First DYI subwoofer and 15" TC Sounds Quad Axis defective - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 07-09-2013, 12:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello there,

My name is Marco and I'm writing from Italy.

Last monday (07/01) I received the parts I order from parts express and built my first diy subwoofer.

In particular I built a box of 70 Liters of internal space (from this you have to exclude the space occupied by the driver) for a TC Sounds 15" Quad Axis.

Here are some pictures and the project:

http://i.imgur.com/jBkBoZF.jpg
http://www.decapitate85.com/salotto/Deca15/Sub6.jpg
http://www.decapitate85.com/salotto/Deca15/Sub11.jpg
http://www.decapitate85.com/salotto/Deca15/Sub12.jpg

I was pretty happy about the construction and the result, but I suddenly noticed that it wasn't working properly.

I'm using a Krell HTS 7.1 as pre and a Behringer inuke 6000dsp, but the driver is not moving at all unless I raise up a lot sub level on the pre (+10db) as well on the DSP of the Behringer and anyway it gives a really really low volume (of course the driver is connected in order to work at 4 ohm as per instructions). Please consider also that HTS 7.1 is connected with xlr-xlr cable to behringer, so it is not a problem of lacking of voltage.

It took me two days to find out what was the problem. I tried with two other amplifiers (yamaha p3500s bridged borrowed from a friend and my emotiva XPA-5), tried with different cables, tested all the coils with a multimeter (it seems they are working fine), tried with a signal simulator connected to the Behringer (at 50hz the driver was only able to draw 8 watts!!!!).

The thing is that the motor is completely demagnetized and therefore cannot let the driver move.

See a video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvc5qjUfkR0&feature=youtu.be
(sorry for my poor english)

This issue is frustrating me a lot because parts express, notwithstanding all emails I sent them, still haven't replied. Consider also that I live in Italy and while ordering I asked that the driver could be tested before shipment (but never received a reply from them).

What do you think? Have it ever happend to you before?


Here are some pictures of my living room:

http://www.decapitate85.com/salotto/IMG_2054.JPG
http://www.decapitate85.com/salotto/IMG_2071.JPG
http://www.decapitate85.com/salotto/IMG_2076.JPG
http://www.decapitate85.com/salotto/IMG_2087.JPG
http://www.decapitate85.com/Salotto/IMG_0989.JPG
Picture with old speakers, just to show the position of the subwoofer (sunfire hrs12 to be replaced by TC sounds when it will work): http://www.decapitate85.com/salotto/IMG_7350.JPG
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post #2 of 23 Old 07-09-2013, 10:28 AM
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unmagnetized magnet WOW.
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post #3 of 23 Old 07-09-2013, 10:43 AM
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You sure you got all them voicecoils wired correctly?

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post #4 of 23 Old 07-09-2013, 10:53 AM - Thread Starter
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More than sure. The instructions are well clear.
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post #5 of 23 Old 07-09-2013, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decapitate85 View Post

The thing is that the motor is completely demagnetized and therefore cannot let the driver move.

See a video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvc5qjUfkR0&feature=youtu.be
(sorry for my poor english)

This issue is frustrating me a lot because parts express, notwithstanding all emails I sent them, still haven't replied. Consider also that I live in Italy and while ordering I asked that the driver could be tested before shipment (but never received a reply from them).
I have no advice on how to solve this but based on the video, that screwdriver should have attached itself in the gap and you would have had to use all of your strength to remove it. I have the older version of that driver and your motor is definitely missing some magnetic energy.
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post #6 of 23 Old 07-10-2013, 12:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlj5242 View Post

..that screwdriver should have attached itself in the gap and you would have had to use all of your strength to remove it..

That is what I was expecting to hear. Parts express replied me that they are going to make quality control on all received TC sounds motors and they will ship soon a replacement.
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post #7 of 23 Old 07-10-2013, 01:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I cannot believe it frown.gif
PE just replied that the other one they have in stock has the same problem....
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post #8 of 23 Old 07-11-2013, 10:41 AM
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How does a big motor like that get demagnitized?!
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post #9 of 23 Old 07-11-2013, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

How does a big motor like that get demagnitized?!
Usually extremely high heat.

