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post #241 of 266 Old 03-25-2014, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks biggrin.gif

Protip: don't buy 5x8 sheets of veneer. I can get 2 4x8 sheets of veneer for significantly less than I can get 1 sheet of 5x8 plywood.

That's what I get for trying to murder less trees
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post #242 of 266 Old 04-08-2014, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
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So, annoyingly I'm getting held up trying to find veneer. These are the plans I have for the veneer (depending on the flitch width I can get):


I'm not sure which one I like the most. I either like the pattern on the top/bottom (10", 9", 7"), the pattern on the front (10", 7") or the pattern on the side (10", 7.5"). Overall I think 10 works the best but I can't really find anywhere with veneer like that. The rest are ok but one side isn't that great.

Where are you getting your veneers? I've tried 4 companies (tapeese, formwood, oakwoodveneer and veneersupplies) who either haven't responded or can't make component sizes wider than 6 inches.

I'm not sure why. My RF-83's have 10" wide veneer, and checking out some bigger subs online 10+ isn't that rare.
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post #243 of 266 Old 04-10-2014, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsho111 View Post

So, annoyingly I'm getting held up trying to find veneer. These are the plans I have for the veneer (depending on the flitch width I can get):


I'm not sure which one I like the most. I either like the pattern on the top/bottom (10", 9", 7"), the pattern on the front (10", 7") or the pattern on the side (10", 7.5"). Overall I think 10 works the best but I can't really find anywhere with veneer like that. The rest are ok but one side isn't that great.

Where are you getting your veneers? I've tried 4 companies (tapeese, formwood, oakwoodveneer and veneersupplies) who either haven't responded or can't make component sizes wider than 6 inches.

I'm not sure why. My RF-83's have 10" wide veneer, and checking out some bigger subs online 10+ isn't that rare.

 

Try GL Veneer.  They have a huge selection of 4'x8' and 4'x10' backed and unbacked hardwood veneers you could cut to the shape of your sub. They will ship to your local lumber yard. I'm local to them and usually handpick the veneers for my client's projects. 

 

http://www.glveneer.com/gallerySafari.html

 

Also try Austin Hardwood. They ship and have a great supply of exotic hard to find hardwoods in 4/Qtr you can cut into strips and use for accent lines:

 

http://austinhardwoodsonline.com/brochures/brochureentry/430/1197

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post #244 of 266 Old 04-10-2014, 03:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the tip, I sent them an email.

I also found certainlywood.com which has what I need, but it's raw veneer which would add probably too much complexity to the project (not like it doesn't have enough already)
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post #245 of 266 Old 04-12-2014, 04:25 AM
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Great project. Your attention to detail is amazing. Raw veneer isn't really all that hard. Little more work but sometimes it's worth it. I have found tjat you definitely have a larger selection of patterns. Just my 2 cents and I will go back to lurking now. smile.gif

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post #246 of 266 Old 04-15-2014, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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So I'm starting to lean towards just using raw veneer...and possibly making my own vacuum bag to do it, because why the hell not. Raw veneer is cheaper and I can get exactly what i want. It's also thicker than the 2 ply stuff I have

I haven't found too much info but I haven't quite decided on whether or not want to round over the edges.

Anyone know if raw flat cut veneer could be wrapped around a 3/4" roundover?
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post #247 of 266 Old 04-15-2014, 06:46 PM
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Yes you can do it but would need to soften the wood. Heat up the veneer with an iron. You don't happen to have a planer do you ?
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post #248 of 266 Old 04-15-2014, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Not a planar but I have access to a hand planer (or a belt sander/ random orbital sander)
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post #249 of 266 Old 04-15-2014, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsho111 View Post

Not a planar but I have access to a hand planer (or a belt sander/ random orbital sander)

Raw veneer is tricky to do. I tried twice and both times it bubbled up. I didn't use vacuum system. How much is your raw veneer ?

Maybe try to find someone near you who can plane solid wood down to thicker veneer and attach those. Pieces like this 7usa2ebu.jpg

I did that and it turned out well
ejugutaq.jpg
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post #250 of 266 Old 04-15-2014, 07:02 PM - Thread Starter
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The outside is around ~14 cubic feet and I'd obviously need some extra but the raw veneer I was checking out is 1/16" thick and it's 1-3 per square foot, so it should be under 100 bucks (I haven't done the exact math to see exactly how much I can get without too much scrap so it might be slightly different).

