8' Tall, Stereo Integrity HT15D2 Tapped Horn Sub - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 07-30-2013, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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In the spirit of "more is better" and "too much is not enough" I built a tapped horn out of a Stereo Integrity HT15D2.

8' Tall

~240lbs.

And capable of a ton of clean output.

It took just under three sheets of plywood to build. All joints are screwed and glued with a glue cleat on every joint. There are a series of braces running front to back so there's never more than ~6-8 inches of un-braced panel with the exception of the mouth.

In testing, at 30Hz in the garage I stopped at roughly 14 watts of the 1400 available because I thought the garage door was coming off the rollers.

I created some filters using the simulated output of the horn to flatten the response a bit, and given the silly excursion of the woofer (it can't be bottomed using the bash amp in free air) I put in some 20Hz boost before the 15Hz cut.

The result is the first time I can honestly say I've ever heard truly effortless bass. For music, or HT use at any level that won't get the cops called on you (and even some that will) I can only feel a few mm of travel on the woofer. This on a woofer that's rated for 22mm linear one way XMAX and roughly double that for mechanical. I would be afraid of losing a window.

At high output putting your head near the mouth of this thing is a bit like getting a demo from a car that can do a "hair trick". biggrin.gif

8' Tall, Stereo Integrity HT15D2 Tapped Horn Sub..... - YouTube

Sharp eyed viewers will notice the whole 240+ lb sub moving itself on its casters at 20 seconds.

They will also notice I'm using my Federal jury summons as the demo paper. (sigh)

Usually, the following disclaimer (or something like it) is reserved for car audio. Any distortion you hear is objects rattling, including windows, mini-blinds, AC ducts, computer cases, the paper flopping about, or microphone overload and kittens. It's not the sub distorting....the amp I'm using for the demo can only provide 33% of the power needed to hit xmech for this driver.

Yup. There's more in the tank.

Scott





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post #2 of 32 Old 07-30-2013, 11:19 AM
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Looks like you've gotta lot of power on tap. I like how you integrated it in your room.
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post #3 of 32 Old 07-30-2013, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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In the video it's being powered by a Bash 500. The Mackie is used as a high power amp when the fan noise won't be objectionable. To hit Xmech would need about 1400 watts or more from any frequency between about 18Hz up.....

Scott
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post #4 of 32 Old 07-30-2013, 12:54 PM
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That's pretty sick, nice job!
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post #5 of 32 Old 07-30-2013, 01:11 PM
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Nice first post, welcome ! Quite ambitious. Imagine a 500watt amp running at 33% and driving that sub so to those levels....cool.
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post #6 of 32 Old 07-30-2013, 01:25 PM
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Nice!!!!
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post #7 of 32 Old 07-30-2013, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh...I have no idea how close to clipping the Bash was...the 33% is in reference to the actual power needed to Xmech the driver at most frequencies being at least 3X what the bash could deliver maximum. I'd be surprised if the Bash was over a couple hundred watts. When I tested with the Mackie I was afraid to take it over 14 watts in the garage. I cannot understate the violence with which the sub will reproduce clean bass. You can't see it in the video but the hair on my arm was really moving with the sound. I have a cat who has zero fear of loud noises, she walked right up to it and the longer fluff was doing a total autosound hair trick. Unfortunately I didn't get that on video....
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post #8 of 32 Old 07-30-2013, 03:40 PM
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How would this sub compare to the F20? How low will this baby go down to? Any chance you might post all of the build pics and details?
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post #9 of 32 Old 07-30-2013, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

How low will this baby go down to? Any chance you might post all of the build pics and details?

+1
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post #10 of 32 Old 07-30-2013, 04:37 PM
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Great build! What a sight to see...and hear no doubt.

If one can actually put something like this is his home without getting served divorce papers, awesome. Else, I'm happy for the others (like me, lol) who have some great options in the Dayton and SI 18's where you can spend less than a grand on 4 drivers, build a couple of simple cabinets and have more bass than most will ever use in most rooms.


