Mid-bass cabinets utilizating the JBL-2226 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 08-01-2013, 05:22 AM - Thread Starter
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I am looking at possibly building some mid-bass cabinets that use 1 JBL-2226 per cabinet for a total of 3 cabinets that will serve as stands for my LCR bookshelf speakers.

Currently, my LCR's are Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1's with the RAAL ribbon tweeter upgrade.

My questions are;
How would I go about integrating these mid-bass cabinets with my LCR's? Would a MiniDsp be a good way to do this? Which would be the best version of the 2226 to use? The 2226h or the 2226j? I believe one is 8 ohm & the other 16 ohm.

What hardware would be the best to use? I thought about picking up 3 Dayton or Bash 500 watt plate amps, and use the speaker connections on the plate amps to go from my receiver to the plate amps speaker connections and from there to my Sierra-1's.

Per LTD2's suggestion on another thread, I would like to build a cabinet tuned to 50hz and have it low passed to 200hz. I do not have any way to play with WinIsd due to my computer being in the shop. So I need someone to model this for me so that I can figure out the enclosure specs.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 33 Old 08-01-2013, 06:18 AM
 
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yeah I'd go with like an 8x8 minidsp or two 2x4 minidsp because you will need to active crossover the LCR + the 3 midbass so that's 3 speaker inputs and 6 outputs. The 8x8 is expensive at 400 bucks, you could get two 2x4 for like 250. the configuration would be easy, each signal you'd put say 200 hz HPF on the speakers and a 200 hz LPF and a 45 hz HPF on the midbass speakers or whatever you decide. I'd probably just go with like a 2nd or 3rd order HPF/LPF filter because your main speakers can easily go down to 80 hz I''d assume. Depending on what your amplifier can power (you'd need an amplifier for each speaker and one for each midbass so 6 channels) you could do one 8 ohm, dual 16 ohm ( for 8 ohm load), or dual 8 ohm (for 4 ohm load). I don't know why you would use plate amps, you'd need 6 so that would be 1200 bucks. I'd go with like a inuke nu-4 6000 and then another 2 ch amp maybe an inuke 3000 or ep4000 to get the 6 channels, which would only cost like 800 bucks and would take up way less space than 6 plate amps.
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post #3 of 33 Old 08-01-2013, 10:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Jwag, thanks for the reply. The thing is that I don't want to go active with the Sierra-1's, I just want to add a mid-bass cabinet to each of the LCR's. The way you described it would require me to remove the stock crossovers on my Sierra-1's, right? I just figured that I could build the cabs and purchase 3 plate amps that have regular speaker binding post in addition to the LFE connection. I would then run a speaker wire from each one of my AVR's LCR channels to each of the speaker input binding post on the plate amps of each cabinet and then run a speaker cable to each LCR speaker from each of the speaker outputs on each plate amp. Is this not the best way to do this?

Removing each of the stock crossover boards in my Sierra-1's is NOT an option! Someone suggested that I should run the mids and highs in my Sierra-1's passively and then cross them over to my mid-bass cabinets via an active crossover, but I have no idea how to do that? Would that not involve modifying the stock crossover in my Sierra-1's?
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post #4 of 33 Old 08-01-2013, 10:59 AM
 
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No the crossovers would still be in the Siera-1. Technically it's active, and passive. the minidsp actively splits the signal into low-mid frequency and then hig-mid and high frequency, and then the passive on the Siera-1 will split it again to high frequency and high-mid frequency. The way I suggested is exactly what you have in your last paragraph, active crossover for mid-bass cabinets and passively in your Siera's.
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post #5 of 33 Old 08-01-2013, 11:12 AM
 
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i drew you a picture



the siera will take the 200-20khz signal and use it's passive crossover to separate the high frequency into the tweeter and the lower frequencies into the woofer.

if you wanted, you could send 80-20khz to the siera and 80-200 hz to the separate mid speaker, or 20-200 hz to the separate mid, and 100 to 20khz to the siera, or anything you want. the minidsp will let you do anything.