That veneer you pictured, was that the final thickness you ended up with? That looks like 3/8"!

I have a buddy who kinda does what you recommended when he does some plywood projects. To cover the edges he just trims up a thin piece off the face of the plywood
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post #251 of 266 Old 04-15-2014, 07:21 PM
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Yes 3/8" veneer. You plane down 3/4" solid wood. The cost would be similar using solid wood and you get these benefits. Can easily roundover edges , better finish , and way easier. If you make a mistake and chip an area no problem. If you have a guy who can plane the wood down its a much better way to go.
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post #252 of 266 Old 04-18-2014, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Still trying to figure out how I'm gonna finish this.

I'm leaning towards raw veneer since I can get exactly what I'm looking for but it's trickier to apply.

I would live to go with a vacuum bag setup but it's like 400 bucks for the cheapest thing you could get.

Anyone have any experience using cold press/weights for applying raw veneer??
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post #253 of 266 Old 04-18-2014, 09:00 PM
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I've done both vacuum pressing and cold pressing with platens and cauls.  For speakers, I prefer the latter.  Even better, I like using heat activated glues, as this is by far the simplest (albeit not the strongest).

 

There is a ton of information available in the link below as well as elsewhere on the web.

 

http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/faq-veneering.htm#VQ10

 

Good luck.

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post #254 of 266 Old 04-18-2014, 09:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Ya, I've pretty much read everything there is on that site and then some.

I would prefer to use heat activated glues but searching online people tend to avoid trying to iron on raw veneer. I would also run into other issues since I would need to veneer multiple pieces to each face and that doesn't seem to work to well when doing iron on veneer.

I think using cauls would be easier than using a vacuum press since the speaker already weighs a lot.
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post #255 of 266 Old 04-18-2014, 09:15 PM
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In brief, the advantage of cold press with platens and cauls is that you can easily oversize your veneer and then flush trim it perfectly once the glue has set.  

 

In a vacuum bag, you must either trim your veneer perfectly to size before pressing or you will crush the overhang and often this damage extends to your desired project.  V-bags are great for flat panels, less so for speakers.  You can make a V-bag platen to avoid this but it all becomes a PITA.

 

Hot glue is childs play.  You can still use raw veneer with the appropriate glue.  

 

If I'm being unclear, all of this will make perfect sense once you try each technique.  Cursing will follow but it's the best way to learn.

 

In any case, just like speaker building, everything is a compromise in veneering.

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post #256 of 266 Old 04-18-2014, 09:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Nope everything you said makes perfect sense.

If I was using raw veneer and iron on, how would you apply the pieces?

Would you place one piece of veneer, glue it up, then move on to the next one? How would you prevent gaps?

I'm starting to like the idea of cold press more and more. Not quite sure how that would work with rounded edges (still haven't completely taken rounding some edges off the table)
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post #257 of 266 Old 04-18-2014, 09:35 PM
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Ha, ha......welcome to Compromise Land.  If you are doing roundovers, you're back to V-bagging as the best approach (with caveats, of course).  With cold press, it's hard to apply sufficient pressure on the curves. In the V-bag, you're applying a uniform ~1400 pounds/square foot everywhere.  That's tough to replicate with platens, unless they conform to the roundovers.  You can use sandbags, ingenuity, etc. but here is where a V-bag would excel. The secret is to use an elegantly designed groove after the round over (to hide the mess).

 

With hot glue, since you're coating both substrate and veneer, you have some latitude with your approach to joining edges.  You can do pieces one at a time or simultaneously.  While molten, there is some limited ability to slide the pieces around.  Be fast!

 

There was an interesting build by another member that I'll link you to after posting this.  Not sure of where that project is at but it was another very old school, hide glue approach.  I have no experience with his approach, but it seemed to have great merit.

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post #258 of 266 Old 04-18-2014, 09:38 PM
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post #259 of 266 Old 04-19-2014, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Interesting, checking that out he seemed to run into the issue I was concerned with and that was getting gaps between the strips.

I'm leaning more and more towards using raw veneer and I'll probably just go with square edges.

