New iNuke NU4 6000 - 4 channel amp - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 25Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 247 Old 07-29-2013, 03:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,750
Mentioned: 148 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1330 Post(s)
Liked: 917
Wow, the Funky Munky Music that's less than a mile from me has them according to the link. I swear I don't need an amp for my LRC... I swear I don't need an amp for my LRC....

I'll just keep saying that to myself every time I drive by.
carp is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 247 Old 07-29-2013, 03:35 PM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 16,205
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2071 Post(s)
Liked: 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Before I finished my 8 subs I had 2 dedicated lines run, both 20 amps. I thought that would be fine based on advice from the forum but I wish I had gone with 30 at least. I've tripped my breaker 10 times roughly and I want a setup where it never happens.

I have a CV 5000 powering 8 18" SI subs, so that does mean that all subs are on the same line since it's just the one amp powering all of them, so I'm betting I'll have much less of an issue if I someday buy another amp so that I'm running 4 subs off each amp or buy a more efficient amp to run all 8 (new Peavey perhaps?)

Still, it's not a huge deal. The only time I trip the breaker is when doing demo's at insane levels and even then the breaker only goes once or twice at the most after a lot of bass scenes. It has never happened at normal movie viewing/music listening levels (reference and below) and I'm positive it never will.

Whew! Cuz I'm going to have a BIG problem at my house soon. redface.gif

Or maybe not with +100dB sensitive mains. tongue.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Wow, the Funky Munky Music that's less than a mile from me has them according to the link. I swear I don't need an amp for my LRC... I swear I don't need an amp for my LRC....

I'll just keep saying that to myself every time I drive by.


My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz ***FOR SALE***

Plan9Reloaded Co-host
Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)
https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link
http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website
Scott Simonian is online now  
post #33 of 247 Old 07-29-2013, 06:03 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 21,011
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 558 Post(s)
Liked: 217
right on the money
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Depends if you are playing music or test tones.

Music has a crest factor of at worst 6-8 dB. The standard HT reference setting scheme is based on a crest factor of 20 dB which is presumably reached only for short peaks. 20 dB = 100x peak to average ratio.

Going back to that utter worst case number of 6 dB, that is 4x power suggesting that your 20 amp circuit can actually support 9600 watts of real world music or movies.

Noah
noah katz is offline  
post #34 of 247 Old 07-29-2013, 10:27 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 18,242
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1234 Post(s)
Liked: 1552
^^while more or less right, there is more...

some folks run bass hot...add power.

some of the bass notes are more like sustained sine waves than music transients...add power.

redirected bass from up to a poopot of other channels increases demands...add power.

just say'n.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #35 of 247 Old 08-01-2013, 05:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
BassThatHz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Okan range (NW Cascades region)
Posts: 4,548
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 904 Post(s)
Liked: 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

Before I finished my 8 subs I had 2 dedicated lines run, both 20 amps. I thought that would be fine based on advice from the forum but I wish I had gone with 30 at least. I've tripped my breaker 10 times roughly and I want a setup where it never happens.

My system draws 1300watts RMS @ idle, and 2400watts RMS when thumping it near clipping, and the breakers I have them connected to can support 15600watts RMS.

Sounds pretty low for 10 amplifiers rated for 35kW peak across 22 channels and 5 breakers doesn't it? (YES, including a clone and an iTech 8000 etc...)
With my sound system, I've never popped a single breaker. But they ARE properly sized to spec.


The CV-5k is a class-H right? That's probably why you popped it. The voltage was probably sagging too, drawing even more current to make up for it.
The power supply of the clones is a switcher @ +90% efficient, where as Class-H is 50%, so (in theory) you could get 40% more power out of the same circuit before it popped just by using a different amp and changing nothing else.

The CV-5k outputting 600watts RMS x2, and dissipating the other 1200watts RMS as heat and then popping the breaker rated for 2400watts RMS. Physics sucks doesn't it? frown.gif
BassThatHz is offline  
post #36 of 247 Old 08-01-2013, 10:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,750
Mentioned: 148 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1330 Post(s)
Liked: 917
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

My system draws 1300watts RMS @ idle, and 2400watts RMS when thumping it near clipping, and the breakers I have them connected to can support 15600watts RMS.

