dual 12" monster subwoofer enclosure - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 07-21-2013, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I have 12 huge subs that i dont have any paper work for. the thiele small parameters are unknown.
Is there any way of testing the subs to find out want encloser would work best for them?
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post #2 of 43 Old 07-21-2013, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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this is the subwoofer in question
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post #3 of 43 Old 07-21-2013, 10:53 AM
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Might be worth it to buy DATS

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=390-806

Can you post a pic of the cone side?
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post #4 of 43 Old 07-21-2013, 11:03 AM
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or the backside?

There is no MFG on it ?

Seems odd

Where did you get them ?

-

"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #5 of 43 Old 07-21-2013, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

or the backside?

There is no MFG on it ?

Seems odd

Where did you get them ?

ok this is what i know about the sub. the basket is from the old phoenix gold titainum elite
when that woofer was dicontinued a company by the name of ultratech bought the baskets and created the woofer i have called the Ultra Blue Monster
i also know the motor structure is completely different.
so using the pheonic gold specs most likely wont work
the tag on it says
Ultratech
12686a WO:1268A
BLUE MONSTER-12 0807

I also know this is a dual 4 ohm and can handle 1000 watts RMS

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/11057_1280110805529_2771580_n.jpg
these are the pheonix gold ti12

this is my woofer

[/URL
]


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post #6 of 43 Old 07-21-2013, 12:48 PM
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Two F20's, or two 20" THT's.
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post #7 of 43 Old 07-21-2013, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diaz View Post

Two F20's, or two 20" THT's.
The woofers may have the wrong TSP's for those enclosures.

YID DIY
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post #8 of 43 Old 07-21-2013, 01:43 PM
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post #9 of 43 Old 07-21-2013, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looneybomber View Post

The woofers may have the wrong TSP's for those enclosures.

Sorry, I meant to add that... "If it has the right TS, then the F20 would work"... as the THT only has an 8" clearance for the speaker.
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post #10 of 43 Old 07-21-2013, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Might be worth it to buy DATS

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=390-806

Can you post a pic of the cone side?

well i have tried getting the specs form ultratech.... dead end there.

i didnt want to spend the money on the DATS. i had looked at a while back for this reason. i my just have to pony up and get it.
i was hoping maybe some one close might have one. then i could just take the woofer over there and have it tested.
i am hoping they will work in a 1.75 cubic foot box ported each. i dont have a lot of room to play with in my living room.
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post #11 of 43 Old 07-21-2013, 02:51 PM
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I really wouldn't bother porting those with such a small volume.. you'll start eating into the little volume you have just making the ports. I'd concentrate on two sealed boxes and a good amp.
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post #12 of 43 Old 07-21-2013, 04:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diaz View Post

I really wouldn't bother porting those with such a small volume.. you'll start eating into the little volume you have just making the ports. I'd concentrate on two sealed boxes and a good amp.

it got the amp covered. its a QSC RMX2450
i could go a bit bigger on the box if i needed to. i have one of them in a 3.5 ft3 box tuned to 19 hz. the box is too big. i cant put a ton of power on it. but it does get down.
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post #13 of 43 Old 07-22-2013, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok i bought the DATS today. so when it get here iin a few days i will get the T.S.P. on these things!!
I would like to run a few ideas by you fokes to see if what i am thinking is a good idea or not.
first off my wife does not like the audio system i am building. she says its too big size wise. my thought bigger is better?!?!?!
i would like to hide the subs some where. i saw a post a while back where the woofers where in the floor. i think this guy had a basement.

questions:
could the same be done but in the attic of my home?

if that didnt work could i put them in the closet where my a/c unit is. there is a lot of room in there.
i am open to ideas too. i am just tring to make my wife happy and have a bad ass sound system.
my LF and RF are 1.5 ft3 boxes i made ported and tune to 42Hz using a dayton 10" mid woofer and a selenium 220ti horn driver
they sound good but they real need the sub for bottom fill.


these are my LF and RF


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post #14 of 43 Old 07-22-2013, 07:28 PM
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Those mains look pretty sweet! I wonder how those would compare to the Seos? What kind of horn is that?
As for the subs, my advise would be to make them into really nice end tables. There are all kinds of builds in the archives that did just that. You can make them look no different than any other end tables, only these will have subs in them. You could even go with a down firing driver arrangement so that no one would know otherwise!
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post #15 of 43 Old 07-23-2013, 04:25 AM - Thread Starter
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marty that's an awsome idea!! Maybe even 2 end tables. yeah now we are getting some where.

the horn on my front channels is this

Dayton Audio H6512 6-1/2" x 12" Waveguide 1" Threaded
Model: H6512
the driver is a selenium 220ti horn driver

i am still a noob what is Seos?
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post #16 of 43 Old 07-23-2013, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike d263 View Post

well i have tried getting the specs form ultratech.... dead end there.

i didnt want to spend the money on the DATS. i had looked at a while back for this reason. i my just have to pony up and get it.
i was hoping maybe some one close might have one. then i could just take the woofer over there and have it tested.
i am hoping they will work in a 1.75 cubic foot box ported each. i dont have a lot of room to play with in my living room.
I would have offered but you don't list your location.

