Behringer ep4000 and dayton 18" sub help, weak sound - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 46 Old 07-29-2013, 08:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I finished building my sub combo pack from PE yesterday.

I hooked up the behringer ep4000 to 1 sub to test it. The sub was very weak, it played a little, but it was weak even with the gain turned up. I plugged the same input into my BIC PL200 and it sounded strong.

I don't know what is wrong. I don't think i've connected the wires wrong. The sub box is built well and inside is caulked with silicone.

The wires i am using is 14 gauge, is that enough or is it too small? This is the same wire as what i am using for my other speakers. Got this wire monoprice.

It just sounds like the amp is not sending enough power to the subs.

How do i set the limiter switches?

I am planning on running it stereo to 2 subs.

attached are 3 pics of my connections, any tips. Is it possible i have a bad amp?



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post #2 of 46 Old 07-29-2013, 08:58 PM
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Common occurrence with pro amps running off the receivers output, it's not sending enough voltage. The gain on the amp needs to be up all the way, and you may have to set the sub channel on the receiver to +10 (or whatever the highest is) and then re adjust all of the other channels. If that still doesnt work you might have to add something between the receiver and amp to boost the signal.
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post #3 of 46 Old 07-29-2013, 09:32 PM
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The pro amp just requires a more powerful signal
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post #4 of 46 Old 07-29-2013, 09:34 PM
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The bic sub is made to be used with consume gear that run at a low voltage. The behringer is meant to be used with pro gear that run at a higher voltage. That doesn't mean you cant use pro gear with consumer electronics. A lot of receivers shouldn't have a problem with pro gear but there are some that just output a low voltage.
You can buy a converter box that will bump up the voltage. Not sure what is the best one right now.
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post #5 of 46 Old 07-29-2013, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Common occurrence with pro amps running off the receivers output, it's not sending enough voltage. The gain on the amp needs to be up all the way, and you may have to set the sub channel on the receiver to +10 (or whatever the highest is) and then re adjust all of the other channels. If that still doesnt work you might have to add something between the receiver and amp to boost the signal.

so i took your advice, went to receiver and bumped up the SW to +12 ( max). the sub hit much harder then before, but not mind blowing hard for an 18". One thing to note is that the input cable is around 25 feet long. the future cable will be 6 feet long. Does the 25ft create a drop in signal voltage? Anything I can do to bump the signal?

At the worst, i can drop all the speakers down a - 5 or more and let the volume compensate to make the subs louder. The subs do hit clean though.
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post #6 of 46 Old 07-29-2013, 09:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrkazador View Post

The bic sub is made to be used with consume gear that run at a low voltage. The behringer is meant to be used with pro gear that run at a higher voltage. That doesn't mean you cant use pro gear with consumer electronics. A lot of receivers shouldn't have a problem with pro gear but there are some that just output a low voltage.
You can buy a converter box that will bump up the voltage. Not sure what is the best one right now.

thanks for your continued support! i'll test it out in more tomorrow. Currently i'm using my pioneer 7.1 receiver(1020k), but the reciever ill be using for these subs are the pioneer 1522k 9.2
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post #7 of 46 Old 07-29-2013, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

The pro amp just requires a more powerful signal

if a take a voltage reader to the receiver subwoofer out cable, what is a good rating i should be seeing?


another issue i am having is there is a slight buzzing in the subwoofer. Is this coming from the line? How do i test it?
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post #8 of 46 Old 07-29-2013, 09:43 PM
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Disconnect all speakers.
Play a 60hz sinewave.
Set all speaker trims to 0db and master volume at 0db.

Measure the AC voltage from the sub output. I think the ep4000 needs something like 1.2v for full power.
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post #9 of 46 Old 07-29-2013, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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any tips on the buzzing in the subwoofer?
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post #10 of 46 Old 07-29-2013, 10:56 PM
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That is a ground loop most likely cause by the cable tv line going into the set top box.

http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/connecting-your-system/ground-loops-eliminating-system-hum-and-buzz
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post #11 of 46 Old 07-30-2013, 04:40 AM
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Your problem is that you do not have the switches on the back set properly! Do a search and read up on how to properly set tte switches on the rear panel. I never could figure out how to set mine by reading the manual, as it is like reading a foreign language. But I ended up just PM'ing another member that also had an EP4000 and he told me what position each of the switches should be.

(note that the switches are very tiny and are located on the back panel of the amp.)
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post #12 of 46 Old 07-30-2013, 06:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

Common occurrence with pro amps running off the receivers output, it's not sending enough voltage. The gain on the amp needs to be up all the way, and you may have to set the sub channel on the receiver to +10 (or whatever the highest is) and then re adjust all of the other channels. If that still doesnt work you might have to add something between the receiver and amp to boost the signal.

