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Old 10-15-2016, 10:29 PM
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Distortion is not audible. I have used so many amps it is silly and the Inuke running mains is as good as any. I have owned class a to these and you can't hear a difference. The distortion from any amp(working properly and within limits) will most likely have less distortion than the speakers they are running. I always find it comical when people talk about distortion between a .01 and say how high it is compared to a .001 amp. My favorite amps of the past were Gemstone, sim audio, monarchy, and nakamichi. Krell, Mac, Odyssey, earthquake, cinepro, sunfire, Ada, lexicon, adcom,
Many other pro amps, sherbourn, B&K, Yamaha, etc. Some of those amps stated .001 % distortion in pure class A at 100-150 watts. The Inuke puts out what at 100 watts? It is not audible and why so many amps sound the same.
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Old 10-16-2016, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassment View Post
Oh, I see, you're talking about the rise from impedance changes on the output filter circuit.

That's a valid concern if you're using a home speaker with a goofy impedance plot, I suppose. If we're not trying to drive 15 ohms or 2 ohms, *shrug*
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Old 10-16-2016, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DrDyna View Post
Oh, I see, you're talking about the rise from impedance changes on the output filter circuit.

That's a valid concern if you're using a home speaker with a goofy impedance plot, I suppose. If we're not trying to drive 15 ohms or 2 ohms, *shrug*
That's the thing, speakers are "goofy" impedance
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Old 10-16-2016, 10:05 AM
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That's the thing, speakers are "goofy" impedance
In context, of course. I don't mean goofy compared to a resistor, I mean goofy compared to a typical loudspeaker's impedance curve.

Do we have tweeters that go to 2 ohms at 15 khz or what fellas, I'm lost here, the last passive I designed had no trouble being pretty much a straight 6 ohm line from 6 khz straight to the end of the chart with little effort.

When I say goofy, I mean mis-engineered.
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Old 10-16-2016, 10:32 AM
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I think it's the inductance that can cause problems, not resistance or overall impedance.
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Old 10-16-2016, 10:52 AM
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I love measuring but mics hear much better than humans. You are not going to hear this and the people that say they do I invite them over for a blind test with a well know design and very well measured amp, the Adcom 555.

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Old 10-16-2016, 11:51 AM
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Old 10-16-2016, 06:52 PM
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I have read about class D amps and the switching power supplies, high frequency distortion and what not. I ordered this Behringer with that in mind and the option to return it.

It is staying right here.

Now looking into replacing the fans.
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Old 10-17-2016, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad335 View Post
....high frequency distortion...
I've read some conjecture about distortion, but so far I haven't seen much evidence, unless there's something I've missed.

So far, the only concern (and evidence demonstrated thus far) anyone might have is the loudspeaker load interacting with the output filter, which causes some response abnormalities at the top end if the loudspeaker exhibits a bizarrely low or high impedance above 15 khz, and it has to be pretty bad to cause even a couple of db one way or the other.

This is not distortion, it's just the way the output filter interacts with the load.

I would suspect that the list of people who actually have a measured response from their loudspeaker demonstrating a problem will be incredibly short, and certainly not statistically relevant enough to be entertained as a serious problem.
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Old 10-17-2016, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDyna View Post
I've read some conjecture about distortion, but so far I haven't seen much evidence, unless there's something I've missed.
measurements are in this post and there's also some data on behaviour at lower levels in this post
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Old 10-17-2016, 06:24 AM
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measurements are in this post and there's also some data on behaviour at lower levels in this post
Thank you kindly, sir.

So, it would appear that the distortion does increase with frequency slightly, and really only becomes a quarter as bad as a tube when it's driven like a rented Ferrari.

So, is everyone cool with not worrying about the distortion, or is there something else?
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Old 10-17-2016, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDyna View Post
Thank you kindly, sir.

So, it would appear that the distortion does increase with frequency slightly, and really only becomes a quarter as bad as a tube when it's driven like a rented Ferrari.

So, is everyone cool with not worrying about the distortion, or is there something else?
I was kind of surprised at the comments following the distortion graphs. They looked pretty good to me, but I'm not sure I understand them fully. The worst case showed a THD of .09%. Is that an average across frequency? If so, what is the level at higher frequencies where it goes up? The graph says 2R. Is that 2 ohms?

