First Ever Fusion-8 Alchemy MTM Build Thread, Piano Black Finish - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 130 Old 07-28-2013, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Got started on this a couple weeks ago, here is what I have done so far.


parts are here!


clamping the front baffle



clamping the top, bottom and sides. used 1 inch brad nails to help hold it in place


gluing the front and back on with some make-shift clamps


did about 5 coats of wood fill and sanding. Also put a 3/8" roundover on all the edges of the box.


Did two coats of primer and sanding today. Pretty much have a perfectly smooth box now. Going to fill/sand any last imperfections and then put a final coat of primer on. Then will put 12 coats of black lacquer and wet-sand 400 600 800 1000 2000 grit to get a nice piano black finish.

have the crossover built and tested, sounds great. Even without a box and with only 1 woofer attached it is soo much more sensitive than my paradigm speakers.
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post #2 of 130 Old 07-28-2013, 06:33 PM
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WOW! Nice job!
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post #3 of 130 Old 07-29-2013, 04:28 AM
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I can't wait to see the piano gloss finish! Can you tell me at what stages you use those particular grits of sand-paper? Do you use the 400-800 on the primer then use the 1000 and 2000 on the actual black paint? Or do you start with 400 and go to 2000 throughout the 12 different coats of black lacquer? Would you spray coat number one, wait to dry then sand with 400 grit, then spray coat #2 and sand with 600 grit, and so on.....? How long do you give it to dry in between coats? Are all of the sanding steps wet-sanded? Are you going to buff it at the end?
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post #4 of 130 Old 07-29-2013, 05:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

I can't wait to see the piano gloss finish! Can you tell me at what stages you use those particular grits of sand-paper? Do you use the 400-800 on the primer then use the 1000 and 2000 on the actual black paint? Or do you start with 400 and go to 2000 throughout the 12 different coats of black lacquer? Would you spray coat number one, wait to dry then sand with 400 grit, then spray coat #2 and sand with 600 grit, and so on.....? How long do you give it to dry in between coats? Are all of the sanding steps wet-sanded? Are you going to buff it at the end?

I used 220 grit on the wood filler and also on the primer. I also used a drywall screen sander on the wood filler to make it a flat surface so it wouldn't round over. 400 wet sand will be used in between the coats of black, and then 600 800 1000 2000 will be used on the final coat to polish it basically. I think I will do like 3 thin coats of black and then 400 wet sand it. You have to wet sand lacquer or it will all pull off into the sandpaper. The 220 grit for wood filler and primer was dry sanded. Yes I am going to buff it at the end, not sure how yet.

The 220 grit is fine enough to basically make both the wood filler and primer completely smooth. For sections that were a lot higher than what I wanted I used a bit of 180 grit.

I haven't actually started the black yet though so I might modify if I find someone isn't working that well or whatever. Will put final coat of primer on tonight.
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post #5 of 130 Old 07-29-2013, 06:04 AM
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Looks great!

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post #6 of 130 Old 07-29-2013, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by filtor1 View Post

WOW! Nice job!
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Looks great!

Thanks!
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post #7 of 130 Old 07-29-2013, 08:19 PM
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I'm going to apologise in advance for the dumb question. But, the description says that this design can be used vertically or horizontally as a center. I also noticed that it incorporates an eliptical waveguide. Would you not have to rotate the waveguide for horizontal placement? If that's the case.... the included baffle could not be used?

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post #8 of 130 Old 07-30-2013, 06:07 AM
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That's a good question ^

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post #9 of 130 Old 07-30-2013, 06:32 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by allanf714 View Post

I'm going to apologise in advance for the dumb question. But, the description says that this design can be used vertically or horizontally as a center. I also noticed that it incorporates an eliptical waveguide. Would you not have to rotate the waveguide for horizontal placement? If that's the case.... the included baffle could not be used?

Allan

I think Erich or Jeff would have to answer that, but from what I understand the waveguide will work fine sideways, as there was no option for a different baffle, and it was advertised to work horizontal or vertical. I assume because the waveguide is a lot more circular than the larger SEOS waveguides, and the speaker was designed with both alignments in mind.
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post #10 of 130 Old 07-30-2013, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

I think Erich or Jeff would have to answer that, but from what I understand the waveguide will work fine sideways, as there was no option for a different baffle, and it was advertised to work horizontal or vertical. I assume because the waveguide is a lot more circular than the larger SEOS waveguides, and the speaker was designed with both alignments in mind.