I don't think this is true with the ep4000. With the ep4000 dial on max, my receiver sets the subwoofer to -15 dB.

I think the switches are probably wrong. Even one wrong switch can make the ep4000's power go to very little.
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post #13 of 46 Old 07-30-2013, 08:27 AM
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OP try setting the switches on the back of the ep4000 1,3,4,5,8,10 to the right and leaving 2,6,7,9 to the left. You only need one input and having switches 4&5 to the right runs the output in parallel out to each of the 2 subs. This basically does the same as running in stereo.
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post #14 of 46 Old 07-30-2013, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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i do agree the switches have not been set. I will read up and test it tonight. Running 2 subs in stereo. Turning off all the filters as well.
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post #15 of 46 Old 07-30-2013, 10:08 AM
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I dont have an ep4k so that's good to hear, just trying to help the op realize all equipment isn't the same. Sounds like you guys have it figured out with the switches.
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Originally Posted by JWagstaff View Post

I don't think this is true with the ep4000. With the ep4000 dial on max, my receiver sets the subwoofer to -15 dB.

I think the switches are probably wrong. Even one wrong switch can make the ep4000's power go to very little.
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post #16 of 46 Old 07-31-2013, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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i mentioned it in my other posts, but thanks to all, these 2 subs hit really hard and clean... i love a good sealed sub... i havent tested the voltage on the SW output line etc, but these guys are beasts...

How do i know when i am pushing the subs or the amp too much? Is that what the clipping red led means?
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post #17 of 46 Old 07-31-2013, 05:17 PM
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Im not too sure what the clip light is so correct me if im wrong..If the clipping light comes on then you've reached the max voltage the amp can accept (max watt output). You'll need to lower the gain.
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post #18 of 46 Old 07-31-2013, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyhigh123 View Post

any tips on the buzzing in the subwoofer?

I had the same exact problem as you. My sub wasn't hitting hard and was buzzing. I used what's commonly called a "cheater plug' and it fixed my issues. Google "cheater plug". I picked a few up at Wal-Mart for a couple bucks. It's a ground loop issue.

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post #19 of 46 Old 07-31-2013, 05:31 PM
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Just know that a cheater plug is not safe. Best to fix the problem properly.
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post #20 of 46 Old 07-31-2013, 07:44 PM
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Yes red means the amp is maxed out, which will cause the amp and sub to overheat and eventually smoke the weakest of the two, or both.
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Originally Posted by flyhigh123 View Post

any tips on the buzzing in the subwoofer?
Try disconnecting all inputs to your AVR see if it goes away, starting with the cable\sat box.

Start at the amp input cable and work your way upstream until you find the device that is causing the hum. Assuming it's not the amp by itself, you'll find it eventually.

You can try plugging everything into just one breaker (at a low volume) so that it doesn't blow, see if that works at all.
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post #21 of 46 Old 08-01-2013, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by homeskizzle View Post

I had the same exact problem as you. My sub wasn't hitting hard and was buzzing. I used what's commonly called a "cheater plug' and it fixed my issues. Google "cheater plug". I picked a few up at Wal-Mart for a couple bucks. It's a ground loop issue.

Greenville! Right down the road from me smile.gif

I suggest trying one of these to see if that takes care of your hum, and trash that cheater plug if it does:)

http://www.amazon.com/Viewsonics-VSIS-EU-Cable-Ground-Isolator/dp/B0017I3K9M

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #22 of 46 Old 08-01-2013, 07:03 PM
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Assuming you still have a hum problem:

Disconnect both of the rca adapters you are using, you need to isolate the signal common input from chassis ground in the EP.

1. If you can solder, order or pick up a male xlr connector somewhere, and use one end of your current rca connector cable, don't connect to XLR pin 1: center conductor to pin 2, shield to pin 3.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=092-011

2. Order or pick up an rca/xlr male adapter cable, open up the xlr end connector, and snip the jumper soldered to pin 1.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150902&p_id=4777&seq=1&format=2

Worth a shot, I and others I know had to do this.....
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post #23 of 46 Old 10-16-2013, 01:36 AM
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So, I'm having the same issue, except the buzzing (only occurs when I crank the gain up on the EP4000 to ridiculous levels, so I'm not worried about it being a ground loop).

I set the switches as recommended in this thread, but still get hardly any signal at all. So, what's the best signal booster? I found a couple, but the FR isn't amazing. If there are subsonic frequencies, I want to feel them, as the subs are capable of producing them. Am I screwed here?