I am not sure if you can run your siera's off your avr power, and then use your pre-outs to power mid woofers. If you can do that, you'd only need 3 amplifiers and just a normal 2x4 minidsp. I think most amplifiers can use their pre-outs and speaker binding posts at the same time, so you could probably do that. And then just get a inuke nu-4 and just use 3 channels, or get a 3-ch amp or whatever.
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post #6 of 33 Old 08-01-2013, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, that makes sence, thanks for the explanation. So if I get a MiniDsp 8 x 8 hd with advanced plug in, how hard is it to program the MiniDsp? Is there any free software that I can download to play with? What if I were to get 3 iNuke1000dsp amps and use each one to crossover, EQ, and power each of my LCR's? Oh wait, I forgot, they are only 2-channel.
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post #7 of 33 Old 08-01-2013, 06:09 PM
 
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3 inuke 1000dsp would work, as that gives you 6 channels, right? The dsp on inukes and minidsp is brutally easy to use. If you had any trouble, there are hundreds of people who can easily help you.

I don't think the inuke 1k dsp is a good value at all though, it's only like 125 wpc PEAK into 8 ohms. You'd be better running your siera's off your receiver and then your midbass off your pre-outs, and you'd only need 3 channels of amplification, so an inuke nu-4 6000 and a 2x4 minidsp (only 105 bucks) would work perfectly.
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post #8 of 33 Old 08-01-2013, 10:52 PM
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I'm curious why you think you need a pair of $500 woofers to run mid bass for some Sierra 1's? Something like this will easily cover up to 200hz and still completely surpass the capability of most any speakers, let alone a 5.25" 2 way

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=290-420

With 400 watts, right at xmax. A pair of 4" x 9.25" ports would work
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post #9 of 33 Old 08-02-2013, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

I'm curious why you think you need a pair of $500 woofers to run mid bass for some Sierra 1's? Something like this will easily cover up to 200hz and still completely surpass the capability of most any speakers, let alone a 5.25" 2 way

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=290-420

With 400 watts, right at xmax. A pair of 4" x 9.25" ports would work

Jay, I paid only $150 each for the one that I already purchased last month, and I plan on buying 2 more in 3 weeks when I get my semi-annual bonus. I will get them from the same guy for only $150 each. That makes these an incredible value!
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post #10 of 33 Old 08-02-2013, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
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3 inuke 1000dsp would work, as that gives you 6 channels, right? The dsp on inukes and minidsp is brutally easy to use. If you had any trouble, there are hundreds of people who can easily help you.

I don't think the inuke 1k dsp is a good value at all though, it's only like 125 wpc PEAK into 8 ohms. You'd be better running your siera's off your receiver and then your midbass off your pre-outs, and you'd only need 3 channels of amplification, so an inuke nu-4 6000 and a 2x4 minidsp (only 105 bucks) would work perfectly.

I think that the iNuke 1000dsp will do 300 watts, and since it has built in DSP, that is likely what I will use. (I think?). It's either that, or a trio of Behringer EP1,500's with a MiniDsp. Only thing is that I don't know how much power that RAAL ribbon tweeter can handle.

So with regards to the MiniDsp and the iNuke's possible EQ & crossover....would I just go into the setup menu and set one channel on each amp to have a HPF of 200hz and a LPF of 20khz for one channel and then a HPF of say....60hz and a LPF of say...200hz on the other channel? Would there be any other settings to mess with? I would also be interested in EQ'ing my LCR's to sound better in my room. I appreciate you help Jwag and Jay!
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post #11 of 33 Old 08-02-2013, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post

Jay, I paid only $150 each for the one that I already purchased last month, and I plan on buying 2 more in 3 weeks when I get my semi-annual bonus. I will get them from the same guy for only $150 each. That makes these an incredible value!

