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post #91 of 158 Old 07-11-2013, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louquid View Post

Proper being around 900w each. These subs will give you everything they have with a bit more power, but you're risking it if you try to go over 1200w I'd say. You could alwasy go for the iNuke with built in DSP. I believe the DSP on those allow you to control down to 20Hz. The iNuke3000DSP may be a good buy. Or if you prefer running the subs in stereo you could go for the iNuke6000DSP. These amps will get you where you need to be.

If ever you want to do a bit of tweaking below 20Hz (as the iNukes only control down to 20Hz) then you could always go with the miniDSP.

+1

1000-1200w is about right...

for the extra hundred bucks, i'd get the 6000dsp.

as far as not being able to eq under 20hz, i wrote a guide on how to
do that to the dcx2496.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1461489/how-to-extend-the-high-pass-filter-below-20hz-in-dcx2496

the same strategy can be used on inuke dsp.
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post #92 of 158 Old 07-11-2013, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

+1

1000-1200w is about right...

for the extra hundred bucks, i'd get the 6000dsp.

as far as not being able to eq under 20hz, i wrote a guide on how to
do that to the dcx2496.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1461489/how-to-extend-the-high-pass-filter-below-20hz-in-dcx2496

the same strategy can be used on inuke dsp.

speaking of EQing, does anyone have thoughts on the built-in DSP's vs various flavors of Audyssey?

I've read that the inukes have a lot of fan noise. any reason not to just do a fan mod on them?
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post #93 of 158 Old 07-11-2013, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simp1yamazn View Post

speaking of EQing, does anyone have thoughts on the built-in DSP's vs various flavors of Audyssey?

I've read that the inukes have a lot of fan noise. any reason not to just do a fan mod on them?

While I've read good things on Audyssey sub EQ, I don't think it gives the same level of control as a DSP would. Whether it's a miniDSP or built into the iNuke series, it would allow greater overall control over your subwoofers.

I would do the fan mod. If your bass suddenly goes from "demanding" back to "casual" you would probably start to hear the fans.

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post #94 of 158 Old 07-11-2013, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louquid View Post

You can see how these two compare on Data-Bass.com. Check this out. You can compare the Stereo Integrity HT18D2 to the Dayton 18". They appear very similar, with the SI driver getting a bit more output. Though comparing the distortion specs, the Dayton may be a bit better here.

Overall I think they perform similarly. And the price of the SI may seem better, but with shipping added it would be around $250 anyways. Comes down to how many you want to use, how you plan to wire them, and which driver you think is prettier.

I think it should be noted that the distortion chart for the SI HT18 shows 110, 115 and 118dB sweeps where the Dayton RS18-HO chart shows 105, 110 and 115dB sweeps. Because of this, the two charts are a bit misleading if looked at side by side.
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post #95 of 158 Old 07-11-2013, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avgass View Post

I think it should be noted that the distortion chart for the SI HT18 shows 110, 115 and 118dB sweeps where the Dayton RS18-HO chart shows 105, 110 and 115dB sweeps. Because of this, the two charts are a bit misleading if looked at side by side.

True. You have to slide along the bars to see the numbers, and doing so they're pretty close really.

What's impressive is looking at the LMS Ultra's distortion graphs.

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post #96 of 158 Old 07-12-2013, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

http://www.zzounds.com/item--QSCRMX2450

4 ft3 box with 2400 watts will hit xmax at 11 hz

This would be my first experience using pro-amps at home so I"m a little behind the learning curve. Any reason not to consider the Cerwin-Vega CV-2800 found here? Looks to be $250 cheaper and still gives 2800w 4ohm bridged.

Or the Behringer EPX4000 which is 3000w rms into 4 ohm bridged?

In general, I guess i'm not as familiar with the pro amps so I'm not as sure what I need to be looking for in them.
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post #97 of 158 Old 07-12-2013, 07:11 AM
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A lot of pro amps have overstated power ratings. The Behringer is really putting out 2000 watts bridged at 4 ohm, which is still pretty good for the money, but a lot less then rated. I have no clue about CV and how accurate they are.

QSC is golden, one of the top brands IME.


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post #98 of 158 Old 07-12-2013, 10:15 AM
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If ever you want to do a bit of tweaking below 20Hz (as the iNukes only control down to 20Hz) then you could always go with the miniDSP.

There's a thread on here that shows you how to use shelf filters to act like a HPF at 10hz (I could only find this thread but there is another one somewhere).

edit: linked in post #91 rolleyes.gif
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post #99 of 158 Old 07-12-2013, 01:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louquid View Post

The Xmax for the 18" isn't correct there. It's actually around 20+ mm. So very similar to the 15" MK 4.

I'm not very familiar with the 15" MK 4 but those specs do seem pretty impressive. Check this thread out. They discuss how well it models and what optimum enclosure sizes would be.

You could go with a 3 cu ft sealed enclosure for the 15" MK 4 and get very nice output. From the thread it appears that it's 1 db down from the 18" HO at higher bass frequencies, but that isn't very much. In all, these look pretty nice and might do expcetionally well.

I read through that thread and the more I read the more I lean towards the UXL-18 whether I go single or dual. It may require more power for SPL, but again SPL isn't too high on my priority list. Seems to stay cleaner the lower you go. Plus, if I need more SPL I'll just add another biggrin.gif
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post #100 of 158 Old 07-12-2013, 02:26 PM
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So you are giving up the small enclosure ?