Receiver is a Yamaha A800.
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post #24 of 46 Old 10-16-2013, 05:11 AM
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the ART CleanBox Pro is popular

http://artproaudio.com/artcessories/audio_solutions/product/cleanbox_pro/

miniDSP can also work

as for the EP4K settings, first check and make sure your not cutting the signal via the dip switches on the back, reset gain and trim levels, use pink noise to figure levels out. rerun room correction see what happens

I have 2 of the 18s , used to have a Yamaha RX-A3000 and i had to have the gain set to max on the EP ~0 on the AVR

Running the Onkyo 818, gain on the EP is about 1/2 (noonish position) and the AVR sets the subs to -5 or so
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post #25 of 46 Old 10-16-2013, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silock View Post

So, I'm having the same issue, except the buzzing (only occurs when I crank the gain up on the EP4000 to ridiculous levels, so I'm not worried about it being a ground loop).

With an EP it is likely gain needs to be all the way up, you should not have hum at any level. Do this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhillsguy View Post

1. If you can solder, order or pick up a male xlr connector somewhere, and use one end of your current rca connector cable, don't connect to XLR pin 1: center conductor to pin 2, shield to pin 3.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=092-011

2. Order or pick up an rca/xlr male adapter cable, open up the xlr end connector, and snip the jumper soldered to pin 1.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150902&p_id=4777&seq=1&format=2
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post #26 of 46 Old 10-16-2013, 10:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silock View Post

So, I'm having the same issue, except the buzzing (only occurs when I crank the gain up on the EP4000 to ridiculous levels, so I'm not worried about it being a ground loop).

I set the switches as recommended in this thread, but still get hardly any signal at all. So, what's the best signal booster? I found a couple, but the FR isn't amazing. If there are subsonic frequencies, I want to feel them, as the subs are capable of producing them. Am I screwed here?

Receiver is a Yamaha A800.

are you sure you need a booster?

I went into my receiver software, and for the SW channel, i made it +10 and it is more than enough. I actually can barely turn up the knobs without it being too loud. Also, how long is your cord from the receiver to the subwoofer? If you could run a shorter one, it helps as well.
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post #27 of 46 Old 10-16-2013, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyhigh123 View Post

are you sure you need a booster?

I went into my receiver software, and for the SW channel, i made it +10 and it is more than enough. I actually can barely turn up the knobs without it being too loud. Also, how long is your cord from the receiver to the subwoofer? If you could run a shorter one, it helps as well.

Even with the SW level at ten and the gain all on EP all the way up, I get barely anything. And by barely, I mean I have to put my ear to the port to hear anything at all. I heard some noise running the YPAO program, but anything else is almost nothing. The cable from the receiver to the EP is 18".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibuna View Post

the ART CleanBox Pro is popular

http://artproaudio.com/artcessories/audio_solutions/product/cleanbox_pro/

miniDSP can also work

as for the EP4K settings, first check and make sure your not cutting the signal via the dip switches on the back, reset gain and trim levels, use pink noise to figure levels out. rerun room correction see what happens

I have 2 of the 18s , used to have a Yamaha RX-A3000 and i had to have the gain set to max on the EP ~0 on the AVR

Running the Onkyo 818, gain on the EP is about 1/2 (noonish position) and the AVR sets the subs to -5 or so

I've followed everything in this thread. Dip switches are 1,3,4,5,8,10 left, the rest right.

I'll try snipping a jumper if necessary after I get some signal.
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post #28 of 46 Old 10-16-2013, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silock View Post

Dip switches are 1,3,4,5,8,10 left, the rest right. I'll try snipping a jumper if necessary after I get some signal.

Your current setup:
INPUT 1
1 Left = Clip Limiter OFF.......OK
2 Right = Low Cut Filter 30 Hz.....OK, but move Switches 3 and 8 to right
3 Left = Low Cut Filter ON......MOVE TO RIGHT
MODES
4 Left = Stereo Inputs.....OK, keep as is if using TWO INPUTS (or one for one sub)
5 Left = Stereo Inputs.....OK, keep as is if using TWO INPUTS (or one for one sub)
6, 7 Right = Bridge Mode ON.....OK if using BRIDGE MODE, MOVE TO LEFT FOR TROUBLESHOOTING AND USE ONE INPUT/SUB
INPUT 2
8 Left = Low Cut Filter ON......MOVE TO RIGHT
9 Right = Low Cut Filter 30 Hz.....OK, but move Switches 3 and 8 to right
10 Left = Clip Limiter OFF.......OK

ONLY MOVE SWITCHES WHEN POWERED OFF!
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post #29 of 46 Old 10-16-2013, 01:00 PM
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If that doesn't work, we might look at the cable between your avr and the sub amp. What are you currently using?

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #30 of 46 Old 10-16-2013, 01:05 PM
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Well, I turned down all the other speakers' levels to -10, and cranked everything else up and definitely got more volume, but the EP showed red light clipping at anything approaching "loud." I went ahead and ordered the CleanboxPro.

Cable is a monoprice RCA -> XLR.
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