Still can't decide what driver to use... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 08-05-2013, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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So after weeks of reading almost every thread on AVS that contained any reference to the IXL-18, UXL-18, SI 18D2, and Dayton 18HO, I still cannot decide what to use. Here are the basic parameters I'm working with:


1. I cannot do dual subs. Definitive no from wife so it's just not an option.

2. Limited enclosure size, max size of 4 cubic feet of internal volume.

3. Could do dual-opposed (in a total of 4 cubic feet) but not sure it would help much at all.

4. Max SPL is of no interest to me, low distortion and deep extension are


I've been looking at all the measurements on data-bass but could use some help understanding the max burst, basic response, and maximum long-term output graphs. It seems like max burst is peak db for a short time, like a single explosion or something along those lines and max long-term is maximum spl over a long period of time. So then how does basic response relate to those three? Also, when comparing the Dayton in a 4 foot enclosure to the UXL 18 has much higher spl than the dayton or the SI when looking at the system list but on the charts has lower spl. Basically, I'm lost and confused smile.gif

The IXL-18, SI, and Dayton are, for my purposes, the same price so cost between them is irrelevant. The UXL-18 is almost double the cost of the other 3 and I could definitely afford to do so but since I can't seem to interpret the graphs I don't know what I would gain.

Any advice that would help me clear my head would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 17 Old 08-05-2013, 11:05 AM
 
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For value nothing even compares to the SI. The IXL(green) is like .5 dB louder, for like $80.00 more, and the UXL is about 2.5 dB better, for $310.00 more. assuming si is $30.00 for shipping.

You can't even perceive .5 dB louder. The dayton isn't worth it to compare as it's basically identical to the IXL and SI.



Also the SI requires less power, so you could use a cheaper amp. This graphs shows 400 watts to the SI, 800 to the IXL and 1200 to the UXL.
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post #3 of 17 Old 08-05-2013, 11:10 AM
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I'm confused, you state max SPL is of no interest, but then your second paragraph is completely concerned with the SPL capabilities of each driver?

With any one of these sealed setups you are going to need to measure and possibly EQ a lot to get the flat deep extension. I dont remember the specifics from your other thread, but a miniDSP and at least 1000 watt amp would be needed to get the most from this. The drivers all have fairly similar capability, so you are really over thinking things at this point.
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post #4 of 17 Old 08-05-2013, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys
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Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

I'm confused, you state max SPL is of no interest, but then your second paragraph is completely concerned with the SPL capabilities of each driver?

With any one of these sealed setups you are going to need to measure and possibly EQ a lot to get the flat deep extension. I dont remember the specifics from your other thread, but a miniDSP and at least 1000 watt amp would be needed to get the most from this. The drivers all have fairly similar capability, so you are really over thinking things at this point.

The reason I was asking about SPL is concern that if I wanted it to be flat really low, like 15hz, I might need to EQ some of the higher frequencies down to flatten it out. So if there was a significantly lower spl with one of the drivers it might be of concern by removing headroom higher up but it looks like I really am over thinking. SI D2 it is!
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post #5 of 17 Old 08-05-2013, 11:39 AM
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What I was kind of getting at is if SPL isnt that big of a concern, there are other ways to get much better extension in 4 ft3



You would definitely need a 14hz high pass filter for that box though.
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post #6 of 17 Old 08-05-2013, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I had thought about doing a passive radiator design similar to yours. My only concern is with group delay issues. I also had a commercial sub (Def Tech Supercube Reference) that was IIRC a 14" with dual PR's that I wasn't too thrilled with.
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post #7 of 17 Old 08-05-2013, 12:01 PM
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The deftech is just a poorly done box, they sacrificed every aspect of performance for size.

Group delay in the 15hz tuned box above wouldnt even be a factor until below 20hz. At that point there isnt even sound anymore, it's just a tactile sensation.
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post #8 of 17 Old 08-05-2013, 12:06 PM
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If you can only have 1 sub, put the best driver in it that you can afford. Something with more excursion like the UXL will give you a bit more deep bass obviously, which is something you will want as much as you can get in a sealed design. With its greater BL, it may offer better cone control and thus sound quality as well. Who cares about amplifier power, amp power is so cheap. Go for the UXL.
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post #9 of 17 Old 08-05-2013, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ View Post

If you can only have 1 sub, put the best driver in it that you can afford. Something with more excursion like the UXL will give you a bit more deep bass obviously, which is something you will want as much as you can get in a sealed design. With its greater BL, it may offer better cone control and thus sound quality as well. Who cares about amplifier power, amp power is so cheap. Go for the UXL.

100% agree

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #10 of 17 Old 08-05-2013, 03:48 PM
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Do one of Erich's 4 cubic foot flat packs fit the uxl?
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post #11 of 17 Old 08-05-2013, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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It does if you remove the gasket that comes with the UXL. If i went that route I would probably just widen the cutout a little to keep the gasket in place.
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post #12 of 17 Old 08-05-2013, 04:04 PM
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I have a UXL-18 in a 4cu ft flat pack with the Dayton baffle. It is a flush fit if you take the rubber gasket off. Apparently the SI baffle might be slightly bigger, which would allow you to keep the gasket on.



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post #13 of 17 Old 08-05-2013, 05:03 PM
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The greater Xmax of the UXL will allow for greater low end equilization (shelf filter or Linkwitz transform) to bring up the low end (max eq around 10 Hz). The need to do so is entirely room dependent as pressure vessel gain can help offset the natural roll off of sealed designs.

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post #14 of 17 Old 08-06-2013, 07:34 AM
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NWC, what would you use for dsp at 10hz, my understanding is the minidsp does not allow filters to be applied that low? I hope I'm wrong and there is an affordable dsp option!
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post #15 of 17 Old 08-06-2013, 11:13 AM
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"What I was kind of getting at is if SPL isnt that big of a concern, there are other ways to get much better extension in 4 ft3"

jay, with a small enclosure size like that a low tuning causes two problems:
1. the port has to be small in order to keep length reasonable, which causes chuffing and compression.
2. the port resonance ends up being close to or within the passband.

port velocity is kept in check with a sufficiently large port, then the cabinet is increased in size until the first port resonance is pushed up and out of the passband because as the cab volume increases the port length decreases for a given tuning (which is actually somewhat higher than the low pass filter target frequency; ideally 2x or so)

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #16 of 17 Old 08-06-2013, 11:18 AM
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if you jam them in there, you could do dual si ht 18" in 4 cubic feet sealed (dual 2 ohm drivers wire for 4 ohms per driver). one driver per channel on an inuke6000dsp will get you right around 114db at 20hz in winisd. of course you would make quite a bit of use of the dsp shelving function in the amp to get a flat response. q = 0.88, which is high, but not out of the realm of reason for ht subs.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #17 of 17 Old 08-06-2013, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"What I was kind of getting at is if SPL isnt that big of a concern, there are other ways to get much better extension in 4 ft3"

jay, with a small enclosure size like that a low tuning causes two problems:
1. the port has to be small in order to keep length reasonable, which causes chuffing and compression.
2. the port resonance ends up being close to or within the passband.

port velocity is kept in check with a sufficiently large port, then the cabinet is increased in size until the first port resonance is pushed up and out of the passband because as the cab volume increases the port length decreases for a given tuning (which is actually somewhat higher than the low pass filter target frequency; ideally 2x or so)

That winISD sim was for a PR build using a pair of CSS AP12's loaded with 855g mass each. With a 14hz HPF the PR's would max out at 460 watts. F10 would be just under 14hz.

Edit: post #5 shows sim
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