
My system is all active. Look online for Digmoda 552. It's a three channel amp with DSP built in.

As far as other drivers, I've tried many many high end drivers over the past several years developing my baffles and the studio monitors. I personally prefer the sound of the neo10/neo8S over all others. The faceplate holding the mid and tweet together is to keep center-to-center distance at a minimum. The tweeter is the Raal OEM 70-20.

Greg
gbegland is offline  
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off