Sounds pretty low for 10 amplifiers rated for 35kW peak across 22 channels and 5 breakers doesn't it? (YES, including a clone and an iTech 8000 etc...)
With my sound system, I've never popped a single breaker. But they ARE properly sized to spec.


The CV-5k is a class-H right? That's probably why you popped it. The voltage was probably sagging too, drawing even more current to make up for it.
The power supply of the clones is a switcher @ +90% efficient, where as Class-H is 50%, so (in theory) you could get 40% more power out of the same circuit before it popped just by using a different amp and changing nothing else.

The CV-5k outputting 600watts RMS x2, and dissipating the other 1200watts RMS as heat and then popping the breaker rated for 2400watts RMS. Physics sucks doesn't it? frown.gif

The runs are pretty long to from the box, outside the house, and then into the laundry room so I'm sure that doesn't help either.

Your post is another reason why I should be looking at the new peavey amps.
carp is offline  
post #37 of 247 Old 08-01-2013, 10:19 PM
Advanced Member
 
cookieattk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 638
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

My system draws 1300watts RMS @ idle, and 2400watts RMS when thumping it near clipping, and the breakers I have them connected to can support 15600watts RMS.

Sounds pretty low for 10 amplifiers rated for 35kW peak across 22 channels and 5 breakers doesn't it? (YES, including a clone and an iTech 8000 etc...)
With my sound system, I've never popped a single breaker. But they ARE properly sized to spec.


The CV-5k is a class-H right? That's probably why you popped it. The voltage was probably sagging too, drawing even more current to make up for it.
The power supply of the clones is a switcher @ +90% efficient, where as Class-H is 50%, so (in theory) you could get 40% more power out of the same circuit before it popped just by using a different amp and changing nothing else.

The CV-5k outputting 600watts RMS x2, and dissipating the other 1200watts RMS as heat and then popping the breaker rated for 2400watts RMS. Physics sucks doesn't it? frown.gif


clones are class h with smps
cookieattk is online now  
post #38 of 247 Old 08-02-2013, 09:30 AM
Advanced Member
 
MemX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 752
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 62
I didn't realise the CV5000s weren't Class D... I may have to reconsider them as an option...

I want to avoid the apparent rolloff of the iNukes at c.10Hz but I also don't want to risk a potentially unreliable clone with no real aftersales support!
MemX is offline  
post #39 of 247 Old 08-02-2013, 10:00 AM
Senior Member
 
jonathanc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quick question, are the newer CHEAP class D amps ie inuke series good enough for full range speakers in regards to low distortion ?
jonathanc is offline  
post #40 of 247 Old 08-02-2013, 10:18 AM
Advanced Member
 
MemX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 752
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 62
I believe they are perfectly fine for full range use, yes.
MemX is offline  
post #41 of 247 Old 08-02-2013, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Gorilla83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Delaware County, PA
Posts: 3,654
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 319 Post(s)
Liked: 463
I've tried the Inuke6000 full range for mains and it definitely had no shortage of clean power.
Gorilla83 is offline  
post #42 of 247 Old 08-02-2013, 10:35 AM
Senior Member
 
jonathanc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 493
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

I've tried the Inuke6000 full range for mains and it definitely had no shortage of clean power.

So it's safe to say that the old class-d stereotype(no pun intended) of being not great with the high frequency stuff doesn't apply anymore ?
jonathanc is offline  
post #43 of 247 Old 08-02-2013, 10:45 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 18,242
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1234 Post(s)
Liked: 1552
6000 test for power

http://forum.speakerplans.com/behringer-inuke-nu6000-vs-kam-kxd7200-bench-tested_topic69202.html

3000 test includes frequency response

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/213071-behringer-inuke-nu3000-measurements.html

not sure if the upper end of the 6000 is the same as the 3000.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #44 of 247 Old 08-02-2013, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Gorilla83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Delaware County, PA
Posts: 3,654
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 319 Post(s)
Liked: 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post

So it's safe to say that the old class-d stereotype(no pun intended) of being not great with the high frequency stuff doesn't apply anymore ?

I'm not sure that it was ever a valid or legitimate concern. I now use a Crown Drivecore amp for my mains, also Class D. Sounds great, weighs nothing, it's quiet, and has plenty of low distortion power.
Gorilla83 is offline  
post #45 of 247 Old 08-03-2013, 03:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
whoaru99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,971
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Depends if you are playing music or test tones.