What monster though, nice! biggrin.gif

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #11 of 32 Old 07-30-2013, 08:00 PM
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"How would this sub compare to the F20? How low will this baby go down to?"

he posted the hornresp data. perhaps grab hornresp and give it a lookee. if you have a careful eye, you can also see that the frequency response is at the bottom of his max spl plot. it is a little choppy at the upper end**, which is expected and the lower end extension is in the low 20's which is about right for a horn of that length.

personally...i think it looks pretty cool. :-) darn stealthy look for an 8 foot tall monolith. neat.

also, 0.5 space might overshoot the actual results by a bit (or a lot) depending on the room.







** the danley th50 had a fairly similar response btw.

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post #12 of 32 Old 07-30-2013, 08:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Great build! What a sight to see...and hear no doubt.

If one can actually put something like this is his home without getting served divorce papers, awesome. Else, I'm happy for the others (like me, lol) who have some great options in the Dayton and SI 18's where you can spend less than a grand on 4 drivers, build a couple of simple cabinets and have more bass than most will ever use in most rooms.


What monster though, nice! biggrin.gif

James

Funny thing is, if I built 4X HT15's...sealed at 70 liters that would be 280L. This sub is larger at 460....but not by so much that it makes that big of a difference. The footprint is a little under 2.5 square feet...and after my wife saw it she said...."why didn't you just build it into the house?" Next time.

And here's the real kicker...the whole thing is under $400 including casters, excluding amp.

There is 13dB of output difference between a sealed 70L and this beast. I'd have to buy 4 drivers just to keep up...that's $600 in drivers alone. That's where the magic of a tapped horn is. If you're willing to accept that you'll use at least as much, if not more cabinet volume you can get multiple driver output for the cost of a little space, plywood and huge savings on a single driver. If I asked for $600 for drivers, then built 4 boxes...it would have been a no.

I retired a dual Peerless XLS 12" + dual Peerless XLS passive radiator because a single 8" Dayton Classic Subwoofer (4 ohm, copper cap, bumped back plate) sounded better in a tapped horn. (Peerless sub is for sale if anyone in Austin want's it...too big to ship.) This thing destroys the Peerless sub.

Scott
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post #13 of 32 Old 07-30-2013, 08:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"How would this sub compare to the F20? How low will this baby go down to?"

he posted the hornresp data. perhaps grab hornresp and give it a lookee. if you have a careful eye, you can also see that the frequency response is at the bottom of his max spl plot. it is a little choppy at the upper end**, which is expected and the lower end extension is in the low 20's which is about right for a horn of that length.

personally...i think it looks pretty cool. :-) darn stealthy look for an 8 foot tall monolith. neat.

also, 0.5 space might overshoot the actual results by a bit (or a lot) depending on the room.







** the danley th50 had a fairly similar response btw.

Yeah, just looked up the F-20. Tough to compare...completely different horns. Either way....they'll rattle your eyeballs. The F-20 is in a slightly larger cabinet......volume wise. I like tapped horns a lot because they can be stupid easy to build. No chamber to deal with.
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post #14 of 32 Old 07-30-2013, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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So these are the only drawings I used for the build. There is some details about bracing that are obviously left out. I added those as I built it...I'm working on a 60x60 synergy for the fronts right now...so I won't have the time to go back and document bracing. Add some. It'll need it. Rip the extra plywood into 3/4" x 3/4" cleats to serve as glue/screw surface area. You'll also be surprised at how much that stiffens up the panels. At low frequency it helps a lot. Every single glue joint needs a cleat. I added handles to the top and bottom, as well as the back of the cabinet so that I could get it up a flight of stairs with a buddies help. It's not that bad without the woofer. With the woofer...it's heavy.

Scott
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post #15 of 32 Old 07-30-2013, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

How would this sub compare to the F20? How low will this baby go down to? Any chance you might post all of the build pics and details?

There's really not much to the build. It's a simple single fold tapped horn with bracing. The hardest part is getting the woofer into the thing without crushing the surround against the cutout hole. I built the cabinet in a day. Painted it the next day...and the next weekend it was up in the theater room. I think I spent far more hours comparing the Ultimax-15, SI 15, CSS 12, and a billion other drivers before deciding this was the one for me.