From the looks of it, that's a pretty standard TC-9 type motor. And I'm surprised that Phoenix Gold let them use the gasket with the PG logo on it. It also looks like they went with a single spider instead of dual spiders with a spacer. Here's the internals of the original - http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/forum/fix-my-speaker/41783-recone-ti12d-elite.html
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post #17 of 43 Old 07-23-2013, 06:34 AM
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The f20 is based on a 15 inch speaker. And the clearance of the access panel likely will not accommodate that depth even if it did model out well.
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post #18 of 43 Old 07-23-2013, 06:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlj5242 View Post

I would have offered but you don't list your location.

From the looks of it, that's a pretty standard TC-9 type motor. And I'm surprised that Phoenix Gold let them use the gasket with the PG logo on it. It also looks like they went with a single spider instead of dual spiders with a spacer. Here's the internals of the original - http://www.caraudioclassifieds.org/forum/fix-my-speaker/41783-recone-ti12d-elite.html

i live in beaufort sc about 50 miles form savannah ga
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post #19 of 43 Old 07-23-2013, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike d263 View Post

i live in beaufort sc about 50 miles form savannah ga
That's a little too far even if we meet half way. biggrin.gif

I'm interested in how these measure out. I almost bought a pair of these baskets to make some custom subs. I ended up buying old Elemental Designs AV.2 baskets though.
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post #20 of 43 Old 07-23-2013, 06:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlj5242 View Post

That's a little too far even if we meet half way. biggrin.gif

I'm interested in how these measure out. I almost bought a pair of these baskets to make some custom subs. I ended up buying old Elemental Designs AV.2 baskets though.

yeah thats a bit far but thanks for the offer.
i cant wait to see what these 2 subs can do if they work well i might get the other 2 from the place i got these and get a bigger amp. i really like the QSC Powerlight 6.0.

once i get the tsp on the woofers can someone model a box for me?
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post #21 of 43 Old 07-23-2013, 07:13 PM
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I could do it for sure unless someone beats me to it.
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post #22 of 43 Old 07-26-2013, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I got the DATS and set it all up. i did the free air responce test.
do we need the Vas to figure out a box size?
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post #23 of 43 Old 07-26-2013, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
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this is what i have so far
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post #24 of 43 Old 07-26-2013, 06:22 PM
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post #25 of 43 Old 07-26-2013, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
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ok here is with the vas calculated

lets see what kind of box i need!!!!biggrin.gif
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post #26 of 43 Old 07-26-2013, 08:00 PM
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Anywhere in the 4 - 5 ft3 box range, tuned around the low 20hz range looks good. The variable now is how much power can it handle, and how much Xmax does it have. Just looking at the thing I would imagine it's safe for 1000 watts, which would take it to 21 mm excursion in a 4.5 ft3 box tuned to 22 hz. Which means at the minimum you're going to need a pair of 4" ports (or equivalent slot port). In 4.5 ft3 the 4" ports would need to each be 28" long, or a slot port that is 1.5" high x 18" wide x 29" long for example.

Here's a great resource for planning out a box

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/enclosure-volume-calculator/

Here's the response with 1000 watts

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post #27 of 43 Old 07-27-2013, 05:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Is that 4~5 cubes per driver?
thats way too big. i could go as big as 2.5 cubes per driver. i think it may be time to look at a new woofer. that requires a smaller enclosure.
does any one have any recommendation for a driver.
oh there is a budget of 450$ for this whole thing.
i was happy cause i got these for free so i would have money just tied up in a box.
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post #28 of 43 Old 07-27-2013, 09:44 AM
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Yes that is per driver. You could do a simple 2 ft3 sealed box, f3 of 45 hz. The only way to properly port a high output driver in a small box is to use PRs, otherwise you're going to end up with a slot port that substantially increases the cabinet size, or is tuning you in the 40-50hz range like a car sub.

Here are two options

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-466

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-185

You would need a pair of these PRs

http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=APR12



The 315HO can handle 700 watts, the DVC 500 watts.

Just for comparison here's your driver and the UM12-22 each in 2 ft3 with 700 watts
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-512

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post #29 of 43 Old 07-27-2013, 02:50 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=295-467

i think i will be using a pair of these on 1200 watts a side.
ported they want less than 1.5 cubes says the website.
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post #30 of 43 Old 07-27-2013, 03:15 PM
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Yes but how are you going to prevent massive chuffing, and bottoming the driver in a 1.5ft3 ported box with 1200 watts?
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