Help needed for a 15 hertz tuned box for the new alpine type r. 15" - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 32 Old 08-07-2013, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
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This is for a dedicated home theater. I have been looking all over Internet for specs and even called alpine support. Which was a wasted 5 minutes as they did not give me a recommended box size to go that low. I have an iPad and cain t download the free winisd software to use it.
Anyway, this will be used with a pioneer 1021 reciev which has a lfe per out. I will be using a crown xls 1500 to drive the 2 alpine type r sws-1522 which are DVc and 2 ohms. So I am looking for best way to wire them up and best box designed for a box I am opened to all ideas. Room size is 16 by 22. I am just wanting the subs to handle the bass and I am trying to get where u can feel the explosions.
Thanks
Gerald
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post #2 of 32 Old 08-07-2013, 08:45 AM
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I just built a new enclosure using two SWR-1542's wired in series for a 4ohm load.

Enclosure size is 8.5ft3 with a slot port 3" x 10" x 37" tuned to 15hz powered by a Crown XLS 1500.

Cone excursion is fine down to 13hz, so I didn't see a need for a HPF.


Your 1522's are obviously 2ohm so I would wire them in series for a 8ohm load bridged to the Crown for 1050 watts
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post #3 of 32 Old 08-07-2013, 02:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply

How are u liking the sound from ur box ? Ur build sounds exactly like what I was planning to go with as far as frequency tuning and we have the same amp. How are u liking the crown amp? Does it drive them good?
Thanks
Gerald
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post #4 of 32 Old 08-07-2013, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
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What would be the difference between me using 1- 15" sub at 1500 watts vs 2-15" subs at 1050 watts shared? Just curious
Thanks
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post #5 of 32 Old 08-07-2013, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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One more thing. Will I get enough pressure from 2 -15" subs to feel explosions in my chest ? Just curious.
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post #6 of 32 Old 08-07-2013, 11:50 PM - Thread Starter
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can anyone say which way to face the subs? floor is carpet.
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post #7 of 32 Old 08-08-2013, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airtimehocutt View Post

What would be the difference between me using 1- 15" sub at 1500 watts vs 2-15" subs at 1050 watts shared? Just curious
Thanks

Using 2 subs gets you more roughly 6db's more than a single with the Alpine. 1500 watts is too much power for one 1522. You risk burning it up. I've read about pushing it to 1000 watts but that may be slightly pushing it as well.

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Originally Posted by airtimehocutt View Post

One more thing. Will I get enough pressure from 2 -15" subs to feel explosions in my chest ? Just curious.

Too tough to answer this question. Sub placement and how the sub performs in your space will have a lot to say about the "pressure in your chest" feeling. You could do separate enclosures-one for each 1522 and put one on either side of your room.

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can anyone say which way to face the subs? floor is carpet.

Mine are downfiring. Just make sure there is 4-5" between the sub and the floor.
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post #8 of 32 Old 08-08-2013, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by platoon2063 View Post

Using 2 subs gets you more roughly 6db's more than a single with the Alpine. 1500 watts is too much power for one 1522. You risk burning it up. I've read about pushing it to 1000 watts but that may be slightly pushing it as well.

I push my SWR1242's with 1000 watts each and they perform very well like that. They never sound stressed even with the lowest bass.
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post #9 of 32 Old 08-08-2013, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airtimehocutt View Post

One more thing. Will I get enough pressure from 2 -15" subs to feel explosions in my chest ? Just curious.

Assuming your room is sealed with 8' ceilings then a pair of those 15" Alpines in vented enclosures should be more than enough for most people. In a 5.6ft^3 vented box with a 20 Hz tune a single driver will hit 112dBs down to 20Hz and 104dBs at 15 Hz. You can tune it lower, but at the expense of output. So for a 15Hz tune you're down to 108dBs at 20Hz and 107dBs at 15Hz. This is the first I've ever tried modeling a vented enclosure so take my numbers with a grain of salt. Lower frequencies are more associated with overall pressure and not chest pounding bass so I'm assuming you don't need to plumb the depths of ULF.
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can anyone say which way to face the subs? floor is carpet.

This is all room dependent, but I've heard bottom facing would give the flattest response followed by rear facing. Again this is just a generalization and may be different in your room. Either way, I think the rule of thumb is to have at least as much distance between the vent opening and the wall/floor as the diameter of the vent. so a 10" diameter vent will need to have the opening at least 10" from the wall/floor. You can always point the opening upwards or into the room I believe.

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Originally Posted by platoon2063 View Post

Using 2 subs gets you more roughly 6db's more than a single with the Alpine.