I'm making some assumptions here. But, it seems to me that most of these waveguides are utilized such the the dispersion is more wide than tall. It looks to me that this waveguide is not square, but rectagular. Along those lines.... it seems to me that a second baffle would have to be cut to account for a rotated waveguide in order to accomodate the "more wide than tall" dispersion. Perhaps the thinking is... this wave guide is not asssss wide as the regular SEOS guides. Accordingly, it still has adequate horizontal dispersion in the horizontal position without rotating the guide?

I love MTM's and would love to see a Fusion10 max MTM w/a flat pack. I think that kit in particular would take a bite out of JTR. I'm still trying to figure out how this kit has significantly more cone area than the Fusion 10..... but lower sensitivity. I'm sure the answer has something to do with the crossover smile.gif.

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post #11 of 130 Old 07-30-2013, 07:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The sensitivity on the spec sheet is not correct. It's the sensitivity of the Fusion 8. I'll test it when it's built, I'm gonna guess 97 dB. I think you are right about the dispersion.
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post #12 of 130 Old 08-05-2013, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
 
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finished the 3rd coat of primer, then filled a bunch of tiny imperfections, sanded, put more primer over the fillings, and repeated that about 10 times until it was finally perfectly smooth.

Did 3 quick coats of black lacquer today, using rustoleum high lustre black lacquer. http://www.amazon.com/home-improvement/dp/B000C01534

Will wet sand it tomorrow with 400 grit. Does anyone know how long you have to wait to sand it?

Already I can see myself in about half of the speaker.


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post #13 of 130 Old 08-05-2013, 04:33 PM
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Looking good!! Cant wait to hear your impressions on this speaker. I was going to build 3 of these as my LCR then changed my mind to the Tempests since I could find nobody's thoughts or impressions on these. Thinking I am going to hold off on the kit purchases until you are finished. Have you heard the tempests? I have heard nothing but good about those.

I have been picking up the miscellaneous supplies in the meantime. I already have a gallon of Duratex, speaker wire, polyfill, and such. It is getting hard not to place an order!!
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post #14 of 130 Old 08-05-2013, 04:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This will be my first SEOS speaker I've heard. Already just from playing the compression driver attached to the waveguide and 1 of the woofers in free air, I can tell it will sound amazing. I am going to build two tempests as my L/R later, not interested in a vertical speaker for my center.

There are no reviews yet because I am pretty sure this is the first one being built, hence the title "first ever" :P
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post #15 of 130 Old 08-05-2013, 04:47 PM
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Ahhh I assumed since the kit is available on the DIYS site that at least a few had been built smile.gif

I was not really liking the vertical center idea myself but I do have the space for it. I would just have to move my fixed frame screen up about two inches to accommodate the height.
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post #16 of 130 Old 08-05-2013, 06:13 PM
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[cartoon devil on shoulder] "C'mon, just toss the drivers in there, slap the crossovers together with alligator clips and post some listening impressions. You can always finish painting them later!" [/cartoon devil on shoulder] wink.gif
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post #17 of 130 Old 08-05-2013, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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haha, I'm gonna do 3 coats a day and let it dry overnight, so hopefully friday or saturday I will have it fully done and listen to it.
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post #18 of 130 Old 08-05-2013, 08:20 PM
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This will be my first SEOS speaker I've heard.

This will be your first EOS speaker. smile.gif That design uses the EOS-8, not a SEOS waveguide.

The box is coming along nicely.
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post #19 of 130 Old 08-06-2013, 05:22 AM
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Looks great! I am curious to hear your feedback and thoughts

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post #20 of 130 Old 08-06-2013, 05:31 AM
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Jwagstaff, I think that lacquer takes upwards of around 3 to 4 weeks to fully cure, at least, that is what I have read. I would recommend giving it at least 48 hours for time to dry & cure, then sand.
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post #21 of 130 Old 08-06-2013, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Jwagstaff, I think that lacquer takes upwards of around 3 to 4 weeks to fully cure, at least, that is what I have read. I would recommend giving it at least 48 hours for time to dry & cure, then sand.