Music has a crest factor of at worst 6-8 dB. The standard HT reference setting scheme is based on a crest factor of 20 dB which is presumably reached only for short peaks. 20 dB = 100x peak to average ratio.

Going back to that utter worst case number of 6 dB, that is 4x power suggesting that your 20 amp circuit can actually support 9600 watts of real world music or movies.

Considering I have roughly 9kW of Crown and QSC power in my garage jam system on a single 20A breaker and have yet to trip it even at "call the Police" levels, I agree. Test tones at full power are not part of the play list though, to your point.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
whoaru99 is offline  
post #46 of 247 Old 08-03-2013, 04:26 AM
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,530
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 851 Post(s)
Liked: 1214
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonathanc View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post

I've tried the Inuke6000 full range for mains and it definitely had no shortage of clean power.

So it's safe to say that the old class-d stereotype(no pun intended) of being not great with the high frequency stuff doesn't apply anymore ?

The high frequency problem with Class D has two major components:

(1) Output device issues leading to a rise in high frequency nonlinear distortion
(2) High frequency source impedance issues related to the high level ultrasonic filter which ultimately traces back to switching speed issues with the output devices.

There has been progress in both these areas, and more can be expected.

Current performance of the best class D amplifiers is probably good enough right now so that there should be no audible artifacts.

However there are a lot of class D amps being sold, such as "T-amps" that are legacy designs and have these problems in spades.
arnyk is offline  
post #47 of 247 Old 08-27-2013, 08:44 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bhazard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 2,421
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Just ordered mine via gearclubdirect for a very good price (Under $500). These should hopefully match well with my 500w+ capable SEOS towers. Overkill? Yes. Dynamic headroom, you bet. My XPA-5 is up for sale because of it.

Am I the first to order it?
bhazard is offline  
post #48 of 247 Old 08-27-2013, 09:11 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 16,205
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2071 Post(s)
Liked: 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Just ordered mine via gearclubdirect for a very good price (Under $500). These should hopefully match well with my 500w+ capable SEOS towers. Overkill? Yes. Dynamic headroom, you bet. My XPA-5 is up for sale because of it.

Am I the first to order it?

Sweet! Please let us know what you think of it when you get it. I'm very interested in at least one if not several of these. Will clear up a significant amount of RU space and weight.

I haven't seen anyone else mention getting one of these so I think you're the first!

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz ***FOR SALE***

Plan9Reloaded Co-host
Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)
https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link
http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website
Scott Simonian is online now  
post #49 of 247 Old 08-27-2013, 09:19 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 18,242
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1234 Post(s)
Liked: 1552
"However there are a lot of class D amps being sold, such as "T-amps" that are legacy designs and have these problems in spades."

?

http://gr-research.com/amps/amps.htm

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #50 of 247 Old 08-27-2013, 09:45 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bhazard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 2,421
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Sweet! Please let us know what you think of it when you get it. I'm very interested in at least one if not several of these. Will clear up a significant amount of RU space and weight.

I haven't seen anyone else mention getting one of these so I think you're the first!

Make sure to call gearclubdirect for the price if you do. Its actually under $460 if you are close to IL, and they only have 3 left right now.
bhazard is offline  
post #51 of 247 Old 08-27-2013, 09:52 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 16,205
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2071 Post(s)
Liked: 1757
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Make sure to call gearclubdirect for the price if you do. Its actually under $460 if you are close to IL, and they only have 3 left right now.

Dayum. Nice deal! No, I live in California so I guess shipping would be more.... unless it's free. biggrin.gif

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz ***FOR SALE***

Plan9Reloaded Co-host
Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)
https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link
http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website
Scott Simonian is online now  
post #52 of 247 Old 08-27-2013, 09:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bhazard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 2,421
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 39
I'm in NY, so you wouldn't be far off price wise.
bhazard is offline  
post #53 of 247 Old 08-27-2013, 10:02 AM
Bass Enabler
 
Scott Simonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Clovis, CA
Posts: 16,205
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2071 Post(s)
Liked: 1757
Hmmm.... I actually "need" three too. tongue.gif

Agh! I guess I should at least use the amps I have now.....but only for now. biggrin.gif

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz ***FOR SALE***

Plan9Reloaded Co-host
Listen to the Plan9Reloaded Gaming and Technology Podcast (may contain NSFW language)
https://soundcloud.com/plan9reloaded/sets/podcast - direct pod link
http://plan9reloaded.com/site/ - main website
Scott Simonian is online now  
post #54 of 247 Old 08-27-2013, 01:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
maxmercy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,405
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Liked: 160
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Depends if you are playing music or test tones.