You only get up to 6dB increase if you double the amount of drivers AND doubling the power at the same time. This holds true for all drivers, not just Alpine. Which he does is not doing. He is doubling the drivers, but REDUCING the power.
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Originally Posted by platoon2063 View Post

1500 watts is too much power for one 1522. You risk burning it up. I've read about pushing it to 1000 watts but that may be slightly pushing it as well.

Agreed. I would just build a pair of enclosures and run them each at 4 Ohms connected to the amp in stereo.
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post #10 of 32 Old 08-08-2013, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by tsloms View Post

I push my SWR1242's with 1000 watts each and they perform very well like that. They never sound stressed even with the lowest bass.

You would need to clarify you enclosure size and type. In the recommended 1.75ft^3, sealed box or 2.9ft^3, vented box 1000W is fine. He just needs a HPF for the vented box to control excursion. I'm giving mine about 1200W a piece with two in a 3.3ft^3 sealed box, but I haven't tested their limits yet. Just got them hooked up last night. Haven't had a chance to give them a workout since it was already late.
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post #11 of 32 Old 08-08-2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

Either way, I think the rule of thumb is to have at least as much distance between the vent opening and the wall/floor as the diameter of the vent. so a 10" diameter vent will need to have the opening at least 10" from the wall/floor. You can always point the opening upwards or into the room I believe.
You only get up to 6dB increase if you double the amount of drivers AND doubling the power at the same time. This holds true for all drivers, not just Alpine. Which he does is not doing. He is doubling the drivers, but REDUCING the power.
Agreed. I would just build a pair of enclosures and run them each at 4 Ohms connected to the amp in stereo.

I've read something similar regarding distance from vent opening to floor. That being said, the largest opening diameter or width will probably be only 4" so the OP should be fine with 4" from the floor (my enclosure sits 4" above the floor with 2 downfiring 1542's and a slot port 3" in width with no problems).

I apologize for leaving out the part about doubling of the power in order to gain additional db's. However, I just ran the scenario through WinISD and one 1522 @ 775w comes out roughly 4 db's less than two 1522's @ 1050w total.
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post #12 of 32 Old 08-08-2013, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post

You would need to clarify you enclosure size and type. In the recommended 1.75ft^3, sealed box or 2.9ft^3, vented box 1000W is fine. He just needs a HPF for the vented box to control excursion. I'm giving mine about 1200W a piece with two in a 3.3ft^3 sealed box, but I haven't tested their limits yet. Just got them hooked up last night. Haven't had a chance to give them a workout since it was already late.

I have my pair of the 1242's in a sealed 3.5ft^3 enclosure. They have been able to take the full output of an EP2500 and XTI2002 at separate times.
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post #13 of 32 Old 08-08-2013, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by platoon2063 View Post

I've read something similar regarding distance from vent opening to floor. That being said, the largest opening diameter or width will probably be only 4" so the OP should be fine with 4" from the floor (my enclosure sits 4" above the floor with 2 downfiring 1542's and a slot port 3" in width with no problems).

I apologize for leaving out the part about doubling of the power in order to gain additional db's. However, I just ran the scenario through WinISD and one 1522 @ 775w comes out roughly 4 db's less than two 1522's @ 1050w total.

Thanks for those numbers. In the OP's situation though, he was going from 1550W to one driver down to 1050W to two drivers. The difference is at most 1.5dBs in favor of two drivers at 20Hz. above and below that, the difference is even less. That might be incorrect on my part though as I have no experience modeling drivers in vented enclosures. That being said, a single driver with that much power in a vented box will die a horrible death due to excursion limits unless he keeps it under 2.4ft^3 which would not make sense to do.
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post #14 of 32 Old 08-08-2013, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by tsloms View Post

I have my pair of the 1242's in a sealed 3.5ft^3 enclosure. They have been able to take the full output of an EP2500 and XTI2002 at separate times.

Cool, very similar to my build. I have four more drivers sitting around waiting for the boxes to be built. Two more of the 1522Ds and a pair of 15D2s. Unfortunately, I just dislocated my shoulder this past Sunday and have an appointment to go see an orthopedic specialist this afternoon to see if we can get it put back in place without surgery. Those additional drivers will have to wait at least a few weeks before I can start thinking about building the boxes for them.
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post #15 of 32 Old 08-08-2013, 01:53 PM
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I was stating numbers strictly on the basis of using a vented enclosure. Anything over 1000w per driver and you can kiss that driver goodbye. I don't have any experience using the Alpine in a sealed box.
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post #16 of 32 Old 08-09-2013, 10:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the replies. I think I am gonna do 2 channels in stereo at 4 ohms. Which is 525watts per channel and tune down to 15hz. I will try the boxes firing down and into back of couch I think these subs are rated at 750 watts rms and 2000 peak so I hope they can take it. Box will be 24" by 48" by 18". Minus port volume bracing and speaker that should get me right at 8 cubic feet net. Can someone model this for me and get the port size. Looking for an L shaped port. I was thinking 1.75" by 18 by 43" long. That look right to yaw?4
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post #17 of 32 Old 08-09-2013, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone heard of any problems with the crown xls1500 not going below 20hz? Some type of internal filer?
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post #18 of 32 Old 08-10-2013, 06:56 AM
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Why are you guys using these slightly more expensive Alpines instead of something from the likes of Dayton or Stereo Integrity? I would imagine that for the price of one Alpine 1522 you could get two Dayton HO's or HF's?
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post #19 of 32 Old 08-10-2013, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airtimehocutt View Post