I touched the speaker this morning, it is quite dry and hard already, so I think I will try a very light wet-sanding tonight to see how it goes. I think this is a fast-curing lacquer, it was dry within 30 seconds of spraying for the most part. It does take a really long time to fully cure, but you can sand before it's "fully" cured, aka rock hard. It's a "practical hardness" after just a day I read. It actually went on quite smooth, there is just a small texture from it being a spray, so I don't think I will have to sand it much at all. I have 1 small drip I will sand a bit, and also a small fingerprint :P

I also read that sanding it makes it cure exponentially faster, because you are exposing a ton of surface area which helps with evaporation.
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post #22 of 130 Old 08-06-2013, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

I touched the speaker this morning, it is quite dry and hard already, so I think I will try a very light wet-sanding tonight to see how it goes. I think this is a fast-curing lacquer, it was dry within 30 seconds of spraying for the most part. It does take a really long time to fully cure, but you can sand before it's "fully" cured, aka rock hard. It's a "practical hardness" after just a day I read. It actually went on quite smooth, there is just a small texture from it being a spray, so I don't think I will have to sand it much at all. I have 1 small drip I will sand a bit, and also a small fingerprint :P

I also read that sanding it makes it cure exponentially faster, because you are exposing a ton of surface area which helps with evaporation.

DON'T DO IT!!! I used Rustoleum Lacquer as well... It will feel hard but it still has not cured. You will have to wait at least a couple of weeks or more (one month is better) before you can wet sand... Otherwise you will have small chunks of lacquer peeling off and embedding in the sandpaper. That will gouge out the surface of the lacquer. I learned this through experience.

I find that Rustoleum Automotive Acrylic lacquer dries faster but it only comes in black and red. Since it is not a true nitro-cellulose lacquer, the finish is not quite as deep as the regular lacquer.

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
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post #23 of 130 Old 08-06-2013, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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so you think I should just put 12 coats on at once without sanding at all in between? eek.gif

what grit did you use? How hard did you sand? I want to just do a super light sanding to get it a little smoother in between coats.

how many coats did you put on before you tried sanding when it got wrecked? How thick were the coats?
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post #24 of 130 Old 08-06-2013, 09:39 AM
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I would never have the patience for a 1 month wait between applications. I am a 48 hour max kinda guy.
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post #25 of 130 Old 08-06-2013, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Just called rustoleum, they said 3 coats then wait overnight then wetsand is good. Then to wait 3 weeks after the final coat before putting some type of rubbing compound on it like turtle wax. I will start by sanding it very very lightly to make sure it won't peel off like what happened to Jon S, and if I see it start peeling I will just stop and wait longer to sand. I really hope I don't have to wait more than a day though I want this done! lol
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post #26 of 130 Old 08-06-2013, 12:57 PM
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Grab a scrap piece of wood on the side and do whatever you want on it first, then you can confirm how long is enough..
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post #27 of 130 Old 08-06-2013, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just wet sanded the whole box with 400 grit then put 3 more coats of black lacquer on. Went perfectly. Box is so smooth already, I would be happy with it if I stopped right now. I put some lacquer on and tried to sand it just after 2 minutes, and it sanded perfectly. Maybe it's because I have 4 coats of shellac based primer underneath it I am able to sand it well? Jon, did you have any primer under your lacquer? I have used a whole spray can for each 3 coats, so I've used up 2 and will use 2 more.

I love working with this lacquer, it dries fast, goes on easy, sands easy and looks amazing. After touching it after drying overnight it is rock solid. Going to be a very nice finish.
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post #28 of 130 Old 08-06-2013, 06:10 PM
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Next time you're taking photos, can you take a photo of the actual cans your using? I wouldn't mind trying it out.
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post #29 of 130 Old 08-06-2013, 06:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Next time you're taking photos, can you take a photo of the actual cans your using? I wouldn't mind trying it out.

sure, I will take a pic tomorrow, but this is the exact stuff, I got it from home depot though, and its 8 bucks in Canada instead of 4.47 frown.gif http://www.amazon.com/home-improvement/dp/B000C01534
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post #30 of 130 Old 08-07-2013, 01:25 AM
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Can't wait to hear your impression on this speaker...

Hurry up with the lacquering.. hehe
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