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post #10 of 23 Old 07-11-2013, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Usually extremely high heat.


How high is "extremely high"?
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post #11 of 23 Old 07-11-2013, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice View Post

Usually extremely high heat.

What I am wondering is how does the motor get exposed to heat without it destroying the rest of the driver? Didn't TC Sounds test the thing after they assembled it? You would think for the kind of money they charge for their drivers, they would have a guys test them.
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post #12 of 23 Old 07-11-2013, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

What I am wondering is how does the motor get exposed to heat without it destroying the rest of the driver? Didn't TC Sounds test the thing after they assembled it? You would think for the kind of money they charge for their drivers, they would have a guys test them.
It is unusual, but not unheard of. Another cause is extreme physical shock, but that should result in visible damage as well. It could be that it simple wasn't properly gaussed in the first place and quality control didn't discover it. It used to be commonplace to have to re-gauss AlNico magnets that lost flux from long term overheating of the driver that wasn't enough to toast the coil, but that obviously couldn't have been the case here.

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post #13 of 23 Old 07-11-2013, 03:23 PM
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PE now uses FedEX intergalactic shipping and the abnormally high heat is absorbed during re-entry

Seriously though, hope they fix it for you. Nothing worse than being excited to hear a new build and it doesn't work
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post #14 of 23 Old 07-11-2013, 11:05 PM - Thread Starter
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PE told me that the last batch of TC is demagnetized eek.gif so something should have happened/missed during the building process.
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post #15 of 23 Old 07-15-2013, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I'm still waiting.... Hopefully another motor will depart today from San Diego (TC sounds promised that last week). Hope my patience will be soon rewarded with the arrival of the motor.
In the meantime I sent them a message asking if they confirm shipment today (In italy now it's 19.00 while in California it should be 10.00 in the morning, hope they will answer soon).
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post #16 of 23 Old 07-15-2013, 11:17 PM - Thread Starter
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It is really a shame, yesterday neither TC sounds nor PE replied to my email. I don't know if that's the way they deal with clients...

When I bought it, I thought that TC sounds would have been a good product (considering its price it MUST be!!), but I'm starting to be really doubtful. Have they always been built in China?

I think also it is really very disgraceful the fact that a whole batch arrived to PE demagnetized, do they perform quality checks at least on some samples?

I cannot even ask for a refund since I lost a lot of time and money to make a box purposely built for that driver. I'm really angry and disappointed.

I'm discussing it also on an Italian forum and some people, who just ordered some dayton are jocking out with me that they spent half as much for a product which is working correctly and with almost the same characteristics (speaking about 15" ultimax, it has even better figures on the paper than 15" quad axis).
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post #17 of 23 Old 07-16-2013, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Tc just replied that they did ship yesterday the new motor..later today they say they will send me tracking info. Let's hope..
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post #18 of 23 Old 07-16-2013, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decapitate85 View Post

When I bought it, I thought that TC sounds would have been a good product (considering its price it MUST be!!), but I'm starting to be really doubtful. Have they always been built in China?.
No. Before TC Sounds went bankrupt, they were hand built in San Diego.
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Originally Posted by decapitate85 View Post

I think also it is really very disgraceful the fact that a whole batch arrived to PE demagnetized, do they perform quality checks at least on some samples?
Once the tape seal is broken, a LOT of people will not consider it as a new product. 99.9% of their parts probably ship without issue. QC should be performed by Teinuro (the build house for TC Sounds)
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II'm discussing it also on an Italian forum and some people, who just ordered some dayton are jocking out with me that they spent half as much for a product which is working correctly and with almost the same characteristics (speaking about 15" ultimax, it has even better figures on the paper than 15" quad axis).
The Axis/TC-3000 is a nothing like an Ultimax other than they are both subs. The 3HP motor is a beast which makes this sub shine in small, sealed enclosures.
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post #19 of 23 Old 07-16-2013, 03:41 PM
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All Mach 5 drivers are hand built to order in Winnipeg, Canada. cool.gif