Thanks for all the replies. I think I am gonna do 2 channels in stereo at 4 ohms. Which is 525watts per channel and tune down to 15hz. I will try the boxes firing down and into back of couch I think these subs are rated at 750 watts rms and 2000 peak so I hope they can take it. Box will be 24" by 48" by 18". Minus port volume bracing and speaker that should get me right at 8 cubic feet net. Can someone model this for me and get the port size. Looking for an L shaped port. I was thinking 1.75" by 18 by 43" long. That look right to yaw?4

Are the dimensions for the box external or internal? If they are internal then you are well above your goal of 8 cu ft. If they are external then you are closer. I came up with 8.5 cu ft which still works well for your goal of a 15hz tune. The slot port dimensions look good.
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post #20 of 32 Old 08-10-2013, 07:05 AM
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Why are you guys using these slightly more expensive Alpines instead of something from the likes of Dayton or Stereo Integrity? I would imagine that for the price of one Alpine 1522 you could get two Dayton HO's or HF's?

I believe the OP already owns the Alpine drivers.
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post #21 of 32 Old 08-10-2013, 07:09 AM
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I believe the OP already owns the Alpine drivers.

So how do these Alpine 1522's compare to the Dayton HO15 or HF15, or even the UM15 from Dayton?
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post #22 of 32 Old 08-10-2013, 11:20 AM
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So how do these Alpine 1522's compare to the Dayton HO15 or HF15, or even the UM15 from Dayton?

According to WinISD the Alpines should outperform the HO by a couple of db's and they can be put in a slightly smaller vented enclosure. The HF needs a much larger enclosure.....not sure about the UM. The SI looks like it outperforms the Alpine by a couple of db's in a similar enclosure.

I picked up the Alpine 1542's at a good price from a dealer that was dropping the line. They can be had for about $2-225 each msrp. Had I not purchased them a a reduced price I would have probably gone with the SI 15. Similar output and xmax between the two.
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post #23 of 32 Old 08-11-2013, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry external dimension using 3/4 mdf. I bought these alpines for my avalanche truck but have decided to go another route with it. I paid 199 shipped from amazon for 1 alpine typre r 1522. These r the newest models also Not sure what those Dayton's cost.
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post #24 of 32 Old 08-11-2013, 07:42 AM
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what internal volume are your trying for ?

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"Too much is almost enough. Anything in life worth doing is worth overdoing. Moderation is for cowards."
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post #25 of 32 Old 08-11-2013, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by airtimehocutt View Post

These r the newest models also.

Just to clarify, Alpine has not updated the 15" Type R yet. The ones you and I have are the older models. That's why Alpine removed the spec sheet from their site. The sheet contains data for all the Type R models which are incorrect for the newer smaller drivers that have already been redesigned. They have no planned release date for the new 15" Type R drivers yet. You can tell by the Type R logo on the driver cone. The new models have a smaller logo near the bottom of the driver while the older models have the large logo in the middle of the cone.
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post #26 of 32 Old 08-24-2013, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok. Here is where I am at
24 by 18 by 48 box. External dimensions. 3/4 mdf Slot port 1.5 by 22.5 by 45 long. This sound ok?
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post #27 of 32 Old 08-24-2013, 06:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Mfusick I was reading ur build thread but never finished it. How did urs tune out?
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post #28 of 32 Old 08-24-2013, 11:46 AM
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That looks good. Looks like your box is 8.5ft3 tuned to about 15hz. You are using two drivers, right?

If you are using the Crown xls1500, it does have a HPF set at 20hz. It is a 24db rolloff. I confirmed this with two different techs at Crown. You can configure WinISD for your setup and add a HPF at 20hz to get an idea of what your setup will do (minus the rooms effect).
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post #29 of 32 Old 08-24-2013, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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2 seperate boxes. 1 driver per box.

I have apple computers and winisd does not work with that.

So will I need to add anything to protect my subs since the crown has the built in 20 hertz filter. Hoping to try one box out tomorrow and finish up with the second box Monday.
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post #30 of 32 Old 08-25-2013, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Do I need to set the hpf or lpf ? I will be feeding it off the sub out on my pioneer 1021k.
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