Well alright then, that is an awesome deal!
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post #12 of 33 Old 08-02-2013, 12:35 PM
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Jay, I paid only $150 each for the one that I already purchased last month, and I plan on buying 2 more in 3 weeks when I get my semi-annual bonus. I will get them from the same guy for only $150 each. That makes these an incredible value!

So I am guessing you don't want those 2225's I was holding for you? Good to know. Good to know.

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post #13 of 33 Old 08-02-2013, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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So I am guessing you don't want those 2225's I was holding for you? Good to know. Good to know.

Actually yes I do, remember, I plan on using the 2225's for the Seos-15/BMS-4550/JBL2225 build that I am doing. I will be in touch soon.
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post #14 of 33 Old 08-05-2013, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, so now I need to design the enclosures for these JBL-2226J mid-bass drivers.

Should I go sealed, or ported? Which would be the easiest to intergrate, , and most optimal for this particular purpose?

What volume would be optimal? Ports? (If vented?) I would like for these to also serve as stands for my Sierra-1's so.....
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post #15 of 33 Old 08-05-2013, 10:04 AM
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How tall to the cabs need to be for your sierra's to be at ear height?

What subs do you have? If you put the JBL's in 1.75 ft3 sealed boxes they wont have any issue blending with a sub at 80hz, but if you want to cross lower then you'll need to go up to around 3 ft3. The tuning point can be chosen based on what your low frequency goal is, which you need to define.
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post #16 of 33 Old 08-06-2013, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Jay, the Suerra-1's are 14.25" tall, and I would prefer that the overall hight be ear level, which I am guessing would be around 38" to 42", I am 6'1" and my couch is average hight.

I am open to suggestions on frequency ranges, and enclosure design for optimazibg those particular frequency ranges. I have two Dayton UM-15's that I am building ported enclosures for. The UM15's will handle the low frequency ranges. Any suggestions and/or advice?
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post #17 of 33 Old 08-06-2013, 09:18 AM
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This box has a pair of 4" x 11" ports. The shallow roll off should allow a easy blend between 60-80hz. If you want something that's a little punchier, cut the port length down to 5" and you get this.

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post #18 of 33 Old 09-26-2013, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

I'm curious why you think you need a pair of $500 woofers to run mid bass for some Sierra 1's? Something like this will easily cover up to 200hz and still completely surpass the capability of most any speakers, let alone a 5.25" 2 way

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=290-420

With 400 watts, right at xmax. A pair of 4" x 9.25" ports would work

Ok so I am now getting ready to purchase the other drivers. I missed out on the deal for the JBL2226's, but I can get the 2225's for around $130 each. I am definitely interested in that Eminance driver that you linked to, but I must know, how would the 2225 or 2226 compare to this driver for 80hz to 200hz mid-bass duties?
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post #19 of 33 Old 09-26-2013, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
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This box has a pair of 4" x 11" ports. The shallow roll off should allow a easy blend between 60-80hz. If you want something that's a little punchier, cut the port length down to 5" and you get this.


Also, Jay, is this design for the Eminance that you linked to in a prior post? Or is this the 2226, and if so, could this same design aloso be used for the 2225? How would going with the 8 ohm or 16 ohm change the design? Or would it really even matter since I will be actively crossing it over?
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post #20 of 33 Old 09-26-2013, 11:34 AM
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Marty, you should look up the jbl w15gti sub, it will do very well up to 300hz and can get down below 20hz , but to employ that low and that high, the balance may be off. Too much low end will sound very muddy, and male voice sound out of balance.
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post #21 of 33 Old 09-27-2013, 05:21 AM - Thread Starter
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The JBL W15gti is a nice driver, unfortunately it is way beyond my budget. I can get the JBL 2226 or 2225 for under $175 each. I might be picking up two more 2225's for only $190 for the pair.