Music has a crest factor of at worst 6-8 dB. The standard HT reference setting scheme is based on a crest factor of 20 dB which is presumably reached only for short peaks. 20 dB = 100x peak to average ratio.

Going back to that utter worst case number of 6 dB, that is 4x power suggesting that your 20 amp circuit can actually support 9600 watts of real world music or movies.

I've measured films with 32+ dB crest factor.

JSS
maxmercy is offline  
post #55 of 247 Old 08-27-2013, 02:26 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
LTD02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 18,242
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1234 Post(s)
Liked: 1552
"The standard HT reference setting scheme is based on a crest factor of 20 dB which is presumably reached only for short peaks. 20 dB = 100x peak to average ratio."

that's not quite right. the "average" reference is targeted to about 85db in seat. the lfe channel comes in at 115db peak, or 30db higher, which is 1000x peak to 'average'.

good music recordings easily have 15db peak to average. horrible pop compressed recordings have peak to average in the 3-6db range.

Listen. It's All Good.
LTD02 is online now  
post #56 of 247 Old 08-28-2013, 01:18 PM
Ace of Bass
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 9,335
Mentioned: 97 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1756 Post(s)
Liked: 1405
Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 View Post

Test tones at full power are not part of the play list though, to your point.

And why not?!?!?! Haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhazard View Post

Just ordered mine via gearclubdirect for a very good price (Under $500). These should hopefully match well with my 500w+ capable SEOS towers. Overkill? Yes. Dynamic headroom, you bet. My XPA-5 is up for sale because of it.

Am I the first to order it?

I will be interested in your thoughts on this too biggrin.gif

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)
 
HT seats for sale!
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/211-ac...seat-rows.html
Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread
beastaudio is offline  
post #57 of 247 Old 08-28-2013, 02:06 PM
Member
 
DiscoDuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 107
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Back to the how many watts from a 20 amp receptacle discussion (saw this a little late): do not confuse alternating current watts at 120 volts and the rated output of an amplifier in watts as equal for determining how much power an outlet can deliver. My 1200 watt output rated rated amp consumes around 300 watts of 120v ac from the plug at reference levels and its not a terribly efficient design amp. Also dont forget that in the amp is the massive power supply which transforms the power to a lower voltage increasing the wattage ouput several fold. A circuit can deliver ten times the watts after a transformer has stepped down the voltage from 120 to 12 volts for instance.
DiscoDuck is offline  
post #58 of 247 Old 08-28-2013, 02:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Suntan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Twin Cities
Posts: 7,170
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 53 Post(s)
Liked: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscoDuck View Post

A circuit can deliver ten times the watts after a transformer has stepped down the voltage from 120 to 12 volts for instance.

Don't confuse wattage and amperage.

That said, yes, amp "watts" and "plug on the wall" watts are not exactly equal.

-Suntan
Suntan is offline  
post #59 of 247 Old 08-28-2013, 08:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
whoaru99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 6,971
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 68
Right. Using the 10 times example, a load drawing 10A at 12V through a 10:1 transformer will draw 1A @ 120V. The power (120 watts) is the same on both sides.

Of course, there is some loss so it's not exactly 100%, but it is relatively small and not considered for sake of discussion to make the point. Generally, an audio amp has much lower overall efficiency than simply considering a transformer so, yeah, power available on the output side will always be meaningfully less than on the input side, until we have superconducting amps then it won't be much of a factor to consider.

Just because there is a knob doesn't mean you should turn it.
whoaru99 is offline  
post #60 of 247 Old 08-29-2013, 12:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bhazard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 2,421
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 39
I should have mine today. Hopefully I have some time to hook it up.
bhazard is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Tags
Emotiva Xpa 5 5 Channel Power Amplifier

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off