If I pick up the raw veneer I can at least do some experimenting to see what works and If I really want rounded edges but can't do it with the veneer I can look at using hardwood corners and rounding them over
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post #260 of 266 Old 04-20-2014, 02:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Wassub, just wanna say thanks for the info since it's finally motivated me to get the ball rolling on this project again.

I'm gonna build a couple curved cauls myself (I already have plans for it and I'll throw pics up when I'm done with them), a slightly oversized 3/4" plywood platen, and I'm gonna make a couple clamp extensions as well.

I was planning to get started today and went to the hardware store to grab some supplies...only to find it closed because it's easter sunday! haha. Better luck next weekend
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post #261 of 266 Old 05-25-2014, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey everyone, been super busy with work so haven't made quite as much progress but I'm slowly working toward the finish line.

I got everything I need to wrap up the ports (basically just gluing them) as well as final assembly.

I have an email out to certainlywood about the veneer and I am going to go with raw veneer and the clamp method.

With that said I have made a handful of tools to help a bit (besides cutting the platen which I don't have a picture of)

DIY Cauls:
I cut some 1/8th and 1/16th strips to see what size curve I wanted. I tested this by putting the strip in the center of the 2x2 (which I made from ripping 2x4s in half) and clamping down the ends. I ended up going with a a little over 1/16th as anything more than that and I had to use a ton of pressure to clamp it:



Once I figured out which shim to go with I made the curve taking some scrap mdf pieces I had and clamping the ends together with the required final curve:

I used screws to hold it in place then in the center I pulled the 'curved' piece so it was flush with the front and clamped and screwed it in (I don't have a picture of this though).

This is what the finished template looked like:


After running that through the flush trim setup I had a nice curve to it. I then taped it to the 2x2 pieces I had and ran them through as well. TIP: when using tape to secure template pieces, which works great, if you are making double sided tape by looping a piece back on itself make sure to have pieces running perpendicular and parallel to both pieces as it will want to 'walk' a bit.
Before:

After:


And after running all 6 pieces:
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post #262 of 266 Old 05-25-2014, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I also needed a few more 36 inch clamps and decided to make the worlds most complicated clamp extensions haha. The plan was to get some threaded knobs and an insert that I could run through the clamp to secure it in an extension.

I took some of the extra 2x2s I had and started by dado'ing out the center to fit the clamp rail:


I lined up where I wanted the clamps to sit (so I could get a ~35 clamp) and then drilled a 1/4 hole through the top and bottom:


Then on the other side I drilled holes to accommodate the insert and the top chunk of the knob. I had to recess the knob a bit since it would sit flush with the insert to hold it in place:


I had to drill a couple holes to hold the clamp stop:


Then just glued some 8-32 inserts into the other piece and that's it.

This is how everything is held together:

I picked up an 8-32 rod and threaded knobs (and used some of my extra 8-32 inserts), but them to length and secured them using some loctite.

The finished extension:


I have 2 36" quick clamps as well so in theory I could make an 75" clamp
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post #263 of 266 Old 05-26-2014, 06:09 AM
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Nice DIY of long clamps, can buy short clamps at cheaper price with this DIY method
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post #264 of 266 Old 05-26-2014, 06:12 AM
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Nicely done! Very innovative. I did the same thing except I just wrapped the two clamps together with heavy plastic wrap!

I am loving my two uxl's. Can't wait for more parts to come in for two more.
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post #265 of 266 Old 05-27-2014, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsho111 View Post


The finished extension:


I have 2 36" quick clamps as well so in theory I could make an 75" clamp

This is cool. Seems like you could just use a longer board and make an L at the end with a block of wood. That way you wouldn't need 2 clamps.
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post #266 of 266 Old 05-29-2014, 10:51 PM - Thread Starter
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That could work but it's nice being able to double the length of one clamp instead of just slightly extending another (unless you made several L blocks).

Anyone ever deal with 1/16th veneer? I have that option as well as the 1/42 stuff. The fact it's so thick is pretty tempting since it should be a whole bunch easier to work with.

In case anyone's curious, these are the veneers I'm leaning towards:
http://www.certainlywood.com/detail.cfm?ID=10568
http://www.certainlywood.com/detail.cfm?ID=12629
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