Another thing with regards to that W15gti is that it is designed as a subwoofer, not a typical woofer.
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post #22 of 33 Old 09-27-2013, 09:48 AM
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Don't think of its a sub but think of it as a speaker and its capability. It's good to 500hz. Very low inductance, similar to ae av15h
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post #23 of 33 Old 09-27-2013, 04:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Well regardless of whether it will work up to 500hz or not, that (sub)woofer is hella expensive. If I wanted to spend over $500 on each driver then I would just pick up a trio of AE TD18h woofers and never look back. Unfortunately I can not afford the TD18's either, and was hoping to keep the cost down to $200 or less per woofer.

How would the Eminance Delta Lite 2512's work as mid-bass woofers? What about some of the woofers from the likes of B&C? Keep in mind that what ever I go with needs to be under $200 each. I am most definitely not opposed to buying used. Right now I am thinking that some JBL 2225's or 2226's are still my best options as I can get the 2226's for around $180.00 each and the 2225's for around $140.00 each.
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post #24 of 33 Old 09-27-2013, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Jay, after looking closer to that Eminance Kappa Pro 15" that you linked to in a previous post, that seems to be a good driver. So that begs the question, how would that Eminance Kappa Pro 15" or the 2515 compare to the JBL 2226 of 2225? Keep in mind that I can get the 2226's used for $180.00 and the 2225's used for $140.00.
How much power would each of these woofers need to sound optimal in a small-ish to medium-ish sized room? I am still trying to decide on the amplification, but that will be between 3 Behinger iNuke 1000dsp's, one for each LCR channel, or 3 of the regular non-dsp iNuke 1000's with two 2 by 4 MiniDsp's with advanced plug in. Still trying to decide on that.
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post #25 of 33 Old 09-27-2013, 04:58 PM
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Check your local Craigslist. My area has them for 200 very often.
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post #26 of 33 Old 09-28-2013, 05:22 AM - Thread Starter
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So, specifically, how does that Eminence Kappa Pro 15" that Jay linked to compare to the JBL-2226 or 2225? Also, how do you guys feel about the Delta Lite 2515?

I still think that for the price of the 2226 @$180.00 or the 2225 @$130.00, these would be the best performers of the group, for less money, right?

Problem is that I can't know for sure until I model them. Only problem with modeling is that I don't have the winIsd software.

Can someone tell me which version of winISD would be best for my HP Pavilion Slimline desktop computer that runs Windows 7?
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post #27 of 33 Old 09-28-2013, 05:43 AM
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Why the focus on 15" drivers to mate up with a 87db sensitivy speaker? A 10-12 would play plenty loud to integrate?

Are you gonna run these full range? Where are you gonna cross to subs?

If 50-60Hz is the goal a 12 would be my choice. However if your looking below 50hz a 15 might work better.

My point is your throwing away so much sensitivity on the bass bin a 12 could keep up easily down to 50hz and generally be easier to work with.
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post #28 of 33 Old 09-28-2013, 05:44 AM
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Use the winISD beta that can be found on their Facebook page.
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post #29 of 33 Old 09-28-2013, 08:01 AM
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Use the winISD beta that can be found on their Facebook page.
Beta is too rudimentary, it only considers Fs, Vas and Qts. It's OK for a quick estimate of box size, but that's all. For accurate results use Alpha Pro.

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post #30 of 33 Old 09-28-2013, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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I will try and down load winISD alpha pro sometime this afternoon.

As far as the crossing over, I would like to get some advice on that issue. I want to have some nice mid-bass that is strong, and accurate. Something that when fully integrated actively, would combine with my Sierra-1's to make a nice 3-way that will have exceptionally good SQ from 60hz on up to 20khz. I am hoping that by adding a new mid-bass driver, such as the 2226, I can make these bookshelf Sierra-1's sound as good as the Sierra Towers.

I am open to any suggestions for a 12" driver! But would using a JBL 2225 not be better than any 12", outside of the AE TD12?

I can get the 2225's for $130 to $140 each, and am assuming that no 12" in that price range can touch the 2225. Is that not the case?

Also, what are the pro's & con's of a 12" versus a 15"?
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