A billion may be an exaggeration.

A little exaggeration.

Okay it was 20.

Scott
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post #16 of 32 Old 07-31-2013, 04:49 AM
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I currently have some UM15's in sealed cabinets that are being powered by an EP4k. The problem is that I am not happy with the extension or output and would like to improve upon things for my theater. It would probably help if I had a MiniDsp to EQ and boost the bottom end of my UM15's.

I may look at building 2 new ported cabinets with my UM15's, or purchase 2 more and then purchase a MiniDsp and run them sealed. Decisions decisions!

I do like this horn sub that you built! I would love to hear a really good horn sub one day. I have only heard one in a car.
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post #17 of 32 Old 07-31-2013, 04:50 AM
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Such an awesome build biggrin.gif


I'm guessing using the Bash amp that can't bottom the driver, even in free air, means that you have the protection needed when it drops off underneath the tuning point? (15Hz?)

I need to download and learn hornresponse - currently I'm thinking of 4xSIs in a sealed setup as us UK people are a lot more space limited than you US guys, but even with import costs, it would appear I could build something like this for only about £300 (c.$500) excluding amplification...

That said, I do like my ULF so I may have to stick to sealed!
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post #18 of 32 Old 07-31-2013, 05:06 AM
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Best thing about this build is the seamless integration into the room - wins an award for high WAF in my book.
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post #19 of 32 Old 07-31-2013, 05:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MemX View Post

Such an awesome build biggrin.gif


I'm guessing using the Bash amp that can't bottom the driver, even in free air, means that you have the protection needed when it drops off underneath the tuning point? (15Hz?)

I need to download and learn hornresponse - currently I'm thinking of 4xSIs in a sealed setup as us UK people are a lot more space limited than you US guys, but even with import costs, it would appear I could build something like this for only about £300 (c.$500) excluding amplification...

That said, I do like my ULF so I may have to stick to sealed!

I use a mini-dsp for equalization and low frequency protection. The image is the predicted excursion with a high pass filter at 16Hz, 8'th order, with a 500W amp at full power. You can see the driver is never in danger. Almost 3/4" peak to peak away from mechanical limits.



I know the BASH amp has been through several iterations...but for mine if you clip it a couple of times it goes into self-protect and shuts off. I've never heard it clip, and it's never shut off. I used to have dual Peerless XLS 12's with dual PRS...and then I moved to an 8" tapped horn (which had just as much output) using a Dayton Classic 8" 4 ohm sub. I've clipped the amp into both of those to get the output I wanted. The relatively high sensitivity of this thing is a huge bonus. Below is a 70L sealed SI sub (15") and the tapped horn, both corner loaded at 2.83V.

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post #20 of 32 Old 07-31-2013, 06:01 AM
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Thanks for the detailed information smile.gif

That output is pretty crazy!!

I've always thought that I should work towards staying within XMax rather than XMech but it would seem to be ok to work in the gap between the two on a limited basis?


You are almost making me think I should abandon my quest for single digits and just go for mental headroom tongue.gif lol
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post #21 of 32 Old 07-31-2013, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is another way to look at it...max output, power and excursion limited to 600W/22mm...the rated limits of the driver.
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post #22 of 32 Old 07-31-2013, 06:49 AM
 
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man this sub is such a beast. nice job.
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post #23 of 32 Old 07-31-2013, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
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I use a mini-dsp for equalization and low frequency protection. The image is the predicted excursion with a high pass filter at 16Hz, 8'th order, with a 500W amp at full power. You can see the driver is never in danger. Almost 3/4" peak to peak away from mechanical limits.



I know the BASH amp has been through several iterations...but for mine if you clip it a couple of times it goes into self-protect and shuts off. I've never heard it clip, and it's never shut off. I used to have dual Peerless XLS 12's with dual PRS...and then I moved to an 8" tapped horn (which had just as much output) using a Dayton Classic 8" 4 ohm sub. I've clipped the amp into both of those to get the output I wanted. The relatively high sensitivity of this thing is a huge bonus. Below is a 70L sealed SI sub (15") and the tapped horn, both corner loaded at 2.83V.