I use an nu4-6000 to drive a line array of 8 Rs-225s and a BG RD75. It sounds great to me.
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Old 10-17-2016, 07:26 AM
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So basically it measures less than .1% into a 2 ohm load at high levels. For 8 ohms, which I use, and much less than full power(96 dB speakers in room) it measure .007%. No wonder is sounds awesome.

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Front subs 12 SI 18ht ported SLLT powered by Inuke 6000
Rear subs 2 XXX ported SLLT powered by IPR2-7500.
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Old 10-23-2016, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post
So basically it measures less than .1% into a 2 ohm load at high levels. For 8 ohms, which I use, and much less than full power(96 dB speakers in room) it measure .007%. No wonder is sounds awesome.
You're not really reading the graph right, but partly the old version of REW to blame since THD numbers weren't available on the graphs. Also, I didn't have my cursor on the high part, think I left it at 1khz?

Here's the nu4-6000 bridged into 4r 12db below clipping. THD reaches almost 1%. 6db below clipping it approaches 2%. 24db below it's 0.06%.



12db below clip into 8 ohms is a good deal cleaner, approaching 0.1%.



at 24 db below clipping into 8 ohms, you're looking at 0.01% at the same spot.

Last edited by notnyt; 10-23-2016 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 10-23-2016, 07:04 AM
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non bridged numbers

load, db below clip, and thd
2r -3db 1.5%
2r -6db 0.9%
2r -12db 0.24%
2r -24db 0.07%

(one chan driven for these)
4r -3db 0.8%
4r -6db 0.5%
4r -12db 0.08%
4r -24db 0.025%

8r -3db 0.1%
8r -6db 0.045%
8r -12db 0.025%
8r -24db 0.025%

and here's the 3db below clip into 2 ohm graph


Last edited by notnyt; 10-23-2016 at 07:27 AM.
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Old 10-23-2016, 07:23 AM
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And for comparison, so you can see something that looks pretty good, this is the emotiva mini-x 1db below max output.

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Old 10-23-2016, 08:19 AM
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Of course, the Emotiva puts out significantly less power. The Emotiva is rated at 50 watts per channel. What are the comparable distortion levels at similar power output from the Nu4-6000?

On the audibility of distortion, the tests Bob Carver did many years ago are interesting. http://thecarversite.com/yetanotherf...g=posts&t=4481

Quote:
"So far, our tests indicated that very small amounts of distortion (0.15 per cent) are perceptible if the program material is sufficiently simple—for example, a single pure, steady tone. Mixing two tones dramatically raised the threshold of perception to over 2 per cent. Three simultaneous tones, representing increasingly complex program material, resulted in a perception level of a surprising 4 per cent. With normally complex music, it was necessary to increase distortion to a full 6 per cent before it became just perceptible."
Based on this threshold of audibility, the Inuke worst case of 1.46% THD is inaudible unless you are listening to pure tones. Another interesting quote from the article:

Quote:
During these sections, we found that some change of tonal quality could be heard with distortion at a very low 0.35 per cent. With the distortion switched in, the horn acquired a "richer" quality, presumably because the harmonic distortion generated by the crossover notch added a little harmony (no pun). As higher levels of distortion were switched in, the added harmonics subtly changed the character of the horn, each time making it sound as if it had been exchanged for a different—though equally good — instrument. Only when the crossover distortion climbed above 12 per cent did the horn begin to sound fuzzy or "bad."
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Old 10-23-2016, 08:19 AM
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My point is we as humans can near hear 1% distortion and we are fooling ourselves if we think we can. The speakers will have as much if not more. I run mine in 8 ohm and hardly see the first clip light come on for speakers at reference. This means .02% distortion and why they sound awesome in my room. They are very clean and in my room clear, dynamic, and the biggest surprise is zero hum from all sources. If I had my equipment in the same room I would go fan less for sure.

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3 Inuke NU4-6000 amps for all speakers.
Speakers- 7 Behringer B215XL's, 4 212xl's for ceiling speakers.
Front subs 12 SI 18ht ported SLLT powered by Inuke 6000
Rear subs 2 XXX ported SLLT powered by IPR2-7500.
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Old 10-23-2016, 03:39 PM
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Anyone know which fuse is used for this model? Trying to avoid driving into a bad area 45 minutes away for a repair.
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Old 10-23-2016, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
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Of course, the Emotiva puts out significantly less power. The Emotiva is rated at 50 watts per channel. What are the comparable distortion levels at similar power output from the Nu4-6000?
on the nu4-6000, it clips around 250w into 8 ohms. comparable level would be around -8db at 8r.