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #101 of 158 Old 07-12-2013, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

So you are giving up the small enclosure ?

the really small enclosure, yea. I realized that after i finish my HTPC (which you also gave me some good advice about) the spot that I had been using to store all of my physical media can go into storage and the 18" enclosure will be almost the exact same footprint so it won't really take up any space. In any case I always have such great aspirations to get something that won't take up too much space to appease the wife, but then I end up ditching it soon there after. that's how i ended up with 5 ft tall speakers. biggrin.gif

I'm planning on using the flat pack enclosure from parts express that is made for the dayton 18". In the other thread someone used that enclosure for the ULX and said it was a tight fit but ended up working well. It is a 4 cubic foot enclosure so it should work pretty well for a sealed design.
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post #102 of 158 Old 07-12-2013, 05:16 PM
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That was me. The UXL will just barely fit ( has to to be tapped in, even) if you take off the rubber gasket. Just make sure you carefully align the inner and outer baffles. It worked for me, so I'm confident you can make it work too. Good luck. smile.gif


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post #103 of 158 Old 07-13-2013, 12:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel975 View Post

That was me. The UXL will just barely fit ( has to to be tapped in, even) if you take off the rubber gasket. Just make sure you carefully align the inner and outer baffles. It worked for me, so I'm confident you can make it work too. Good luck. smile.gif

Awesome. I may also widen the cutout a little so I don't have to remove the rubber piece. We will see
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post #104 of 158 Old 07-13-2013, 05:10 PM
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Just so I'm clear- it was the outer baffle that made it such a tight fit. The inner baffle's cutout is perfect.


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post #105 of 158 Old 07-15-2013, 06:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel975 View Post

Just so I'm clear- it was the outer baffle that made it such a tight fit. The inner baffle's cutout is perfect.

Awesome, thanks for the information. It's nice to be able to learn from your build before I start mine.
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post #106 of 158 Old 07-15-2013, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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so i was given a final veto on dual subs frown.gif oh well

Now I have to decide between doing a uxl-18 or spend the money on the lms. I've read that for dual opposed designs, ideally you want to double the volume of the enclosure. However, is there any benefit at all in using the same size cabinet but adding a second driver?
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post #107 of 158 Old 07-15-2013, 11:52 AM
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Yellow is a single driver in 4cu ft, 1500w.

Light blue is dual drivers in 4cu ft, 1500w.

 



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post #108 of 158 Old 07-15-2013, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for running that for me. Is that 1500 w total or per driver? and would it make any difference?
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post #109 of 158 Old 07-15-2013, 12:12 PM
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That would be 1500w total. With dual drivers you increase the power handling by two so you could use 3000w for the dual drivers. The drivers are only rated for 1200w rms but I'm sure they could handle a bit more as long as you are not running sine waves through them.



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post #110 of 158 Old 07-15-2013, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Would increasing total system power with dual drivers help with the sharper roll-off that they seem to experience?
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post #111 of 158 Old 07-15-2013, 02:25 PM - Thread Starter
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based on those graphs, it seems like for me I wouldn't benefit at all from a dual driver design. It doesn't dig any deeper and the roll-off is even sharper with the duals.

Would there be any reduced distortion since both drivers won't be using as much excursion at any given volume?
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post #112 of 158 Old 07-15-2013, 03:21 PM
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Back in post number 53 I showed you how you can get good extension out of a smallish multidriver box

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1480925/diy-sub-for-around-2k/30#post_23513014

just for comparison sake, here is the same quad RS15HO in 6ft3 vs a UXL 18 in 4 ft3. Levels matched just to show the extension difference. Now of course, you can still EQ the UXL, but the quad drivers have more SPL capability, considering the Vd and Pmax advantage.



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post #113 of 158 Old 07-15-2013, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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How much volume would I need to account for having 4 drivers? In other words, how large would I need to build it so that after putting the drivers in I would end up with 4 cubic ft?
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post #114 of 158 Old 07-15-2013, 05:13 PM
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That quad woofer box I modeled was for 6 ft3. A typical 15" woofer will displace around 0.1 ft3 internal volume, an 18" maybe 0.13 ft3 - 0.15 ft3


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post #115 of 158 Old 07-15-2013, 05:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Right, I was going off post 53 which was off a 4 cubic ft box. Doubt ill be able to sneak in a 6 cubic ft box without the wife noticing.
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post #116 of 158 Old 07-15-2013, 05:35 PM
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I guess I should pay closer attention to myself biggrin.gif

Here is the same comparison with 4 ft3



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post #117 of 158 Old 07-15-2013, 05:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Haha. No worries. Still looks like ill benefit from a multi driver, especially if I get a miniDSP to eq it for me.

Since you are so helpful and winSD doesn't run on my Mac would you be so kind to model dual uxl 18's for me biggrin.gif
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post #118 of 158 Old 07-15-2013, 05:53 PM
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The pair of UXL's will have the same capability below 30 hz as the HO15's using the rated power handling of woofers. The 15's would still be capable of a few more DB's higher up in frequency. If you are using EQ you could make the UXL look the same graph wise. I'm not sure if you can get custom coils for the UXL, but if you cant then the biggest problem I see with a pair of 4 ohm woofers is getting an amp that can drive 2 ohms without issue. These kind of compact high power sealed setups really come down to delivering enough power to make effective use of the EQ.


Price wise, the quad 15"s make this an easy choice


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post #119 of 158 Old 07-15-2013, 10:19 PM
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"based on those graphs, it seems like for me
I wouldn't benefit at all from a dual driver
design. It doesn't dig any deeper and the
roll-off is even sharper with the duals."

that is the native frequency response.

if you apply eq, you can change how "dig deeper"
they go to anything you want.

it just takes more power.

in the end, if you have enough power to drive
the woofers to their full excursion,
dual drivers = twice as much bass.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #120 of 158 Old 07-16-2013, 02:02 PM - Thread Starter
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New question for you guys, do I need to fill the enclosure with some type of damping material? I've seem some builds use it and some not. Pros and cons?
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