Nice build,

if you have SI HT15D2 as 4 ohms wired for the right graf Hornresp presentation you should use 0,5 Pi and 2,0V not 2,83V
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Maybe I missed it somewhere but have you taken a frequency response measurement in your room to see how its actually doing vs what Hornsrep theorized? Just curious biggrin.gif

Scott
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post #25 of 32 Old 07-31-2013, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Nice build,

if you have SI HT15D2 as 4 ohms wired for the right graf Hornresp presentation you should use 0,5 Pi and 2,0V not 2,83V

Yes, for 1W "efficiency". The point of the graph was to show the output gain of the tapped horn concept vs. sealed. The magnitudes of both plots would drop, but their relative position to each other would not change.
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post #26 of 32 Old 07-31-2013, 08:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Maybe I missed it somewhere but have you taken a frequency response measurement in your room to see how its actually doing vs what Hornsrep theorized? Just curious biggrin.gif

Scott

No, I did some basic RTA to set gains and crossover. I did measure the 8" tapped horn I built a while back and it was really close, surprisingly so actually. When I get some time to do it, I'll make more measurments on this beast...but right now I'm focusing on getting my 60x60 three way Synergy style horns designed. Just finished my 3'rd prototype, 5'th variation of midrange porting/driver combos and I'm about to putty that one up and re-drill to try something else yet again.

Scott
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post #27 of 32 Old 07-31-2013, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpeakerScott View Post

Funny thing is, if I built 4X HT15's...sealed at 70 liters that would be 280L. This sub is larger at 460....but not by so much that it makes that big of a difference. The footprint is a little under 2.5 square feet...and after my wife saw it she said...."why didn't you just build it into the house?" Next time.

And here's the real kicker...the whole thing is under $400 including casters, excluding amp.

There is 13dB of output difference between a sealed 70L and this beast. I'd have to buy 4 drivers just to keep up...that's $600 in drivers alone. That's where the magic of a tapped horn is. If you're willing to accept that you'll use at least as much, if not more cabinet volume you can get multiple driver output for the cost of a little space, plywood and huge savings on a single driver. If I asked for $600 for drivers, then built 4 boxes...it would have been a no.

I retired a dual Peerless XLS 12" + dual Peerless XLS passive radiator because a single 8" Dayton Classic Subwoofer (4 ohm, copper cap, bumped back plate) sounded better in a tapped horn. (Peerless sub is for sale if anyone in Austin want's it...too big to ship.) This thing destroys the Peerless sub.

Scott

Trust me, I understand your angle completely.

But if we're being honest, your beast is MUCH larger than (4) 70l cabs...about 65% so. And then of course the real "problem" is that singular size. Definitely a less expensive and even superior way to go in some scenarios though, no doubt, if you can swing it. I'm simply expressing my thankfulness that there's affordable options for those of us who simply cannot get away with a frankenstein coffin. smile.giftongue.gifwink.gif

to think that this is still smaller than your monster is nearly impossible for me to do...I'd like to see this battleship!



I still don't know how I got away with (2) 200L+ cabs. Oh, that's right, they're going to end up in a dedicated basement room. smile.gif

...and don't think for a second that I never considered building a new equipment rack, ditching the gear in the front and adding a matching pair to the left side....you know, for the sake of symmetry. biggrin.gif


James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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post #28 of 32 Old 07-31-2013, 08:56 AM
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did you adjust the values in the amp? i'm pretty sure the bash 500 comes with a ~28hz high pass, q=1.4 filter stock, which is the same as a 28hz high pass q=0.70 with +6db of equalization q=1.4 at ~28hz.

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post #29 of 32 Old 07-31-2013, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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the bash filtering has been changed long ago, out of the box, onto the table...filter resistors changed, then into the system.... ;-)
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post #30 of 32 Old 08-05-2013, 10:27 AM
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This is a nice beast! Wish it dug just a little bit deeper... What happens if you widen the cab?

I'm building a pair of lil wreckers right now for a pair of ht15, I can't wait!
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