I was just showing clean behavior near clipping.
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Old 11-17-2016, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDyna View Post
I've read some conjecture about distortion, but so far I haven't seen much evidence, unless there's something I've missed.

So far, the only concern (and evidence demonstrated thus far) anyone might have is the loudspeaker load interacting with the output filter, which causes some response abnormalities at the top end if the loudspeaker exhibits a bizarrely low or high impedance above 15 khz, and it has to be pretty bad to cause even a couple of db one way or the other.

This is not distortion, it's just the way the output filter interacts with the load.

I would suspect that the list of people who actually have a measured response from their loudspeaker demonstrating a problem will be incredibly short, and certainly not statistically relevant enough to be entertained as a serious problem.
Reading stuff all over the internet made me unsure about the Behringer for LCR. Sounded fine to me but reading the negativity weighed on me. Couldn't get it out of my head as to if I was hearing distortion or not.
Anyway, I bought a PLD 4.2 two weeks ago and I admit it sounds better. Not by leaps and bounds but it does. Just sounds better. Two days ago I started getting a loud pop and thought it was the QSC going bad so made arrangements to send it back for replacement to ZZounds. Put the Inuke back to LCR duty to return the QSC and I hear the difference again.

Problem is its not the QSC making the popping noise. Still getting the turn on pop with the Behringer as well. I added new speakers but other wise nothing changed cable and/or electronic wise. What could be doing this? I use a smart powerstrip to turn on the amp.
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Old 11-17-2016, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad335 View Post
Reading stuff all over the internet made me unsure about the Behringer for LCR. Sounded fine to me but reading the negativity weighed on me. Couldn't get it out of my head as to if I was hearing distortion or not.
Anyway, I bought a PLD 4.2 two weeks ago and I admit it sounds better. Not by leaps and bounds but it does. Just sounds better. Two days ago I started getting a loud pop and thought it was the QSC going bad so made arrangements to send it back for replacement to ZZounds. Put the Inuke back to LCR duty to return the QSC and I hear the difference again.

Problem is its not the QSC making the popping noise. Still getting the turn on pop with the Behringer as well. I added new speakers but other wise nothing changed cable and/or electronic wise. What could be doing this? I use a smart powerstrip to turn on the amp.
Probably the receiver or whatever is sending the signal to the amp. Could be blown capacitor
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Old 11-17-2016, 12:16 PM
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Probably the receiver or whatever is sending the signal to the amp. Could be blown capacitor
The receiver could have a blown cap? Oh my...
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Old 11-17-2016, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlad335 View Post
Reading stuff all over the internet made me unsure about the Behringer for LCR. Sounded fine to me but reading the negativity weighed on me. Couldn't get it out of my head as to if I was hearing distortion or not.
Anyway, I bought a PLD 4.2 two weeks ago and I admit it sounds better. Not by leaps and bounds but it does. Just sounds better. Two days ago I started getting a loud pop and thought it was the QSC going bad so made arrangements to send it back for replacement to ZZounds. Put the Inuke back to LCR duty to return the QSC and I hear the difference again.

Problem is its not the QSC making the popping noise. Still getting the turn on pop with the Behringer as well. I added new speakers but other wise nothing changed cable and/or electronic wise. What could be doing this? I use a smart powerstrip to turn on the amp.
A friend of mine is running a pld 4.2 and 4.3. Phenomenal amps.

2000 watts of power and climbing

-Fred
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Old 11-17-2016, 01:41 PM
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The receiver could have a blown cap? Oh my...
It didn't use to pop upon turn-on right? It could also be the smart strip those cause popping on the inuke 6000dsp I know, so you should try it without that to rule it out.
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Old 11-17-2016, 09:36 PM
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Are these 240V compatible?
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Old 11-17-2016, 09:37 PM
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also what's the best way to connect if I only have RCA pre-outs from a Yamaha receiver?
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Old 11-18-2016, 08:11 AM
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also what's the best way to connect if I only have RCA pre-outs from a Yamaha receiver?
I use RCA male to XLR male cables from Monoprice for my iNukes and other amps from my Onkyo receiver.

http://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4777
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