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post #20 of 23 Old 07-16-2013, 04:26 PM
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All Mach 5 drivers are hand built to order in Winnipeg, Canada. cool.gif

Can't wait for the FTW's to ship! biggrin.gif
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Originally Posted by rlj5242 View Post

No. Before TC Sounds went bankrupt, they were hand built in San Diego.
Once the tape seal is broken, a LOT of people will not consider it as a new product. 99.9% of their parts probably ship without issue. QC should be performed by Teinuro (the build house for TC Sounds)
The Axis/TC-3000 is a nothing like an Ultimax other than they are both subs. The 3HP motor is a beast which makes this sub shine in small, sealed enclosures.

I have the TC3k 12" I picked up locally for 80 bucks used. They really are awesome drivers.
That being said... the ultimax is definitely better for $$/performance but head to head, it would probably get murdered by an axis / tc3k.

OP, hope everything works out and you get to fire it up...
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post #21 of 23 Old 07-18-2013, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is the email I jsut sent to TC Sounds and PE in cc:

I just managed to get more information about USPS parcels and I’m not happy at all. There is a thread on Italian ebay forum of 84 pages with people having troubles and receive the parcel luckily in a month from the date of shipment, if they are unlucky after 40/60 days or they never receive it at all.

The fact is once the parcel arrives in Italy it cannot be traced, it is delivered to a custom office (you cannot know which one), it will stay there for about 5/7 days before someone takes it in charge.
They will check if there is some invoice or document related to the value of the good inside the package. If they found it they prepare the documents for the payment of duties and ship the good to destination and it will arrive in another 7/10 days. (So in this case the package will arrive in 20/25 days).

If there is no documentation they call or they send an email to the receiver who will have to prepare a declaration regarding the content and it’s value. (In this case it will take about 30/35 days).

The worst scenario is when they don’t have any document supporting the content, and they don’t have an email address or telephone number of the receiver (which I understand it is my case, please correct me if I’m wrong, I’m praying I am), so in this case the package will rest 5/7 days at an unknown custom deposit, someone will loose some day to write me a normal postal letter (5 days to arrive at my address) asking for the documents related to the content and it’s value, I will immediately revert, they will make the parcel depart in other 4/5 days, and in other 3/4 days I will receive my goods (In this case it will take from 40 till 60 days).
Sometimes, if they don’t find the contact number or email they don’t even bother to send a letter, and they abandon the package.

This morning I wrote an email to the Italian central post office giving my telephone number and attaching the receipt you sent me, hoping that some blessed soul will find my package as soon as it enters in Italy and contact me to haste things up, but I already know there is a 1% possibility it could happen.

When PE shipped what I ordered it was sent with UPS which in 4 days was knocking at my door, UPS has its own custom department and everything was smooth and fast.
Was UPS courier so much expensive than USPS and why you didn’t put my contact number, which I gave you along with the address, on the shipping receipt?

I hate to be that polemic, but after all what I’m going through waiting more than a month (or even 20 days if I'm lucky) is getting even more frustrating.
Please consider also that next Sunday 28/07 I will depart for vacation and will stay out of Italy until 05/08, so if they try to contact me by letter I won’t have any chance to reply earlier than my return (therefore I will be
anxious for all vacation). I’m already sure that things will go this way because everything is very well explained here:

http://community.ebay.it/t5/Fare-affari-nel-mondo/USPS-Come-rintracciare-in-Italia-pacco-spedito-da-USA/td-p/4362/page/84

and it is plenty of feedbacks of people with these problematics.

I know that now you cannot do anything, but I would like to point out my total disappointment.
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post #22 of 23 Old 07-25-2013, 02:41 AM - Thread Starter
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The motor finally arrived yesterday and the sub seems to work pretty well (did not have time for test which I will do this evening). I'm really happy, thanks to TC Sounds and PE.
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post #23 of 23 Old 07-25-2013, 05:30 PM
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Happy to see that it works.

Enjoy your holiday!

Two would seem to be two too many to me too.
Sarcasm is the sincerest form of flattery.
I bid you a fondue.
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